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  • Cardio and IF

    I am thinking about doing the following workout/fasting schedule:

    Monday - Weight Training
    Tuesday - Cardio / 24hr Fast
    Wednesday - Weight Training
    Thursday - Cardio / 24 hour Fast
    Friday - Weight Training
    Saturday - Cardio
    Sunday - Rest

    My 24 hour fasts would start the night before (Monday and Wednesday night) after supper and last until supper the next day. I workout around noon everyday. Is doing cardio (mostly high intensity interval training) in the middle of a 24 hour fast (at about hour 18) going to be detrimental to my health or my goals of trying to get below 10% BF?

    What should I break the fast with considering I did cardio that day?

  • #2
    Fasted cardio can work just find if and once your adapted to it. It should raise your catecholamines even higher fasting or plain cardio which should help you burn some stubborn fat.
    http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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    • #3
      A rise in the catecholamines means a rise in cortisol, so a 24 hour fast plus interval training doesn't sound too good in my opinion. If you're interested in a more scientific approach to fasting/training look up leangains by Martin Berkhan.
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      In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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      • #4
        Daemonized - I see you are from Olathe. I am living in Gardner. Small world!

        That stubborn body fat is where I am having the biggest issue. Mainly the lower ab region. There seems to be a trick getting rid of fat in that section.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by EGYnutrition View Post
          A rise in the catecholamines means a rise in cortisol, so a 24 hour fast plus interval training doesn't sound too good in my opinion. If you're interested in a more scientific approach to fasting/training look up leangains by Martin Berkhan.
          I have tried the leangains program but not with good results. I ended up gaining about 5lbs and roughly 2lbs of body fat. It was getting too hard to try and get all my requirements into that 8 hour window. My body started to retain fat instead of burning it. I maintained my primal eating habits except on weight training days where I increased my carb intake to right below 150 (by consuming more veggies and sweet potatoes). I also lowered my fat intake on those days. I obviously was doing something wrong but I cant seem to figure out what it was.

          I have considered doing the leangains approach on my cardio days. Doing the 16 hour fast until my cardio session is over and then feeding afterward. But that still brings to point the question about doing cardio on such an extended fast. It also brings the question, what to eat after the cardio session is over?

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          • #6
            It is a small world. There aren't very many primes around here that I am aware of.

            Right now, I am reading the Stubborn Fat Solution by Lyle McDonald. I'm working down to my last ounces now myself and there are all kinds of conflicting advice. I'm a big fan of Martin Berkhan of lean gains fan as well as the Mark and the PB thing. I'm doing IF daily at this point. My workouts are more weight training than cardio, but I do workout fasted.
            http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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            • #7
              Daemonized - I wish I could have gotten better results with leangains. As far as I could tell, I was doing everything right. I really enjoyed not having to worry about eating breakfast in the mornings and it really freed up a lot of time for me. I did it for 8 weeks but saw only increases in weight and BF. I have pretty much stalled out at around 11.5%BF and can't seem to get below that figure at all.

              I have read some of Lyle McDonald's work and was just looking at the Stubborn Fat Solution last night and thought of that as a possibility. I just don't know if I want to shell out the money for it quite yet.

              The Tuesday/Thursday IF idea was coming from the Eat Stop Eat approach but I want to make sure I get it right before I dive head first into another program. The cardio question is my biggest hangup.

              Are you doing the 16 hour daily fast as prescribed in leangains?

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              • #8
                I fast for for 16 to 18 hours or so daily and I throw in a 24 once or twice a week right now and rarely a 36 to 48. I don't have a pattern for the longer ones though. It's working pretty well for me. What I eat is more PB when I eat is more LG and TLS. Most of the kinks that I had to iron out to get where I'm going had more to do with diet than IF. Losing fat when you already have a single digit BF% isn't easy and nobody understands why you're doing it. I've not had a bod pod test done yet, but according to the Navy calcs, I'm down around 6%. I'm nearly at my goal, but I need to shave just a bit more off my lowest abs before I go into bulking mode. I'll also still be trying to keep fat gains down to an absolute minimum even as I gain.
                As I see it though, if you're stalled out for a while then you've probably found the maintenance level for your caloric intake.
                http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                • #9
                  Just be careful with mixing programs. Lyle's Stubborn Fat solution and other books are great, but most of them are temporary, and mixing it with another program might not be the best idea.

