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Joint trouble - what to give up first?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ShannonPA-S View Post
    So yummy.

    Have you done research into nightshades? I don't know much about this, but I know some people really have problems with these.
    That's about what I'd found - there seem to be lots of anecdotes, but I don't know whether anyone's done trials.

    Originally posted by kuno1chi View Post
    Hilary,

    Before you give up anything---are you taking fish oil and vit D??? I found when I fixed my omega ratio, and raised my D3 levels, all my creaky sore joints started feeling better. I would hate for you to give up yummy things like tomatoes if you like them, and if they're not really causing your problem.
    Thanks for the thought! D - yes (and getting outside every day, not that there's much sun here lately). Fish oil - yes, but not the four capsules it says on the bottle. I'd certainly rather swallow more capsules and keep a bit of colour in my salads, so I'll try that first. I wonder how long it'd take to see results?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by emmie View Post
      If it's just your toe, I'd suggest having it medically evaluated before making dietary changes. I write as someone with severe osteoarthritis who has been controlling pain for years with diet and exercise--but I knew what I had before I started treating it via dietary adjustments.

      If it's only the foot, I'd suggest seeing a good podiatrist because I've gotten better treatment from them for foot problems than from orthopedists.

      If it's your joints in general, you might consider a physiatrist--they are MDs who specialize in rehabilitation medicine and are usually very helpful in terms of appropriate PT, etc.

      In terms of generally reducing inflammation, making sure I had sufficient omega 3s has been critical. Abstaining from all sugar, including artificial sweeteners, has also been important. If I indulge in sugar at any time (special occasion dessert, for example), I can feel the pain the next day.
      Thanks. I'm sure you and Griff are right about seeing a doctor for a definite diagnosis.

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      • #18
        i wouldnt remove anything but the nightshades personally and i dont know even about them.

        i second the fish oil, but more important make sure you arent getting an excess O6 in your primal diet which is surprisingly really easy to do. just takes some chicken, nuts and olive oil.

        have you tried coconut oil, specifically oil pulling? i have heard good things regarding joint pain and startig with gum/dental health. also, drink some kombucha... it will enhance your liver and make the good nutrients you eat form primal more readily available to your body, IMO.
        Get on my Level
        http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hilary View Post
          That's about what I'd found - there seem to be lots of anecdotes, but I don't know whether anyone's done trials.


          Thanks for the thought! D - yes (and getting outside every day, not that there's much sun here lately). Fish oil - yes, but not the four capsules it says on the bottle. I'd certainly rather swallow more capsules and keep a bit of colour in my salads, so I'll try that first. I wonder how long it'd take to see results?
          From what I understand, this will depend on how much o6 you already have incorporated into you...for me, it took less than a week to feel a difference. Also, +1 on Mal's suggestion to try and reduce your current o6 intake

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          • #20
            Thanks MalPaz - what's oil pulling?

            I have just done another round of Googling and I have the horribly embarrassing realisation I may be making all this fuss about a bunion.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Hilary View Post
              Thanks MalPaz - what's oil pulling?
              Forget I asked - Google is my friend.

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              • #22
                Update - I increased my intake of fish oil and the visible swelling has gone down by about 60%. So that's good. Funnily enough, that doesn't affect the pain... but then the pain was present for years before the swelling, so maybe it'll sort itself out eventually.

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                • #23
                  If you still wonder about the gout possibility, eat a lot of cherries or have some unsweetened cherry juice, and see if it gets magically better. If it does, then get your uric acid levels checked. Cherries tell your kidneys to collect and dispose of uric acid, for some reason. Very helpful of them.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kuno1chi View Post
                    Hilary,

                    Before you give up anything---are you taking fish oil and vit D??? I found when I fixed my omega ratio, and raised my D3 levels, all my creaky sore joints started feeling better. I would hate for you to give up yummy things like tomatoes if you like them, and if they're not really causing your problem.
                    I Ditto this excellent advice. You need 1,000 units of Vitamin D per 25 lbs of body weight. Your body will not use calcium if you are low on Vitamin D. This VITAL vitamin is not supplied in adequate amounts by foods.

