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  • Bleeding, Dizziness, Low Blood Pressure?

    Hey Guys,

    In the last few weeks I've been experiencing an increase in symptoms concurrent with the introduction of a hefty dose of supplements.

    The symptoms include, frequent nose bleeds, dizziness, and light-headedness. I have a suspicion it's due to low blood pressure caused by the supplements.

    The supps include daily: New Chapter's Everyman Daily, Country Life's Super 10 Antioxidant, 800mg Magnesium, 400mg Chromium, 1000mg Pantothenic Acid, 1000mg Vitamin C, and 1000mg Glutamine.
    I also have to say that I have been increasingly liberal in my dosing of my liquid fish oil by Natural Factors, which includes 1500mg EPA and 750mg DHA per teaspoon. Usually I'll take a tablespoon or more a day.

    I also take 20mg Celexa and .75mg of Klonopin daily. I'm currently tapering off the Klonopin.

    Between the Magnesium, loads of Fish Oil, The Vitamin E and Turmeric in the Daily and Antioxidant, and the blood-thinning effects of the Celexa, along with my daily exercise, I think this adds up to Low Blood Pressure. Thoughts?

    Clark
    The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.

    -George Carlin

  • #2
    On my iPhone so remind me to give a better answer later. Ditch the anti inflammaries for now (except fish oil). 1000mg of b5 is too much.

    Add salt.




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    • #3
      i hope you mean 1000 micrograms of chromium not 1000 miligrams. the highest recomended dose,in conventional but open minded scources is 200 micrograms. 1000 micrograms would = a pharmacolgic dose of huge and probably unsafe levels. 1000 miligrams? who knows ,but couldn't be good anything but toxic.

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      • #4
        Hey guys,

        Yeah, I made a mistake, I'm taking 400 MICROGRAMS of the Chromium. I also have not been eating that much in the way of salty stuff, save the bacon, sausage and eggs in the morning. Point taken in adding some more.

        The reason for the specific supps. is two-fold. One, I have a very strong suspicion that I'm hypoglycemic (I have a GTT test appt. a little more than a week away) and two, I'm getting off all sugar (hence the glutamine for the cravings).

        This hypoglycemia, causes some serious anxiety in me. My feeling is, if the assumption that I have HYPO is true, I'd like to treat it naturally so as to help with my Klonopin withdrawal process. The doses I'm taking of said nutrients are are recc's from the book Depression Free, Naturally by Joan Mathews Larson.

        To answer another q, I am getting all the B vit's in the Mutli I take. The extra Pantothenic Acid is for adrenal repair. The adrenals take a beating in anyone with an anxiety disorder and/or hypoglycemia.

        My feeling at this point is that I'll drop the Antioxidant Formula, take the Magnesium down to 400mg a day, cut back just a little on the fish oil, and half the Pantothenic Acid. Mas?

        Clark
        The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.

        -George Carlin

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        • #5
          i think youre overthinking and taking to many supp's...the only necessary are fish oil, vita D and maybe K... IMO... if your hypoglycemic i would be REAL careful poppin yourself full of pills to begin with...there is no reason eating primally you arent getting your B vitamins, and magnesium.

          with all these pills youre gonna end up worse off throwing off balance other things in your body which may explain the dizziness

          get your minerals & vitaminds from food....and the sun
          Get on my Level
          http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PeaceMachineGun View Post
            Yeah, I made a mistake, I'm taking 400 MICROGRAMS of the Chromium.
            Let's quit the chromium too. It's not going to be helpful for you.


            The reason for the specific supps. is two-fold. One, I have a very strong suspicion that I'm hypoglycemic (I have a GTT test appt. a little more than a week away) and two, I'm getting off all sugar (hence the glutamine for the cravings).
            It'll go away...I promise. keep up with the glutamine

            .there is no reason eating primally you arent getting your B vitamins, and magnesium.
            a lot aren't. i've seen B1 and B2 deficiency here (more than one case), iron deficiency anemia, *tons* of magnesium insufficiency.

            This hypoglycemia, causes some serious anxiety in me. My feeling is, if the assumption that I have HYPO is true, I'd like to treat it naturally so as to help with my Klonopin withdrawal process. The doses I'm taking of said nutrients are are recc's from the book Depression Free, Naturally by Joan Mathews Larson.
            But wait Clark.....if you give primal 4 weeks, you *won't have* hypoglycemia anymore. Wait until then to deal with the klonopin reduction.

