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  • #61
    Originally posted by JKC View Post
    Well, my large LDL have increased as well as my HDL. So, I will say that part is true.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by captaineight View Post
      Personally I was almost convinced regarding the "healthiness" of saturated fats. I've seen a few things recently, your lab results being one of them, that have made me take a double take. I'm really sitting on the fence on this one, and personally I think I'm going to err on the side of caution and aim for mostly unsaturated fats.
      I guess it comes down to which side of the "high overall cholesterol and all LDL is bad for you" fence you stand on.
      Last edited by Misabi; 04-19-2011, 05:30 PM.
      If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

      Originally posted by tfarny
      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

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      • #63
        What about the eggs? That was my cardiologist's and primary physician's biggest concern. I eat a lot of eggs. I could just switch to having fewer eggs, or replacing eggs altogether with some kind of other protein. There is a lot of fat and cholesterol in them. I really hate to give them up, or anything that I enjoy now for that matter.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
          What about the eggs? That was my cardiologist's and primary physician's biggest concern. I eat a lot of eggs. I could just switch to having fewer eggs, or replacing eggs altogether with some kind of other protein. There is a lot of fat and cholesterol in them. I really hate to give them up, or anything that I enjoy now for that matter.
          Again, response to this depends on your view on cholesterol and sat fats. If you still believe the old CW that the cholesterol you eat has any real affect on raising your blood cholesterol (and if so, that it specifically raises the small dense LDL levels - or maybe you don't believe there is a difference there either) as your doctor appears to then yes you would want to drop eggs and fatty meats etc.

          However, if you've seen enough evidence to disprove Ancel Key's thoughts on the matter then eating eggs isn't an issue as they will have little affect on your blood cholesterol.

          Likewise, if HDL is good, trigs down and large fluffy LDL is good (hands up, I haven't read through this thread and am assuming that this is the case), why does it matter if your total numbers are up?

          IMHO of course
          If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

          Originally posted by tfarny
          If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

          Comment


          • #65
            That's pretty much been my take up until this point Misabi. I feel good, enjoy what I eat, exercise regularly and I am in the best shape of my life. I really don't feel the need to change what I am doing.

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            • #66
              I read this whole thread along with Griff's primer, Mark's take on fat and cholesterol, other threads, Taube's columns (although not his book) and am more confused than ever. Is elevated cholesterol a bad thing?

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              • #67
                John_Solo: There is not great evidence that dietary fat intake leads to heart disease. This is the main point of the book that shall not be named. It is also stated in Mark's definitive guide linked above. Whether or not it is a bad thing, eating more fat does not appear to increase your chance of getting heart disease, which is why the whole cholesterol scare came into being in the first place.
                Karin

                A joyful heart is good medicine

                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot

                Mmmmm. Real food is good.

                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29685.html

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
                  That's pretty much been my take up until this point Misabi. I feel good, enjoy what I eat, exercise regularly and I am in the best shape of my life. I really don't feel the need to change what I am doing.
                  From my perspective, I've read evidence from both sides, grew up eating the healthy grain and low fat diet for the most part and only ever struggled with putting on weight as I got older and my activity levels dropped of, I ate the same or more than when I was more active. However to get back to 'my' weight and maintain it over the past 10 years I've tried my tried and tested "eat sensibly" and work hard in the gym to lose weight and get in shape, which worked but was a lot of work and limiting in what I would eat.

                  I have also suffered IBS for a number of years, which is what really led me to this WOE. IBS no more, I put that down to cutting out the grains. But the really nice side affect is that I barely work out anymore (walk for about 30 mins to an hour a day, some pullups pushups a coupla times a month) but my body fat has dropped down to where in previous years I would have had to work my nuts off and "diet" to get to. I know I should workout more just to reach where I would like to be strength wise etc.

                  I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've tried primal / paleo over the past 3 years or so and it has definitely been good for me. This in itself is proof for me. It all comes down to personal responsibility, I take ownership of me and if the decisions I make go against what my doctor tells me then on my head be it. I know enough people who have blindly followed what learned dr's have told them and ended up much worse off because it was wrong / bad science which they had learned many moons ago and has since been debunked to take everything a dr says at face value. However, I've also read a lot of garbage offered as 'the truth' by people on the interwebs, so I do my research and make the call.