                    Best of Health to you,
                    Grizz

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                    • #25
                      I would personally ditch dairy if I were in your situation. Maybe keep butter. But dairy is generally inflammatory, contains lectins, skews acid/base balance leading to calcium depletion. Dairy with any proteins/sugars also causes a big insulin spike, and I remember a study showing drinking cows milk in kids leading to insulin resistance (and no, wasn't just a questionaire type deal).
                      Other than that keep the veggie consumption big and varied, maybe look into supplemental magnesium, and start working your joints DAILY. If you don't know how to do any I'm sure you can find stuff on the webs. One of my knees used to creek every time I bended it, and getting into a deep squat twice a day really improved it.

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                      • #26
                        sounds like gout.
                        whatever it is, you will find out for yourself by doing an elimination diet.
                        eat a balance of meats and vegies, not too much of either. no nightshades at first. then start changing the balance, either way...more meat or more vegies but not increasing both at the same time.
                        after you figure out the perfect balance w/o symptoms, start adding one item per week. be very aware and if an item causes sx, eliminate it.
                        then you'll need to wait for sx to subside before adding another item....and on and on.

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                        • #27
                          I don't think it can be gout, because everything I read about gout says it's mind-numbingly excruciating, can't-move, can't-think kind of pain. This is more the 'argh, wish it would go away' sort of thing - doesn't stop me doing normal, daily things. And the fish oil (oh, and I've been increasing D as well, come to think of it) has made a big difference. That's why I was bumping the thread - to provide an encouraging sort of progress report.

                          Also in my searchings I found a recommendation of tagetes for bunions (I reckon that's what it is, with a bit of arthritis developing in the joints). If I could just find a trustworthy-looking UK supplier, I'd try that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Pandadude View Post
                            I would personally ditch dairy if I were in your situation. Maybe keep butter. But dairy is generally inflammatory, contains lectins, skews acid/base balance leading to calcium depletion. Dairy with any proteins/sugars also causes a big insulin spike, and I remember a study showing drinking cows milk in kids leading to insulin resistance (and no, wasn't just a questionaire type deal).
                            Other than that keep the veggie consumption big and varied, maybe look into supplemental magnesium, and start working your joints DAILY. If you don't know how to do any I'm sure you can find stuff on the webs. One of my knees used to creek every time I bended it, and getting into a deep squat twice a day really improved it.
                            I disagree with this... this is very broad. This sums dairy up into a nice, tidy wad of badness when in fact it really doesn't have to be.

                            If you are not lactose intolerant, are not insulin resistant, and don't weigh 500lbs and need to be in ketosis... dairy and you can be friends.

                            Not trying to start a fight with panda dude, I just think experimentation is key when making decisions about food to cut and want to be sure to get that out there!

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                            • #29
                              Dairy does have its points, but not for everybody, and not just any dairy.

                              I've found out a few things about dairy -- the CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is good for you. The milk proteins can help the kidneys collect and get rid of uric acid if it's too high. And if people have a lot of trouble dealing with oxalates, the calcium in dairy can help absorb the oxalates when they are eaten together, e.g., strawberries and cream.

                              It also is inflammatory, some (type 1 cows) is addictive, it supposedly releases too much insulin, if low fat you don't get the benefit of the fat-soluble nutrients or absorb the protein properly, sometimes the cows aren't fed outdoors on natural forage, but hang around in barns chowing on grains; and large dairies combine the milk from many animals, so if one is infected with something, the whole batch of milk is infected. Homogenization makes the fats hard to absorb.

                              I tend more and more to cultured dairy (aged cheddar, yogurt, goat yogurt) and unsalted butter, as much as possible from grass-raised animals. Now and then I try to give up dairy, but I wander back to it every time.

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                              • #30
                                Giving dairy up altogether would be major deprivation... so much so that I'm reluctant to test eliminating it! I think I'll do another search for tagetes oil instead.

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