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  • Going dairy-free: Anyone who tried experienced any noticeable differences?

    So I've been listening to Robb Wolf's podcasts which are fantastic. His number one advice is to give up dairy and grains which seem to be the answer to most problems. I'd like to try giving up dairy- anyone have any advice on what I should expect? Understand that it will be different for everyone.
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    www.pantrybites.com
    Real Good Primal Food

  • #2
    Originally posted by pantrybites View Post
    So I've been listening to Robb Wolf's podcasts which are fantastic. His number one advice is to give up dairy and grains which seem to be the answer to most problems. I'd like to try giving up dairy- anyone have any advice on what I should expect? Understand that it will be different for everyone.
    Maybe you'll bias the experiment by your expectations. :-)

    As to the question in the title - nothing I'm aware of. But ask me again in a month or so - I was thinking of dropping it out again to see.

    I shouldn't be surprised if I had problems, as I've been told that as a baby milk would sometimes make me sick. However, I don't seem to find any difference currently with or without it.

    It's difficult to know, because problems with your stomach as a baby could be down to cereals, since one of the first things mothers used to be told to give children was "baby cereal". I'm told I couldn't take orange juice either - again a strong recommendation at the time. My mother went to the doctor and he told her to give me rosehip syrup instead. I was fine on that. I guess it could well have actually been gluten screwing with my stomach causing problems with other foods - at the bottom of it all, so to speak.

    I'm pretty sure I'm not good on grains. I've never had an allergy test, but I feel awfully bad if I have a beer or two - and it's not just the alcohol! Beer will also give me a sneezing fit, as will porridge. Bread has made me literally throw up on occasion. None of these effects is invariable for me, but they seem like definite reactions.

    I sort of think that dairy may be in there in the Paleo "package" not because of its inherent qualities but because it makes a tidy package. We know prehistoric man didn't eat grain (rather didn't eat much grain - some did gather some), and we know he didn't eat dairy products. Voila! You have your "narrative". It's persuasive, of course, because: (a) farmers tend to be shorter than hunters (not invariably but on the whole); (b) they're rather less healthy; (c) we know some people do have definite allergic reactions to both foods mentioned.

    But because it all makes a tidy narrative doesn't make it definitively true. Problems with milk could be down to other factors. If someone definitively does have problems with milk, maybe it's down to the fact that it's pasteurized, or that it's from A1 cows ...

    Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.

    Robb does sometimes speak of lectins being present in milk. On the other hand, they're there in nuts, too ... which are, nevertheless, in the Paleo Diet, owing to the fact that prehistoric people gathered them.

    So I don't know - try dropping it out for a month or two and then "challenging" yourself with some. If you want to be rigorous you have to omit butter, too, because it has some dairy proteins in it. Use olive oil, coconut oil, goose fat, or whatever instead.

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    • #3
      I still eat butter and cream - but cut out milk / cheese about 5 years ago. Removed all grains from my diet November 09. By February '10, the asthma I've suffered from since I was 3 years old was controlled - without steroid inhalers any longer. So - big results.

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      • #4
        My personal experience was within 2 weeks of cutting out cheese, whole milk, cream and yogurt:

        1) the definition on my abs became clearer

        2) don't feel as bloated

        3) less prone to weight fluctuations

        I still eat plenty of Grassfed butter though.

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        • #5
          I cut out most dairy ( still occasionally use small amounts of goat cheese, parmesan, raw milk cheese and butter) and have no issues. I don't even miss it.
          sigpicGustofson on Health - " I eat bacon, a whole damn plate!"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lewis View Post
            Maybe you'll bias the experiment by your expectations. :-)

            As to the question in the title - nothing I'm aware of. But ask me again in a month or so - I was thinking of dropping it out again to see.

            I shouldn't be surprised if I had problems, as I've been told that as a baby milk would sometimes make me sick. However, I don't seem to find any difference currently with or without it.

            It's difficult to know, because problems with your stomach as a baby could be down to cereals, since one of the first things mothers used to be told to give children was "baby cereal". I'm told I couldn't take orange juice either - again a strong recommendation at the time. My mother went to the doctor and he told her to give me rosehip syrup instead. I was fine on that. I guess it could well have actually been gluten screwing with my stomach causing problems with other foods - at the bottom of it all, so to speak.

            I'm pretty sure I'm not good on grains. I've never had an allergy test, but I feel awfully bad if I have a beer or two - and it's not just the alcohol! Beer will also give me a sneezing fit, as will porridge. Bread has made me literally throw up on occasion. None of these effects is invariable for me, but they seem like definite reactions.

            I sort of think that dairy may be in there in the Paleo "package" not because of its inherent qualities but because it makes a tidy package. We know prehistoric man didn't eat grain (rather didn't eat much grain - some did gather some), and we know he didn't eat dairy products. Voila! You have your "narrative". It's persuasive, of course, because: (a) farmers tend to be shorter than hunters (not invariably but on the whole); (b) they're rather less healthy; (c) we know some people do have definite allergic reactions to both foods mentioned.

