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Aghrrr! The contraditctions!

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  • Aghrrr! The contraditctions!

    OK, I'm confused about a lot of things, and I'm hoping someone can help dispel the confusion.

    On one hand, one of the most common pieces of advice here seems to be "listen to your body" (if not the number one piece of advice). And it totally makes sense. On the other hand, though, IF-ing is often recommended, as is "eat more". Well, by definition, isn't IF-ing not listening to your body? The body keeps sending you "I'm hungry" signals, but you don't satisfy it. How does this fit into the picture?

    Same goes for eating more. Ever since I began concentrating on getting more fat into my diet (it's at about 60% now), I feel less hungry throughout the day. The fat satiates me to the point where eating a hand-sized piece of salmon with some stir-fried veggies fills me up for 4-5 hours, sometimes longer. So I end up eating about 1300 calories a day. Not because I'm consciously trying to restrict myself, but because I'm simply not hungry for more. If I were to eat more, I would be forcing my body into something it doesn't seem to want. Again, how does this fit into the concept of "listening to your body"?

    And finally, the entire starvation mode thing. I just don't get it. If it does exist, then how come eating extremely low calories works for many people as a weight loss method, and why is IF being recommended as a good way to battle those last few extra pounds? Wouldn't both those things send you into starvation mode, stalling weight loss? And if it doesn't exist, then why is the common advice for those eating lower calories and not losing weight is "you're not eating enough"?

  • #2
    Tricky, huh?

    It all seems to come from those cases where your body's signals are damaged, so the message might not get through. E.g. the old example of are you hungry or are you actually thirsty?

    As for IF, actually I didn't find what you say. By the time I tried IF, I could distinguish between "FEED ME" hunger signals and "might be nice to get something, if you've a chance". All my IFs have been ended when I got a FEED ME signal. Usually after 18-20 hours. IF vs starvation mode - from what I recall, you may not average out at lower calories; the aim of the fast is to change hormone release.

    Fat satiation - I used to track on fitday, and came out quite a few times in the 900-1300 calorie range. I don't have the answers there - I have not lost weight but I have improved health.

    My own quick thoughts / experiences - someone clever will be along shortly to help out

    Comment


    • #3
      I would only say "listen to your body" in regards to how a particular format of paleo/primal is working for your overall health and energy. Indeed, sometimes we must not listen to hunger signals if we want to do something specific like IFing or overfeeding. You don't have to listen to hunger signals. Sometimes they are better ignored.
      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

      Comment


      • #4
        NYCNoir,

        You are right. There is still too much confusion. Nutrition is a tough subject. IMO, if you follow Mark's Carb Chart, you will lose weight sooner or later. Plateau or no plateau. Be patient and it works in the end.



        Rest of the file here:
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...mal-blueprint/

        PS) My son sent me an email today that revealed his secret to avoid eating when he had a Hunger Attack at the store. Just eat a handful of raw almonds. BAM! Hunger is gone like a miracle. However they must be raw, roasted almonds don't work.

        Grizz

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        • #5
          I've not formally or intentionally IF'd yet, but I have skipped a meal here and there, because I simply didn't feel that hungry. I'm not convinced IF'ing should be done in a "white knuckle/ignore your body's pleas for food" kinda way. That seems like a body that isn't yet trusting that you'll feed it well overall.

          Like you, I'm finding that some days I'm just not that hungry. I'm not tracking calories at all, my weight loss has completely stopped (at a place where I'm happy for it to stabilize)....I bet some days I take in only 1000 calories, another day I might take in 2000. I feel like I've reached an equilibrium where I can trust my body's signals (vs the days when I thought my body was saying "Must have milk chocolate").
          Liz.

          Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
          Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

          Comment


          • #6
            I am an accidental IF'er too. I fI am not hungry for a meal when it is time for tha tmeal, I skip it. Sometimes I eat breakfast and sometimes I don't. I listen to my body to tell me I am hungry. Now, if I just ate, espseically if it was a "20%" type thing, and my body wants more I may ignore it because I know it is not real hunger.

            I am also a handful of raw almonds kind of person. I will eat 5-10 somedays and then be bale to go another 3-5 hours before eating. Amazing thing that is.
            Meghan

            My MDA journal

            Primal Ponderings- my blog- finally added some food pron :P

            And best of all my Body Fat Makeover!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NutMeg View Post
              I am an accidental IF'er too. I fI am not hungry for a meal when it is time for tha tmeal, I skip it. Sometimes I eat breakfast and sometimes I don't. I listen to my body to tell me I am hungry. Now, if I just ate, espseically if it was a "20%" type thing, and my body wants more I may ignore it because I know it is not real hunger.