                  As far as the eat stop eat program and the 2 24 hour fasts, that's fine. But working out on those days is what is bugging me, skyrocketing cortisol can lead to that lower abdominal fat you're concerned with. I'd say do workouts on eating days and use that energy on the 24 hour fast days for something else.

                  This is just my opinion.
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                  In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                  • #10
                    I could be wrong about the cause of your stall. I'm certainly not claiming to know everything and things certainly don't always work the same for everyone else.
                    http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
                      I fast for for 16 to 18 hours or so daily and I throw in a 24 once or twice a week right now and rarely a 36 to 48. I don't have a pattern for the longer ones though. It's working pretty well for me. What I eat is more PB when I eat is more LG and TLS. Most of the kinks that I had to iron out to get where I'm going had more to do with diet than IF. Losing fat when you already have a single digit BF% isn't easy and nobody understands why you're doing it. I've not had a bod pod test done yet, but according to the Navy calcs, I'm down around 6%. I'm nearly at my goal, but I need to shave just a bit more off my lowest abs before I go into bulking mode. I'll also still be trying to keep fat gains down to an absolute minimum even as I gain.
                      As I see it though, if you're stalled out for a while then you've probably found the maintenance level for your caloric intake.
                      Daemonized, so what are you avoiding or keeping in as you work down that last percent or two? Are you eliminating anything like dairy, nuts, or just watching calories overall? I am getting to that point too, probably not as close as you are, but getting there. I have thought about giving up dairy, not so much because of weight issues, but more because of what I read about it for health reasons.

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                      • #12
                        I still do eat some dairy but I have eliminated nuts almost entirely. Giving up the cheese might help me a ittle, but I seem to be making headway without doing that. The emphasis of my diet right now is on getting protein and I do carb refeeds a couple times a week as well with sweet potatoes and I usually have a dessert once a week as well.
                        One of my favorite dinners is a can of wild caught salmon with some pepper jack in it. Canned tuna is big with me as is cottage cheese, beef, some pork, and eggs. I do eat some complex carbs in the form of veggies (mostly spinach or broccoli) I suppose my diet is probably most close to an old school low carb body builder's diet.
                        http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                        • #13
                          I do watch my intake to a certain extent as well, but I'm not trying to lose fast either. I'm trying to strike the delicate balance of losing fat slowly and still lifting to gain muscle. I should probably just chop the intake down lower and back off on working out for a couple weeks, but I don't want to.
                          http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
                            I still do eat some dairy but I have eliminated nuts almost entirely. Giving up the cheese might help me a ittle, but I seem to be making headway without doing that. The emphasis of my diet right now is on getting protein and I do carb refeeds a couple times a week as well with sweet potatoes and I usually have a dessert once a week as well.
                            One of my favorite dinners is a can of wild caught salmon with some pepper jack in it. Canned tuna is big with me as is cottage cheese, beef, some pork, and eggs. I do eat some complex carbs in the form of veggies (mostly spinach or broccoli) I suppose my diet is probably most close to an old school low carb body builder's diet.
                            Are you focusing on getting your lean body weight in grams of protein, and then the rest in fats and low carb? I have been mainly focusing on lower carbs, but not so much on getting in any certain amount of protein. I might consider that at this point, even though I have read from several people that they don't get in any specific protein amount. Maybe it just works for some people not to.

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, I usually never go a day without going at least a little over my the manufactures suggested protein requirements for my size. I keep my carbs pretty low unless I'm re-feeding then I tend to keep my fat lower than I normally would. I also don't go out of my way to get more fat into my diet anymore either.
                              http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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