            I'd do 250 mg pantothenic acid (she doesn't recommend more than that iirc), 400-600 mg magesium from all sources (food and supps combined), enough Ω3 to offset the Ω6 you take in daily....or maybe twice that for a few weeks to really saturate your cell membranes.


            K



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            • #7
              Originally posted by MalPaz View Post

              get your minerals & vitaminds from food....and the sun
              Most of the year in most places in the world, this isn't possible wrt vitamin d.

              And unless we're eating whole animal (blood, guts, all organs, brain, eyes etc) we're simply not going to get all that we need from food.



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              • #8
                Originally posted by PeaceMachineGun View Post
                H
                Between the Magnesium, loads of Fish Oil, The Vitamin E and Turmeric
                quit the tumeric and E as well.



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                • #9
                  Awesome Kat!! Thanks so much. Dropping the Chromium, extra E and Turmeric from the Antioxidant. Will lower Pantothenic and Magnesium and keep the Fish Oil.

                  I forgot to mention I'm also taking Vit. D in my Multi (1500 IU + 1000 IU from an extra source - MegaFood D). Most days I'm working inside so I'm assuming this is ok. Also forgot to mention I'm taking Resveratrol and then Melatonin as needed, for sleep. With the Melatonin I'm never taking it more than a week in a row, and actually just recently started. You think there might be any issues with the Melatonin given that I'm on an SSRI? I've heard different things about it, some of which state that SSRI's deplete natural Melatonin stores.

                  Also, I'm considering taking HCL(I'm Blood Type A+ and do burp up Fish Oil occasionally), Pancreatic Enzymes, and/or Probiotics (I'm staying away from Yogurt b/c of a dairy issue) for better digestion of my nutrients. Thoughts?

                  Also!!!!! (LOL) I'm considering taking a low dose (10-25mg) B Complex on top of my multi which has all the B's. Thoughts again?

                  And, I agree with you about the Hypo and being primal. Need to focus more on the food I'm eating it seems. Yikes!!!!

                  Clark
                  The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.

                  -George Carlin

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                  • #10
                    Taking both fish oil and vitamin E has caused me to experience several of the symptoms you are describing. I've had the nose bleeds, low blood pressure and even skin bleeding just from carrying a purse. As it turns out both fish oil and vitamin E are natural blood thinners. This added to my massive spinach consumption (lots of vitamin K which also thins blood).

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                    • #11
                      We're all different, but I can say that in my own experience I used chromium to stabilise / lower blood sugar, so in my mind it wouldn't be good if you're already hypo.
                      Fish oil consumption correlates ( :P ) with very easy bruising. Although I'm very fair, so you can see my veins and stuff anyway maybe it just shows up more!
                      I don't know what resveratrol and melatonin do, but it seems you have a LOT of pills rattling around - beware the rule of unintended consequences.
                      Incidentally, wrt salt, if I use it I use a "low salt" formula as it contains potassium, and that's a mineral that I / we can easily be deficient in.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PeaceMachineGun View Post
                        Awesome Kat!! Thanks so much. Dropping the Chromium, extra E and Turmeric from the Antioxidant. Will lower Pantothenic and Magnesium and keep the Fish Oil.
                        Sounds good.

                        I forgot to mention I'm also taking Vit. D in my Multi (1500 IU + 1000 IU from an extra source - MegaFood D). Most days I'm working inside so I'm assuming this is ok.
                        Probably. But it's really best to test. I do know a very small number of people who are both sun avoidant and who have acheived 25(OH)D levels of 80 ng/mL by taking only 2000 IU vitamin d. It's not common *at all* but it does happen.

                        Also forgot to mention I'm taking Resveratrol and then Melatonin as needed, for sleep. With the Melatonin I'm never taking it more than a week in a row, and actually just recently started. You think there might be any issues with the Melatonin given that I'm on an SSRI?
                        with tryptophan, there would be an issue, with melatonin, no issue afaik.

                        consider dropping the reservatrol for now as that's another compound that will affect blood pressure.

                        And fwiw, the megafoods supps are *so* not worth the price. The whole 'whole foods' supplement thing is essentially a marketing ploy.