              I am also a handful of raw almonds kind of person. I will eat 5-10 somedays and then be bale to go another 3-5 hours before eating. Amazing thing that is.
              I used to be, but I'm a bit like Nat when it comes to nuts - I can't just stick at 5, 10 or so, the whole bag'll be gone in about 10 minutes!
              La tristesse durera toujours...

              Comment


              • #8
                I find that my body seems to be different each day. Some days I need 2000 calories, some days I am not overly hungry or I IF and I only need 1200. Usually a day after I ate low calories, I find myself 'foraging' in the kitchen more, so it must be adjusting on it's own. It also adjusts really well to my activity levels now.

                I usually use dinner as my regulating meal. If I have not eaten much all day, I tend to eat more at dinner (naturally). If I was slow moving all day, not overly hungry, I eat a light dinner. Breakfast and lunch tend to be the meals I fast through when I am not hungry. Seems to fit with my metabolism and habits. I have found myself shifting to more like 2 meals a day quite often, so I am learning to increase my serving size to take in enough food. If I don't, then the next day the 'foraging in the kitchen all day' happens again...lol.

                If I go too many days in lower calories, my energy does start to fade. I am looking to lose a few more lbs, but not at the expense of energy.

                I do not fast on a schedule, I do the 'listen to your body' thing. If I get up in the morning and am famished, I eat. If I get up and my hunger is meh, or non existent, I go work out or I skip the meal. Usually if I workout, I am famished in an hr, and then I eat.

                I do notice my signals get crossed when I have been eating too many carbs again. If I have let things creep up, have been drinking alcohol too often, then my hunger signals get mixed up. So I try and watch for this as well.
                Erin
                Daily Vlogs
                Primal Pets Blog

                Comment


                • #9
                  it really is all about taking primal, LEARNING about why evolution works the way it does, why food is healthy and nutrient dense, why we need healthy food and then finding what works FOR YOU. it isnt calories, it isnt fasting, it i listening to your body, feeling your body, experiencing hunger and satiety, energy and sleepiness, sunny days and cold rain... all of it.

                  if you still dont think you 'get it' then read more. not about diet, but about anthropology, aging, nutrition
                  Get on my Level
                  http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IF fasting ROCKS...... to set yourself up to IF, ingest lots of good fats with the last meal..... Ie: grassfed beef, coconut oil, free range/organic poultry and lots of veggies. Break fast with coconut oil.... = MAGIC.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you're hungry - eat. If you're not hungry - don't. If people are telling you to eat more, I would guess it's because you're either
                      a) just starting out, so eating more fat, veg and protein will keep you satiated
                      b) trying to gain weight, so people are telling you to eat more protein when lifting heavy - which is entirely goal dependent.

                      If you starve yourself, you're going to lose weight. That's what Weight Watchers is, and it definitely works... for a while. However most (almost all?) people on WW tend to keep coming back after they regain the weight. It's actually a great business model!

                      Interesting links about starvation mode:
                      http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/...tion-mode.html
                      http://stunteating.com/2010/06/02/th...arvation-mode/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NorthernMonkeyGirl View Post
                        It all seems to come from those cases where your body's signals are damaged, so the message might not get through. E.g. the old example of are you hungry or are you actually thirsty?
                        Yep, I had it trick me that way many times! Now I always drink a glass of water before I eat. Half the times I no longer want to eat afterwards.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                          You are right. There is still too much confusion. Nutrition is a tough subject. IMO, if you follow Mark's Carb Chart, you will lose weight sooner or later. Plateau or no plateau. Be patient and it works in the end.
                          See Grizz, that's what's confusing. I've been in "weight Loss sweet spot" for 6 months, and in keto for close to a month now. Nothing has changed as far as weight goes. And right now I'm not sure whether I should up my calories, cut my calories, eat more fat, eat even less carbs, or simply keep everything where it is and give it time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NutMeg View Post
                            I am also a handful of raw almonds kind of person.
                            You're my kind of person then, I carry almonds around with me all the time. Sometimes a dozen is enough to keep me satiated for hours.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, I don't think listening to your body and IFing are in any way contradictory. Sometimes I wake up ravenously hungry. If I had planned an IF that day, I'd just scrap my plans and fry up some eggs. Other times, I wake up not hungry at all and just go till lunch - an 18 hr IF. This doesn't happen right away at all, it takes a month or three. Nobody recommends IF for brand new PBers, either, for just this reason - your body won't tell you "I've had plenty" until you get your hormones (insulin and the other metabolic hormones of course) back working like they are designed to.

                              As for starvation mode and feeling full, I haven't had any experiences or problems with that. I don't actually believe in starvation mode - starving people get pretty darn skinny before they die (sorry). It is definitely true that you tend to hold on to water for periods of time and that weight loss measured in pounds is not that predictable because your water weight fluctuates quite a bit. It may be true to some extent for women, but I've never experienced anything like starvation mode.
                              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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