            But because it all makes a tidy narrative doesn't make it definitively true. Problems with milk could be down to other factors. If someone definitively does have problems with milk, maybe it's down to the fact that it's pasteurized, or that it's from A1 cows ...

            Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.

            Robb does sometimes speak of lectins being present in milk. On the other hand, they're there in nuts, too ... which are, nevertheless, in the Paleo Diet, owing to the fact that prehistoric people gathered them.

            So I don't know - try dropping it out for a month or two and then "challenging" yourself with some. If you want to be rigorous you have to omit butter, too, because it has some dairy proteins in it. Use olive oil, coconut oil, goose fat, or whatever instead.
            I like this theory on cutting out dairy being a tidy package. THANK YOU very much for your insightful answer.
            sigpic
            www.pantrybites.com
            Real Good Primal Food

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            • #7
              For me, no dairy means no cramping/bloating and as an asthamatic, my mucous is not thick and sticky. I have just recently found Kefir which is a cultured milk product in which most (sometimes all?) of the lactose is eaten up by the culture and lactase is left. I haven't had a problem so far with this product.

              And btw, herders do use 'dairy'. The Masai keep and move cattle from place to place and milk them. The Mongols have a fermented drink from Mares milk. Caveman may not have had milk, but primitive cultures sure have had it for a long time---usually in a fermented state.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.
                There was a study done (but I can't find it) where a researcher took two twin girls and fed one a very CW diet and the other a more primal diet. The bone structure of the girl's faces ended up noticeably different.

                EDIT: Study I was referring to is discussed here:

                http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...ilization.html - Its very short.

                and here : http://ryan-koch.blogspot.com/2010/0...expansion.html

                And finally here is something else relevant: http://www.mednauseam.com/2007/08/wh...ut-facial.html


                EDIT EDIT: I didn't remember the study correctly. He didn't change the girl's diet but with both he did dental work, but with one mimicked the way the jaw develops in pre-ag societies.
                Last edited by Bushrat; 09-27-2010, 11:17 PM.
                A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                • #9
                  Interesting study! Thanks for posting that.

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                  • #10
                    For me: the acne that I had tried 'everything' to clear and I thought I was genetically stuck with disappeared. My skin became clear and healthy looking and everyone wants to know what I do to keep my skin looking amazing (which is very little in the way of skin care - only a little emu oil after I get out of the shower).

                    I eat no dairy, even butter makes my skin inflammed after a couple of days, but I eat ghee (butterfat, no milk proteins) regularly as a good source of sat fat.

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                    • #11
                      Sorry gave up dairy when I went paleo but I was never primal so I can't comment
                      MDA PRIMAL LIBERTARIAN GROUP

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                      • #12
                        I'm pretty much down to heavy cream, butter and greek yogurt. Not much - 1/2 cup yogurt a day, maybe 1/4 cup of cream and a couple tbsp of butter. Not a huge difference when I cut it out, mostly my skin (which cleared up most of the way when I cut out grains) finally clears up that last little bit. So, I know dairy affects me to some degree. But, I enjoy it too much to cut it out entirely.

                        Originally posted by shemdogg View Post
                        Sorry gave up dairy when I went paleo but I was never primal so I can't comment
                        and, yet, for some reason you still did.
                        Heather and the hounds - Make a Fast Friend, Adopt a Greyhound!

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                        • #13
                          I have what Kennelmom has, except for milk in cups of tea. Maybe I'd lean out faster if I ditched it all, but I do not wish to live without cream and butter. Especially when I don't have any nasty reactions to it.
                          The Primal Journey of Mr and Mrs Fist
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                          • #14
                            If I have too much dairy (I only eat mall amounts of very aged/hard cheese, heavy cream, and grass-fed butter) I notice that my allergies, and sinus are worse. I am working on removing the rest of it.

                            There are a couple of reasons behind the dairy removal recommendation.
                            -Lactose, the sugar in milk, is very hard for many people to digest and can cause digestive distress. Some noticeable (bloating, etc.), some on the microscopic level. This distress increases inflammation in the body. Inflammation causes issues with insulin and insulin causes issues with inflammation...really tough metabolic cycle to be in.
                            -Dairy also has growth factors that are intended for our young to grow larger. As adults, all of our cells (healthy and potentially mutated) are also affected by these growth factors, or bodies may not be able to keep up with the rapid growth of the bad cells (usually it can), and could potentially cause tumors. I'm not blaming the dairy industry for cancer, but the fact that after a cow has weened from his mother, it doesn't go back to drinking from her is something we should probably think about. It especially doesn't go to drinking human milk like we go to drinking cows milk. If someone is trying to lean out, drinking and eating growth factors may also inhibit their success.

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                            • #15
                              I've mostly given up dairy...and what I do consume (in the form of milk & cream for my coffee, some yogurt) is raw and grass-fed. My personal opinion is that we are better off without it, but that it seems many people can tolerate limited quantities. But it isn't palaeo, that's for sure. I feel like I've given up many things (that I don't miss), but that I would, very much, miss milk in coffee. So I keep it. Otherwise I would begin to have the deprivation self-pity that is the undermining emotion of falling off the palaeo way of life...
                              Down almost 40 lbs. 70 to go.

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