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Fruit based diet or Paleo?

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  • #16
    1



    Here's a bit of info/rant about fructose:

    http://www.raisin-hell.com/


    There seems to be a bit of evidence that the stuff is bad news for you.


    A fruitarian diet could maybe be called paleo/primal, but the longer I eat paleo, the more I drift towards carnivorous...

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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    • #17
      1



      Here is an article detailing research on Bonobo chimpanzee diets in the wild:

      http://www.nagonline.net/Diets%20pdf/Bonobo%20Nutrition.pdf


      Here is an article on the Common chimp with a paragraph on diet:

      http://www.honoluluzoo.org/chimpanzee.htm


      I'm with grandma on the fact that I'm not quite convinced that fruits are just poisonous fructose mixed with fiber. Are we that metabolically removed from our fellow primates that fruits shouldn't be a major part of an optimal diet? Or maybe we should only be eating fruits for their essential micronutrient content?

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      • #18
        1



        @ OTB

        I get all my amino acids directly from fruits. Fruits contain plenty amino acids and the body does not need any energy to convert protein into amino acids in the first place.


        We all eat too much protein/amino acids anyway. Protein or amino acids respectively are being constantly recycled in the body and we only need to replace the amount lost, which is a very small amount. You may want to read "How Much Protein" by Brad Pilon.


        You suspect wrong with my muscles. I lost fat only. And since I am doing strength training 3x a week there is no way I lost muscle mass. I am not on a starvation diet and do not lay in bed the whole day doing nothing. Then one would lose SOME muscle mass and only very little.


        Thanks for the link. I already know about Tom Billings. It seems the fruitarian diet didn't do much for him. Doesn't mean that someone else can thrive on it.


        About your calorie argument. I do not agree with it. IMHO it's not a question of getting enough calories but a question of getting all the nutrition the body needs. If it gets it with less calories why eat more or even force feed? A calorie is measured by heating. I do not heat my fruits, I eat them cold. Therefore the calorie argument is mute. I get more from my fruits than I would from cooked meat. Don't get me wrong, I do not bash the meat eaters at all. How could I, just because I switched from paleo/primal to fruit doesn't mean I can agree with you. I just state my opinion on this. I don't buy into the calorie in / calorie out anyway.

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        • #19
          1



          OnTheBayou, sorry if I wasn't very clear! What I meant by a similar idea wasn't in a macronutritional sense. I meant that they are both based on 'what we evolved to eat'.


          It is certainly hard to imagine how we could possibly get enough protein on such a diet. I think with modern fruits and our own modern bodies meat is important. Some say that we are not natural meat eaters and that if we were we would have 'obvious' physical attributes to show for it (Larger canines, Claws, etc). In my opinion, we would have been eating meat with the assistance of tools so we wouldn't need to develop such body parts. There is the possibility, however, that we eat too much meat. I cannot imagine it would have been a daily task for the men of a million years ago to hunt down an animal, rather every few days.

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          • #20
            1



            Banana, please could you point me to some research showing that we can get all essential amino acids from fruit alone? (genuine question)

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            • #21
              1



              James:

              I came across some interesting "facts" about indigenous diets during my researches on the net.

              All diets (indians, aborigines, europeans...) consisted of plants, nuts, eggs from birds or even fish if they had access to rivers or the sea. Maybe once a week or every fortnight the tribes people would eat some meat (caribou, birds, buffalo or whatever). Some tribes ate more meat and some less. They were all lean and healthy people and very strong. As soon as they all were introduced to canned food, sugar, alcohol and processed foods they started to put on weight and diseases started to spread.


              So according to this, I guess meat wasn't on the table every day at least not fresh meat. Maybe dried meat from the last catch.

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              • #22
                1



                Jedi:

                I will point you to books which will list researches in the reference section.

                80/10/10 by Dr Graham Douglas

                Quantum Eating by Tonya Zavasta

                Google: T.C. Fry, Arnold Ehret, William Howard Hay, Herbert M Shelton


                The Raw Food Bodybuilding Training Manual by Charlie Abel - It's not research just his journey, but a very good and interesting read nonetheless.


                There is lots of stuff out there which can even be downloaded for free.


                And I definitely recommend the "How Much Protein" by Brad Pilon. It's not about fruits but about protein in general. He knows his stuff and worked the industry for years.

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                • #23
                  1



                  thanks Banana, yes i love Brad's stuff and have "how much protein"

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                  • #24
                    1



                    You get all your protein needs from fruit? My mind reels. OK, OK, I'm trying to say something is working for you that is so contrary to simple nutritional physics, but I can not get my head around it. Fruit most certainly does NOT have "Plenty of amino acids." One gram total protein in a banana is not "Plenty."


                    I don't know if it is Brad Pillon's, but I've read some things on the internet about the protein RDA's being too high. I'll admit to not knowing who is right on this one. I do know that it's definitely a "better safe than sorry" for me. The thing about stressing the kidneys is Old Housewive's Bunk.


                    And I am having trouble with trying to understand your calorie argument. It's almost starting to sound "breatharian," you know, the folks who claim to breath and get all the nutrients they need. Are you saying that you don't need calories as long as you have nutrients? (And the calorie content of a food has nothing to do with cold or hot.)


                    The argument that this is what we used to eat in Grokland is way off base. Dr. Cordain has a whole department of Paleo Nutrition at Colorado State University and they should know what our ancestors and the remaining Groksters eat. Fruit is not a big part of the diet, all plant matters average out to 40% or less of the diet. Animal matters constitute 60% or more. That includes insects and bugs, animal matters that most vegan/vegetarian/fruitarian proponents overlook.


                    All I know is that if my diet were 95% fruit, I couldn't leave the bathroom!


                    How many pounds of fruit a day do you consume? What, besides bananas?

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                    • #25
                      1

                      [quote]

                      I came across some interesting "facts" about indigenous diets during my researches on the net.

                      All diets (indians, aborigines, europeans...) consisted of plants, nuts, eggs from birds or even fish if they had access to rivers or the sea. Maybe once a week or every fortnight the tribes people would eat some meat.</blockquote>


                      That&#39;s a blatant untruth. It might not be yours; it might be your sources&#39; untruth. It&#39;s still a blatant untruth.


                      It doesn&#39;t stand up for ten seconds with anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the ethnographic literature.


                      I&#39;ve no objection to people being vegetarian if they wish, but they shouldn&#39;t tell lies.


                      One can probably get by on meat once a week, so long as one has enough eggs, dairy produce, and bone-broth in the diet (vide Weston Price&#39;s Swiss and Sir Robert McCarrison&#39;s researches on the diets of Northern India) but primitive people did not eat in that way.


                      The diets of primitive people were incredibly rich in animal foods. Some primitive peoples ate almost nothing but meat and fat with some 80% of their calories coming from fats. And all ate far, far more meat or fish with its associated animal fats that civilized peoples do. And nor did they eat just muscle meats, like moderns either: frequently they&#39;d eat the organ meats, then the fat, and then abandon a carcass. People like Samuel Hearne saw them do it. Archaeological information from kill sites shows they were highly selective, abandoning some carcasses and only taking parts of others.


                      And this, of course, is why Weston Price found in the 30s that some of the last remaining groups of hunter-gatherers had levels of important fat-soluble vitamins at some ten times what they were in the average American diet of his day. (The gap would be wider now.) This he thought was one of the major reasons why the dentition of his primitives was near perfect to actually perfect - one African group had not a single instance of dental caries in the whole tribe - their bones were good, and their health and physical powers far beyond what most people nowadays regard as the norm.

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