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  • #31
    Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
    Really guys? You want to live 100+ years while eating a miserable amount of food? What kind of life is that.
    Interesting question. What is a miserable amount of food? In my life that has always been too much. I can't remember thinking a little food making me feel miserable. I think people tend to obsess about food and over eat. I want to live a 100 years eating a healthy and comfortable amount of food, and that appears to be way less than CW advises -- for me anyway.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by rphlslv View Post

      Personally I'd rather live 10 years as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.
      Me too, but even better I would rather live 100 as a lion. Sheep eat all day every day. They are obsessed with food and only stop eating when they sleep. Lion's eat every three or four days, and when they do, they feast.

      I consider what I am doing intermittent feasting, eating like a king, like a lion, the king of beasts.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
        I was just saying that fasting everyday and living off a calorie deficit just to reach 100+ years is a little overboard.
        I was under the impression that those who fast everyday DON'T live off a calorie deficit. I know I don't.

        But then again, I would have to term my how I eat "undereating then overeating". I only do one real fast a week.

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        • #34
          I don't know where to start with that article because Matt said a lot of good things but he also gets a lot wrong, imo. I'm not going to critique it, but the adrenal fatigue through diet idea seems like mostly nonsense to me.

          Adrenal fatigue a money maker for quacks
          Does it exist?
          low carb and catecholamine
          A long balanced discussion

          So super stressful situations like the loss of a loved one, or a divorce, or losing a job, or such seem to stress certain people beyond their coping mechanisms. Too much exercise and too little food may or may not generate similar burn outs. I don't see how this applies to anyone following PB. We're not to over exercise or under eat. Quality of food and quality of life is all part of the package. I push IFing to extremes, but I don't have the slightest concern about adrenal issues. I am getting better not worse, stronger not weaker, healthier not sicker. Sheesh. Obsess much, Matt?
          ... and make your decision based on your own biofeedback.
          I agree with this 100%. It seems we're a bunch of square pegs trying to get everyone else to fit into round holes that work for us. If I eat three meals a day, I gain weight. Period. If I eat one, I lose. If I do alternate day fasting like the super healthy long lived rats in the research, I lose faster, feel better, and experience the exact opposite of the so called symptoms of adrenal fatigue. It's hooey to me. I think it's unhealthy for me to make food a significant part of my life. When I eat, I want to eat great healthy food, but eating is a very small amount of my time spent living. Skipping breakfast and lunch increases the quality of my life.

          I'm also looking forward to discussing calorie restriction around here soon. I think the FDA and RDAs have always been driven by the food industry, not optimum health. I think RDA numbers from minor nutrients to calories are all screwed up. We need way more of some things and way less of others. One we probably need less of is calories. Calorie restriction is not miserable when done right. It's liberating. It provides a sense of well being that I love. I've read in detail about the lives of people practicing it for longevity purposes. They are happy. None of them are backsliding to higher intakes. They are healthy. They practice optimum nutrition and they increase calories when they increase energy expenditure.

          CRON - Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition


          CRON people speak to my inner Grok as much as PB does. I've struggled with weight issues since I left college 26 years ago. For the past 8 I have been struggling with health issues and seriously morbid obesity. I was never lazy. I tried many many times to get fit. I followed the CW yo yo path as effectively as Oprah. I believe the Cron folks can benefit from primal principles and IF. I believe some PBers who fit my profile even loosely can benefit from Cron, and I am talking about quality if life. Stalling aging and disease is not being miserable. It's being healthy and active longer.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Grol View Post
            I don't know where to start with that article because Matt said a lot of good things but he also gets a lot wrong, imo. I'm not going to critique it, but the adrenal fatigue through diet idea seems like mostly nonsense to me.

            Adrenal fatigue a money maker for quacks
            Does it exist?
            low carb and catecholamine
            A long balanced discussion

            So super stressful situations like the loss of a loved one, or a divorce, or losing a job, or such seem to stress certain people beyond their coping mechanisms. Too much exercise and too little food may or may not generate similar burn outs. I don't see how this applies to anyone following PB. We're not to over exercise or under eat. Quality of food and quality of life is all part of the package. I push IFing to extremes, but I don't have the slightest concern about adrenal issues. I am getting better not worse, stronger not weaker, healthier not sicker. Sheesh. Obsess much, Matt?


