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  • #16
    That may be what I need to do to see if I notice any change. I have been adding in coconut oil here and there, and I probably don't need it. Maybe I should focus on a little more protein, to at least get my bodyweight's worth. I eat more carbs on my workout days, but even then I rarely go over 100g. What are your refeeds like as far as carbs?

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    • #17
      I workout five days a week usually and I only have two carb re-feeds. My re-feeds is pretty much baked sweet potatoes or once in a blue moon some white potato. I'm still probably not going much over 100g to 150g except for when I have dessert (usually after Sunday dinner).
      http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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      • #18
        When I plan a meal I think, "How am I going to get a bunch of protein?" then "What should I add to it?". Eggs take care of the protein and the fat for example. I won't eat eggs on a carb day. Tuna and cottage cheese are more what I eat on re-feed days.
        http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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        • #19
          startbeingfit - I agree with EGY that HIIT in the middle of a fast might not be so good. It might be OK in a fasted state if you break the fast afterwards, but in the middle of the fast might be problematic. I view HIIT as more like weight training than "cardio" as cardio is usually thought of. When you're sprinting like that there's probably going to be some muscle breakdown and rebuilding (part of the cortisol process EGY mentioned). If you don't have nutrition to support that rebuiding phase, your recovery (and muscle-building?) could be impaired and your hormones could result in a net fat storage signal. In grok terms, it's like -- "Ok body, we just chased a wild boar on and off for 8 minutes, but came up empty handed. Better hold onto that fat for a while". It would make more sense to me to do HIIT before, during, or after your lifting sessions. Some crossfit WODs do similar combinations - like 3-3-3-3-3 deadlifts, then a 10-12 minute high-intensity metcon with pull ups, burpees, or whatever. Then on your 24-hour fast days, do low level cardio for your noon sessions. In theory you're already running on stored bodyfat by then; if you go out for a brisk walk or other activity that keeps you in the fat burning mode you're just upping the amount of fat being burned.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
            When I plan a meal I think, "How am I going to get a bunch of protein?" then "What should I add to it?". Eggs take care of the protein and the fat for example. I won't eat eggs on a carb day. Tuna and cottage cheese are more what I eat on re-feed days.
            Thanks for the info. Sorry for all the questions. Sounds like we are pretty close as far as diets, except yours is a little more protein and the carb refeeds. I might try moving toward that to see how I do.

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            • #21
              Sure, no worries. Good luck with your diet tweaks and stuff.
              http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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              • #22
                Could anyone expand on the idea of both cortisol increase and lowered caloric intake actually spurring body fat increase. I recently began eating once per day, mainly because it is so darn convenient with my school schedule. However, I am pretty hardcore with my diet and only eat meat and veggies, so I know my overall caloric intake is pretty low. Could this be the cause of some added lower abdominal fat I have noticed?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jrh24054 View Post
                  Could anyone expand on the idea of both cortisol increase and lowered caloric intake actually spurring body fat increase. I recently began eating once per day, mainly because it is so darn convenient with my school schedule. However, I am pretty hardcore with my diet and only eat meat and veggies, so I know my overall caloric intake is pretty low. Could this be the cause of some added lower abdominal fat I have noticed?
                  100% yes, along with lack of vitamin C, lack of sun and disrupted sleep or stess with school/being obsessive over your food
                  Get on my Level
                  http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
                    When I plan a meal I think, "How am I going to get a bunch of protein?" then "What should I add to it?". Eggs take care of the protein and the fat for example. I won't eat eggs on a carb day. Tuna and cottage cheese are more what I eat on re-feed days.
                    how do you plan to bulk?!?! i wanna start doing similar phases as i already do refeed about 3 times a week but i dont do strong lifts as my only workout tool is my body lol
                    Get on my Level
                    http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                      100% yes, along with lack of vitamin C, lack of sun and disrupted sleep or stess with school/being obsessive over your food
                      Geez Louise, you kit the nail on the head with all of the above ma'am. I really like the way I am eating right now, is there any way to decrease cortisol while maintaining IF?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by EGYnutrition View Post
                        A rise in the catecholamines means a rise in cortisol, so a 24 hour fast plus interval training doesn't sound too good in my opinion. If you're interested in a more scientific approach to fasting/training look up leangains by Martin Berkhan.
                        I have been pouring through leangains and other sites on the net tonight and if I am reading all of this right, an increase in catecholamines is independent of an increase in cortisol. increase in catecholamine is good while an increase in cortisol is bad. I think cortisol has been my biggest downfall for my increase in weight and BF.

                        For the last 8 weeks, I have been following the leangains approach with the exception of my cardio days. I was continuing to do the 16 hours fasts even on the days where I was doing HIIT (which amounted to 3 days a week). On those days, my calorie intake would be right around 1700 calories. From what I am reading on leangains, that is too low. My intake should have been closer to 2500kcal a day in order to keep cortisol levels down. In essence, the cardio I was doing as a way to burn the fat was actually causing my body to store fat instead.

                        So now I need to decide if I should continue to do HIIT with a huge increase in my daily calorie intake or take those days and just do some low intensity cardio such as walking.

                        Thoughts? Am I completely wrong on this?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Steve-in-MN View Post
                          startbeingfit - I agree with EGY that HIIT in the middle of a fast might not .......
                          I just replied to EGY and then read this. I think you both are correct. I am going to eliminate the HIIT on the fasting days completely and might just go for a long walk or some other type of low intensity cardio. I am starting to think that the HIIT was causing my body to store the fat. I was working harder and eating better than ever before but gaining weight! The body is one confusing machine!

                          Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.

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                          • #28
                            Daemonized - I am curious what your cardio sessions are like? What do you do on your 24 hour fast days?

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                            • #29
                              If you really want to learn a lot more about this and the adrenals, check out Matt Stones blog. I pretty much read it in its' entirety one night because it had such great info.
                              http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/

                              It's difficult to give an answer just because everybody's bodies respond differently. What I would definitely not do is combine a workout with a 24 hour fast.

                              Let's say you want to do low carb, intermittent fasting (such as leangains) , and intense exercise multiple times a week, the healthiest way to do that is to add in re-feeds. This will allow hormones to balance out which could potentially lead to more fat loss (that's just one benefit, also tends to be good for the adrenals).

                              FYI my opinion on cortisol/adrenal fatigue/ect... is that it's all a matter of balancing. Getting your mindset right is key as the mental/emotional stress that can root from a negative mindset is infinite while the cortisol that is released from a cup of coffee or a workout is more finite. Sleeping, getting all the proper nutrients (B Vitamins, Vitamin C, Zinc, Vitamin D, Magnesium, ect...) and getting sunlight are all amazing tools to help you body balance out your hormones.

                              To end this all over the place rant off, cortisol isn't inherently bad. We would die if we could not produce cortisol, likewise insulin. It's the excess that gets us.
                              sigpic
                              In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                              • #30
                                And BTW walks are great! I don't have studies handy but from anecdotal experience they can actually decrease bf while normalizing cortisol levels, 2 for 1 deal!
                                sigpic
                                In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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