                  I also know people in medicine who are firmly entrenched in the old world view that sat fat and dietary cholesterol are evil, as well as some who are very primally minded. So it's very difficult when you get told just to listen to your doc, when the doc in the office next door or surgery down the road completely disagrees with them.

                  I'm sure that's no help whatsoever, but some of my rambling thoughts
                  If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                  Originally posted by tfarny
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I think at your calorie level and fitness level that replacing some of your fat with more non-starchy veggies wouldn't be a bad thing. The fiber does help to lower LDL, it might be what helps you get into a level that you and your docs are more comfortable with. Sticking to 100-150 grams of carb should be safe and not cause an increase in yout triglycerides.
                    Meghan

                    My MDA journal

                    Primal Ponderings- my blog- finally added some food pron :P

                    And best of all my Body Fat Makeover!!

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                    • #70
                      John:

                      Not coincidentally, this is my breakfast and I'm eating it right as we type:



                      (okay, so not that exact picture, but salmon and garden salad). Yummo.

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                      • #71
                        Looks good Captain. I am not sure what I will do. All I know is I feel great, and I really don't think there is a need to change. If I lose a few years off my life, oh well. What will suck is if I have a heart attack in 5 years because I followed this diet. Like Misabi says, just live with the decision you make and hope for the best.

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                        • #72
                          Well Salmon is full of all the right kind of fats.

                          I'm not convinced that our paleolithic ancestors did really eat enormous amounts of saturated fats. Most game animals are very lean compared to their farmed counterparts, and they certainly weren't cooked in butter and supplemented with cream and whatnot. I understand that some animals are quite fatty, especially in colder climates. I also understand that brains and organs have a high saturated fat content. However, I still question how much saturated fat was really consumed by our ancient ancestors.

                          Purely anecdotal, but this is what game kangaroo steak looks like:



                          Although I do believe bison contain lots of fat, there's the question of how much bison did our paleolithic ancestors actually eat? And what percentage of a bison is lean meat compared to it's brains, internals, etc. that are saturated fat? Here is a wild bison steak:



                          Compare those two to a supermarket-bought, farmed steak:



                          Let me be clear to the CW-haters: I'm not saying our ancestors didn't consume a lot of saturated fats. I'm not even saying saturated fats are bad for you. I'm saying, "I don't know" to both things, and just demonstrating that there is two sides to every story...
                          Last edited by captaineight; 04-19-2011, 07:22 PM.

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                          • #73
                            I hear what you are saying Captain. I agree about the added fats. I have thought about cutting those out, such as the cream and butter. It might be better to just stick with meats, eggs and veggies, without adding extra fat, at least saturated. I have been overdoing the cream and cheese as of late, which may be a reason for my cholesterol being even higher. What I can't figure out is how others seem to do this way of eating and their numbers are in check. Genetics I guess, or maybe they just eat less fat overall.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
                              What I can't figure out is how others seem to do this way of eating and their numbers are in check. Genetics I guess, or maybe they just eat less fat overall.
                              Could be either I guess. I've found that I can't eat all of the excess fat that some people on here seem to be able to. I do eat fattier cuts of meat, not like the marbled looking steak in cap8's pic above as they don't seem to appear at my local butchers. Maybe that's a pic of grain fed/finished beef?... The beef I eat is generally lean meat with fat around it rather than all through it. I do cook in coconut oil or butter and use olive oil liberally, but found that if I'm eating lots of cream, cheese etc. by body fat starts to creep up.
                              If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                              Originally posted by tfarny
                              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Captaineight, out of interest were you eating a paleo style diet prior to trying primal? If not, how did you eat before primal?
                                E.g. cereal for brekkie, sandwiches, pasta, rice for lunch/dinner etc.?
                                If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                                Originally posted by tfarny
                                If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                                Comment

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