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  • cause of enamel loss?

    Recently, I noticed darker areas of tooth, especially on all my bottom molars, near the gum (looks like a thin stripe). I don't know when this started happening but I think its connected to a change in diet:

    From nearly half a year this was my diet:
    -nearly paleo/primal (occasional dairy from grassfed cheese),
    -grainfed meat, small intake of bad PUFAs (family insists on using vegetable oil)
    -VLC, carbs mainly came from vegetables, avocado, and very rarely, blueberries
    -90% cooked, raw animal food a few times a week in form of sashimi

    When summer started, I went to live at a relative's home in a subtropical country
    -1 serving of fruit 3-5 times a week (guava, wax apple, coconut, durian etc,)
    -pretty much no raw meat/fish
    -One 24-30 hr fast a week
    -no grains but I probably had higher intake of bad PUFAs/sodium due to relative's cooking style
    -no cheese but I ate grassfed butter
    -less fresh seafood (canned fish)

    Other stuff: Stress/sleep/exercise time improved during summer and I brush teeth with water only. I also take no supplements (hard to get where I live and I can't afford them). Getting hold of organ meats is also hard so I rarely eat any organs.

    I think the long period without sweet fruit, and then suddenly adding some fruit back in was the main factor in causing the enamel loss. Before summer though, I already had a little enamel loss for while (1-2 years before seriously eating paleo) on my front teeth. I also didn't get a sugar rush after the fruit and I usually ate higher Gi fruit with some fat. And even after I eating primal/paleo, I still have hard white plaque forming behind my front teeth. Any theories/suggestions?
    Last edited by kanotim; 07-17-2010, 01:20 AM.

  • #2
    "...and I brush teeth with water only."

    I know the no-extra-toiletries thing is big around here, but the "darker areas of tooth, especially on all my bottom molars, near the gum (looks like a thin stripe)" is almost certainly tartar buildup.

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    • #3
      Well, if I touch the darker areas, it feels flat and smooth, like tooth. The darker areas look like the color of regular tooth, just darker. If I look closely on one of my teeth, the dark color looks like a crack like pattern (but its definitely not a real crack). It doesn't look like or feel like the tartar behind my front teeth, which was present when I used to brush with regular toothpaste. I also floss regularly.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kanotim View Post
        Well, if I touch the darker areas, it feels flat and smooth, like tooth. The darker areas look like the color of regular tooth, just darker. If I look closely on one of my teeth, the dark color looks like a crack like pattern (but its definitely not a real crack). It doesn't look like or feel like the tartar behind my front teeth, which was present when I used to brush with regular toothpaste. I also floss regularly.
        Hmm. Well, then maybe not.

        Sounded like tartar. Sorry. Good luck.

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        • #5
          reflux - even sub-clinical -will cause what you describe....as loss of enamel, and eventually cavities at the gumline.



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          • #6
            The enamel loss and post nasal drip appear to be my only matching symptoms that match reflux so its unlikely I have reflux. I don't burp very often.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kanotim View Post
              The enamel loss and post nasal drip appear to be my only matching symptoms that match reflux so its unlikely I have reflux. I don't burp very often.
              I had no symptoms...except the enamel loss. and the post nasal drip. and the throat clearing. I didn't and don't have the burping/gassy thing. I never had burning sensations.

              I did some allergy testing, treated the allergies with meds and nasal irrigation and had no reduction in the post nasal drip and throat clearing.

              And then one day, after 10 years of 'no symptoms', I had my first symptomatic episode of GERD. Over the course of three days, it became clear to me that it was reflux all along and the scary bad episode was my catalyist to finally ditch grains and suga

              At first, it did help tremendously. But 10 weeks in, it's clear to me that I'm still having issues....it's worse when I eat more fat. Digestive enzymes help some but not completely. If it's still an issue by next April, a nissen (or other) fundoplication is the route I'll choose.

              I hadn't had a cavity in.....20 years? 25 years? Then, in spite of my *meticulous and frequent* oral hygiene, I developed mutiple cavities: one needing a root canal and crown, two others requiring crowns and two requiring fillings. Insane! It took 5-10 years after first noticing the gumline enamel loss before the real cavities started showing up.



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              • #8
                Originally posted by cillakat View Post
                I had no symptoms...except the enamel loss. and the post nasal drip. and the throat clearing. I didn't and don't have the burping/gassy thing. I never had burning sensations.

                I did some allergy testing, treated the allergies with meds and nasal irrigation and had no reduction in the post nasal drip and throat clearing.

                And then one day, after 10 years of 'no symptoms', I had my first symptomatic episode of GERD. Over the course of three days, it became clear to me that it was reflux all along and the scary bad episode was my catalyist to finally ditch grains and suga

                At first, it did help tremendously. But 10 weeks in, it's clear to me that I'm still having issues....it's worse when I eat more fat. Digestive enzymes help some but not completely. If it's still an issue by next April, a nissen (or other) fundoplication is the route I'll choose.

