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A fasting skeptic speaks... (A chapter of the nut-free saga)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Pessimist View Post
    I can't believe no one has mentioned something of this importance from your post...

    pomegranate-vanilla flavored cashews????

    OMG! I have never heard of such a flavour and am intrigued! I'm glad I haven't been offered anything like that because I think I would have to try them as well.


    Oh ya and IFing and lifiting you may want to check out leangains.com if you haven't already for some info.
    They're really good But... hardly primal, I'm afraid! They're 'Sahale snacks...' and trying them is essentially, well, part of my job! Sahale Snacks just came out with a lot of (freaking amazing sounding) flavors.

    ...go get some next time you feel like giving yourself a not-the-most-primal-but-still-not-pie treat

    -写
    Little Saiyan

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    • #32
      I have to be honest, I have done a daily IF for almost a complete year now and have observed a few things:

      1. After doing a daily IF for almost a year now, an IF never contributed to any body fat loss for me like some people claim that IFs "magically" do; rather, i actually gained weight eating with an IF. I am not sure whether an IF is one of those different strokes for different folks kind of thing, and the evidence for the benefits of IFs were convincimg, but overall I have been disappointed by the lack of results that IFs promise. I do like to train on an empty stomach, and gaines some muscle in the process of incorporating heavy lifting into my exercise routine.

      2. It did make life more convenient as I did not have to wprry about breakfast and lunch amd i stead stuffed my face silly at dinner.
      --
      Here it is, your moment of zen.

      It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by cerebelumsdayoff View Post
        1. After doing a daily IF for almost a year now, an IF never contributed to any body fat loss for me like some people claim that IFs "magically" do; rather, i actually gained weight eating with an IF.
        Sorry it isn't working for you. Those must be some massive meals every night! I don't think anyone claims it's magic. I think Brad at ESE and Martin and Leangains and a few others, even James Krieger's recent piece on insulin not being such a bad actor afterall, all make a very simple and convincing case for the science of IF. No magic needed. Energy balance is what it is though so someone could kick the science to the curb with large enough meals or other metabolic issues.

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        • #34
          I know its an old thread but remember the saying "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper"?

          I'm sure the old wisdom here is that a large meal at night doesn't give you a chance for ample calorie burn-off. When doing IF I usually have breakfast or Lunch and don't eat again until breakfast or lunch the next day. If I deviate I measure the calories in my last meal of the day and am sure to eat it early enough to burn it all off before sleeping. Keeping carbs below 30gm seems to help as well.

          P.S. I work in a grocery store with a famously great bulk section....so I know how ridiculously hard it can be. Toasted pecans glazed in honey....omg....

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          • #35
            IMO, it doesn't reeeeally matter when you eat your calories.
            On the one hand, as you say, it could be argued that you need to eat first thing to fuel the day. For me, it's counter-intuitive and leads to me getting hungry later again and again.
            On the other hand, it could be said that as diurnal hunters we *probably* worked / hunted during the day and feasted at night. This is more intuitive to me, and there's nothing like a snug evening and bed after a fat dinner

            May be different if you have a specific, hard exercise routine I guess.

            Whatever works for ya

            Comment


            • #36
              First off, a worth while link for anybody interested in fasting: http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008...gy-production/ (read all parts, of course)

              I’m a daily IF-er, well at least Monday through Friday I skip breakfast. My day goes as such: wake up around 6:30 am, cup of coffee (maybe – sometimes just water) and I train anywhere from 6:40 to 7:30 or so. I do mostly bodyweight work but work out weighted as well. I shower and off to work. I pack a lunch which I eat around 1pm, depending on when I had my last meal the previous night that typically works out to around 16-18 hrs fasted. I eat again around 6-7pm when I get home, sometimes as late as 9-10pm though eating late doesn’t worry me.

              Now, for the past 2 months or so my eating hasn’t been too clean but I’m confident that if it was I would be pretty low in BF%, maybe not directly attributed to IF, that was more of a general comment on why I can’t say whether IF helps reduce BF% while strictly following a primal/paleo diet.

              For a short while I was taking BCAA pre and post workout so as to promote protein synthesis and to not go without protein/branched chain amino acids during the times when (allegedly) my body needs it the most (pre and post workout) I didn’t notice any significant difference while taking BCAA and I was very disappointed by the amount of product I got, it was only enough for about three weeks of use, not worth the money but looking at other sources for it.

              Why do I keep IF-ing? Well,

              a) as it stands I’m very used to it. Others have mentioned not having to worry about eating breakfast which is honestly very nice as even before being primal I didn’t really want to sit down and eat breakfast everyday. I find when I do have breakfast (on weekends mostly) I find myself eating soon after that, nothing wrong with eating of course, but being in the “fed” state all the time usually makes me tired. I feel more awake and aware when I’m in the fasted state and no matter how paleo or primal my meals are I always get a little drowsy while digesting. I’d rather be drowsy once or twice a day than 3 or 4 times.
              b) Having to pack one lunch for work is more convenient than packing two, and I’m not typically hungry until 1 and that lunch is big enough to keep me full till about 5 which is when I leave. I’ve thought about packing a “breakfast” on my heavier lifting days that has some carbs I can eat around 10am and I might still give that a shot but it would feel forced, also I can’t be taking breaks to eat too many times a day.

              I didn’t originally start IF-ing to lose body fat, and frankly I can’t say that it has done that for me but like I said before I have not been very ‘clean’ or strict in my eating and have allowed for too many a French fry to be consumed. Tsk tsk tsk!