                        Also, I'm considering taking HCL(I'm Blood Type A+ and do burp up Fish Oil occasionally), Pancreatic Enzymes, and/or Probiotics (I'm staying away from Yogurt b/c of a dairy issue) for better digestion of my nutrients. Thoughts?
                        I'd do a short course of lecithin (yes yes, i know...it's soy) and digestive enzymes (garden of life Ωzyme / Ozyme / Omegazyme) until your body starts producing enough lipase to deal with it on it's own. It's may be best not to take digestive enzymes indefinitely though....just sort of as needed.

                        If you're up for bone marrow, this would be another incredibly helpful tool in your toolbox. Bone marrow contains.....lecithin! Phospholipids! It'll be of benefit in numerous ways including wrt anxiety and depression issues.

                        (LOL) I'm considering taking a low dose (10-25mg) B Complex on top of my multi which has all the B's. Thoughts again?
                        What multi? What b complex?

                        [quote-]And, I agree with you about the Hypo and being primal. Need to focus more on the food I'm eating it seems. [/quote]

                        Food first. Always food first. Then fill in with supplements

                        At least a gram of protein per lb body weight for you....maybe more. At least 50% of your cals from fat...maybe more. Be sure that you're getting more saturated fat than Ω3 and at least 1:1 Ω3:Ω6.
                        The rest in nonstarchy produce.

                        Since the beginning of July, I've felt as if I've undergone a personality transplant. While I'd quite successfully treated the anxiety disorder, panic attacks and depression for years, I was still an anxious person in general and very very cautious.

                        I did have some extreme anxiety that cropped up while adapting to ketosis.....specifically b/c the switch to ketones as fuel was causing insomnia. I also had one day of crushing depression when readapting to ketosis a second time. But now, not only is all of it gone, but my general nervous nature has calmed really quite dramatically and I'm.....I don't know, just .....just good. Just centered. Comfortable. Calm.

                        And all of those things in the midst of a storm (5 friends having heavy personal this week.....huge life-changing stuff for a couple of them) and I'm good. Previously, I'd have been feeling all of the heavy emotions from their traumas. Totally new to me is this experience of just being able to be empathetic, to love them and support them but still feel fine because ..... I am fine.

                        I'd imagine that if you focus on 'food first' you'll get there very quickly.



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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fortunata1 View Post
                          Taking both fish oil and vitamin E has caused me to experience several of the symptoms you are describing. I've had the nose bleeds, low blood pressure and even skin bleeding just from carrying a purse. As it turns out both fish oil and vitamin E are natural blood thinners. This added to my massive spinach consumption (lots of vitamin K which also thins blood).
                          vitamin K is a clotting factor. It does not thin blood.



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                          • #14
                            >> It's may be best not to take digestive enzymes indefinitely though....just sort of as needed.

                            Cillakat, is this advice intended specifically (i.e., only) for the OP, or is this a general principle? I've done a lot of reading on digestive enzymes, and from what I've read so far, it is often recommended to take them with *every* meal or snack. Do you disagree? Can you cite 1+ sources? Thanks for any info you have.

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                            • #15
                              Peace ---

                              Seemed to me, reading your first post, your blood is too thin.

                              All the rest of the stuff you're worrying about is just the complication of starting a lot of different supplements and strategies at once.

                              Until you're off all medications, I'd postpone the fish oil, the Vitamin E, the turmeric. Be sure you aren't using cinnamon, either. I'd cut down on the vitamin C to about 250 mg. per day, and I'd eat some citrus fruit, like grapefruit or an orange now and then, and nibble on the white inside of the peel for bioflavonoids, which can help with nosebleeds.

                              By having one methyl B12 tablet (under the tongue, allowed to dissolve) at bedtime, and keeping my bedroom extremely dark, I've had good sleep results without melatonin. A magnesium chloride brine ("magnesium oil") rubbed on my skin and later washed off helps with sleep and makes life very mellow, like cillakat just described.

                              How's your digestion?

                              I don't think that a conversion to Primal and getting off of meds and starting an aggressive supplement program makes this the best time to lower carbs a whole lot. If you've given up grains, having a little starch now and then (sweet potatoes, even a small regular potato) should actually help you with the transition. Just eat three reasonable sized well spaced meals a day, and try to avoid snacking, don't eat in the evening, and have a regular bedtime. Your sugars will probably settle down pretty quickly. Once you're taking no more prescription meds, you will probably be able to slowly reintroduce the fish oil, watching to see how you do.

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