                I hadn't had a cavity in.....20 years? 25 years? Then, in spite of my *meticulous and frequent* oral hygiene, I developed mutiple cavities: one needing a root canal and crown, two others requiring crowns and two requiring fillings. Insane! It took 5-10 years after first noticing the gumline enamel loss before the real cavities started showing up.
                Yikes, very informative. I will definitely keep your experience in mind. Also how can be sure if he/she or really has acid reflux? Is there a safe test? Ironically after my last post, I burped several times. This was one hour after a large meal following a fast. I ate several types of food with all sorts of different seasonings- possibily too much food combining in a too large meal. Also ate some fat straight up. I going to eat simpler meals tomorrow and see what happens. Also, I think I'll reduce fruit consumption due to the sugar. Forgot to mention, but I've had some digestion issues for the past month or so.

                BTW, while searching acid reflux, I came upon this westonaprice article about reflux. Dunno if you have read it but its an interesting read:
                http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-d...-red-flag.html
                Last edited by kanotim; 07-17-2010, 07:39 AM.

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                • #9
                  You might find something to help at the supplied link:


                  http://www.communicationagents.com/s...istry_prof.htm
                  In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

                  shotgun always wins.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gator View Post
                    You might find something to help at the supplied link:


                    http://www.communicationagents.com/s...istry_prof.htm
                    While I don't have time for a detailed analysis, the most glaring error there is that they confuse correlation with causation. I'd agree heartily that adding flouride to drinking water was not a beneficial public health meausre but the cause of the skeletal and dental issues that have arisen are due in large part to the growing vitamin D deficiency over the same time period.
                    Last edited by cillakat; 07-18-2010, 05:31 AM.



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                    • #11
                      I was a sailor for nearly 10 years and spent another 6 years in the Caribbean. That was followed by just over 10 years in Southern California. I was always on the water. I was always in the sun. I definitely did not lack vitamin D. I have been told by various medical people in hospitals in the Caribbean, on the west coast and the east coast and now in the southwest that my bendable bones and crunchable teeth are due to excess absorption of fluoride. I tend to believe my personal history more than any books or magazine articles or opinions of chemical sales personel. Even people who endorse fluoride admit that ingesting that poison has no utility. There is some value in coating teeth with it.

                      Maybe those doctors lied to me, so I would enjoy reading the detailed analysis though.
                      In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

                      shotgun always wins.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gator View Post
                        I was a sailor for nearly 10 years and spent another 6 years in the Caribbean. That was followed by just over 10 years in Southern California. I was always on the water. I was always in the sun.
                        Just some other interesting things to think about. There is some evidence that Vitamin D during the fetal period plays critical role in determining tooth strength over the course of ones life. A tiny amount of A as well as sufficient minerals (esp Ca, Mg, Zn and Boron) are also likely players.

                        How much D were you exposed to during the fetal period? Early childhood? And in conjunction with biologically appropriate amounts of A, Ca, Mg, Zn and Boron?

                        Here's my fun N=2
                        For me, it wasnt' much. (wrt to the D) I was born in Michigan in March. Mom was a speech pathologist - so indoors midday. She avoided sun fairly meticulously and probably started the pregnancy with lower levels of D than was typical at the time. Throughout the pregnancy, no doubt her D levels continued in a free fall. I have craptastic teeth.....they look okay and my dad did a great job on the orthodontia (see pic) but they're just not strong teeth.

                        When she was pregnant with my brother two years later she was outside with me a lot, increasing her D significantly in the early stages of her pregnancy *and* she had two tropical vacations during that pregnancy that no doubt boosted her D levels in profound ways. Dear brother historically had horrible oral hygiene (though no longer), ate popsicles, oatmeal, peanut butter bread and butter growing up (very very picky) and never had a cavity. Ever.

                        We both lived in cities with flouridated water. Both were likely infected with S. mutans. The major difference was our prenatal D exposure.

                        "Even people who endorse fluoride admit that ingesting that poison has no utility."

                        I'd agree that it has no utility.

                        Best,
                        Katherine



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                        • #13
                          Cillakat:

                          No idea of what happened during my fetal period. It was dark in there and I didn't understand most of what I heard. No way to ever get to see a paper.

                          Early childhood was in Philadelphia, summers always at Ocean City, New Jersey. Started every school year cinnamon brown and finished looking more like cream.

                          At 19, I went to sea with the intention of seeing a bit of the world and then going to college. Spent a lot more time 'seeing the world' than I originally planned. It was all good though.

                          My mother was a health nut when health nuts were really considered NUTS. We ate whole foods. Of course almost everyone did back then in the 'old' days. (I am not a spring chicken). So I feel fairly certain that I would have had proper nutrients in sufficient amounts.

                          A good friend of mine, also from Philadelphia, has the same problem with his teeth.
                          He, too,had been told that he has suffered from fluoride poisoning. We share problems not only of teeth and bones, but also arthritic joints. Just about all we have in common is Philadelphia cheese steaks, and Philadelphia water. Almost forgot--and a history of a lot of SCUBA
                          In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

                          shotgun always wins.

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