              I don’t think I’ll stop IFing but I also don’t HAVE to IF everyday, given my work schedule it’s just easier to do so. Do I think it’s counter productive to muscle building? Not as long as you’re still eating enough to reach your goals, meal frequency or timing isn’t all it’s jacked up to be, proper nutrients, protein and calories are.
              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by primal_jessjane View Post
                Bah... Fasting isn't a big deal. It helped me to lean out really well, get a grip on my hunger/eating patterns, and it didn't hurt my athletic performance (just made me less dependent on food for energy!) Lately I've stopped eating at around 3 or 4pm, and then won't eat until late morning the following day. I don't really plan it, it just seems to happen that way. Other times it'll be the complete reverse... I'll eat late in the afternoon and evening, and go throughout the day without hunger. And then some days I'm just chowin' down all freaking day. My consensus: If you are FORCING yourself to stop eating (fast), then it is prooobably not a healthy choice on your part and pretty unadvisable. Raphael, I think you had issues with fasting because you went a little too extreme with it, am I right?

                Work with your body. Get in tune with your hunger... Recognize if you are TRULY hungry. Ask yourself, do I really need food or do I just really want to dig into that steak?
                I agree completely with Jess's take.
                Not much to add from me except to state that for the last several weeks I've been doing an 16 hr fast most week days leangains style. I have a scoop of BCAAs prior to a noon Crossfit workout, but otherwise don't eat until PWO 1:30p. Then a big dinner, and perhaps a bedtime snack. On days I don't work out at noon, I'm extending it all the way until dinner. On weekends, I have a late breakfast, perhaps skip lunch, then dinner, etc. I haven't noticed a big jump in energy during workouts, but I haven't had the drop I was expecting. More often than not I'm feeling very strong once I'm going. I definitely feel energetic during the day. Also seem to be losing BF, but haven't measured in a while. THe bottom line for me, like Jess and others have said, is that it's liberating in a way. A few years ago I was into tracking macros and calories and 6 small meals a day. But I was always hungry and always thinking about food. I find this approach psychologically much easier.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by smokiesmik View Post
                  From my understanding so far of IF - much reading done on Whole Health Source: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
                  it is helpful for a couple of things specifically.

                  #1 - If one is trying to lose significant weight it is the only thing found (according to Stephan at WHS) that can actually change the fat set point. He provides a 3 part series on this specifically.
                  If you have links to Stephan at WHS making these comments I would love to see them. In his lengthy interview with Chris at Healthy Skeptic he said he didn't know of any evidence supporting IF, but that it does seem to work for some people. http://bit.ly/cgH1mj Sorry, I couldn't easily find the time when he mentions this.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-setpoint.html
                    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...anisms-of.html
                    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...i-dietary.html
                    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-changing.html

                    He mentions IF at 53:40 in the podcast.


                    As for intuitiveness....

                    "Dr. Turek notes that humans evolved from a situation where they ate and foraged between sunrise and sunset. “After sunset, there were no refrigerators, no food just hanging around,” he said. “You didn’t eat. But today, people eat most of their calories after sunset.”

                    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...o-weight-gain/

                    Seems as if the energy from food eaten at night wouldn't have anywhere to go especially coupled to an insulin response would contribute to weight gain. Of course it probably depends on a multitude of issues like resting metabolic rate, insulin sensitivity, stress/inflammation/immune system.
                    Last edited by Mayhem; 08-30-2010, 02:10 PM.

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                    • #40
                      I've done the odd IF here and there, mine are from after lunch through to breakfast next day so around 16-18 hrs. I never had a lot of weight that I wanted to lose, so I wasnt doing it for that. I was intrigued by them after reading so much on the forums. For me its like some kind of mental test, can I actually get through the evening without actually eating any food (or more to the point, without a glass of wine ). But yes, I can, the hunger thing, for me at least, I decided was more boredom. Sure my stomach would grumble a bit but I wasnt starving. The only difference I see in my IF's to others is that I just eat regular meals afterwards, I dont have some massive refeed or anything, just a normal breakfast of bacon and eggs or omelette like I would any other day. I'm not into lifting or anything, never noticed any changes in my energy level. For me, it was purely a test of my mental strength, with the added bonus that I feel like I'm giving my digestion a bit of a rest.

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                      • #41
                        I fast daily. Been doing it for a few months now. I feel much stronger and have leaned out more. Sooo convenient as well. Will eat this way for the rest of my life. It's like we were meant to eat this way.
                        "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                        "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Grol View Post
                          Sorry it isn't working for you. Those must be some massive meals every night! I don't think anyone claims it's magic. I think Brad at ESE and Martin and Leangains and a few others, even James Krieger's recent piece on insulin not being such a bad actor afterall, all make a very simple and convincing case for the science of IF. No magic needed. Energy balance is what it is though so someone could kick the science to the curb with large enough meals or other metabolic issues.
                          Agree. James insulin series was enlightening and will likely draw some negative attention, but like I said, I thought it was great.
                          sigpic
                          In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by EGYnutrition View Post
                            Agree. James insulin series was enlightening and will likely draw some negative attention, but like I said, I thought it was great.
                            Very interesting.
                            "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                            "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              IF-ing absolutely raises testosterone levels, so it might be advisable for a lifter to do it, say, weekly on a rest day..

                              Also fine for a person on a cut. I love it, personally.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Lojasmo View Post
                                IF-ing absolutely raises testosterone levels, so it might be advisable for a lifter to do it, say, weekly on a rest day..

                                Also fine for a person on a cut. I love it, personally.
                                Yep yep
                                "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                                "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                                Comment

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