            I agree with this 100%. It seems we're a bunch of square pegs trying to get everyone else to fit into round holes that work for us. If I eat three meals a day, I gain weight. Period. If I eat one, I lose. If I do alternate day fasting like the super healthy long lived rats in the research, I lose faster, feel better, and experience the exact opposite of the so called symptoms of adrenal fatigue. It's hooey to me. I think it's unhealthy for me to make food a significant part of my life. When I eat, I want to eat great healthy food, but eating is a very small amount of my time spent living. Skipping breakfast and lunch increases the quality of my life.

            I'm also looking forward to discussing calorie restriction around here soon. I think the FDA and RDAs have always been driven by the food industry, not optimum health. I think RDA numbers from minor nutrients to calories are all screwed up. We need way more of some things and way less of others. One we probably need less of is calories. Calorie restriction is not miserable when done right. It's liberating. It provides a sense of well being that I love. I've read in detail about the lives of people practicing it for longevity purposes. They are happy. None of them are backsliding to higher intakes. They are healthy. They practice optimum nutrition and they increase calories when they increase energy expenditure.

            CRON - Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition


            CRON people speak to my inner Grok as much as PB does. I've struggled with weight issues since I left college 26 years ago. For the past 8 I have been struggling with health issues and seriously morbid obesity. I was never lazy. I tried many many times to get fit. I followed the CW yo yo path as effectively as Oprah. I believe the Cron folks can benefit from primal principles and IF. I believe some PBers who fit my profile even loosely can benefit from Cron, and I am talking about quality if life. Stalling aging and disease is not being miserable. It's being healthy and active longer.
            This was fantastic to read this morning. Very well said.

            Comment


            • #36
              Good points everyone. Like I said, I think the wisest thing you can take from his posts are to balance the yin and the yang; that probably means focusing on more recovery for everyone.
              sigpic
              In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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              • #37
                Yes, EGY, I appreciate that you are helping by sharing info you have. I still consider myself very new to IF and CR, and find expirementing with different methods very fun.

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                • #38
                  No problemo! I think the best way for us all to experience amazing health is to read and understand lots of material and opinions, and then pick and choose the best advice from each person and work it into our daily lives. No such thing as impossible!

                  Stabby! If you're still checking this thread out, I think Matt's blog is right up your alley. Knowing you, you probably already read it. Im going back through the archives and reading every post right now, lots of good info!
                  sigpic
                  In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                  • #39
                    I also feel it improves my quality of life. Skipping breakfast just works, but to each his own.

                    Im pretty sure our bodies can handle fasting, it's called evolution, through homeostasis, i think our body can more than cope with not eat regularly. In fact i'd say its more natural than eating every four hours. I dont think that grok carried around a power bar on his long treks through the primal world. He most definitely went days without any form of sustenance.

                    I would say we are much more resilient than we give ourselves credit for, of course that's not to say that some people arent more susceptible to adrenal fatigue than others.
                    "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                    "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by EGYnutrition View Post
                      Good points everyone. Like I said, I think the wisest thing you can take from his posts are to balance the yin and the yang; that probably means focusing on more recovery for everyone.
                      Absolutely. Despite my contrary thinking on a few things, Matt has a real healthy balance that we can all probably benefit from. Thanks for posting that. It will keep me reading 180.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        i keep reading because i do think he is onto something. he is willing to read like ever study in existence and report about it, test himself as an experiment....that's crazy and much more than most people here would do. most would like to 'sit back and wait' for the finale. i know i wouldnt use myself as a test rat going from ZC, to fasting, to a fruit diet to a raw milk diet... i mean yikes.

                        one thing about his conclusions though, he is a healthy individual, with an obviously strong body/immune system and metabolism...so his conclusions arent exactly going to benefit to many people. had he ever 'suffered' anything and could draw off that it would be better(not that i think he should get sick lol)
                        Get on my Level
                        http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                        • #42
                          Low-carb diets, for example, raise catecholamines really well, suppress your appetite, burn fat like crazy with no lean losses, and can make you feel tremendously amazing with great mental focus and energy. But people often get seduced by these great feelings, and with the panacea attributed to low-carb diets that's given by low-carb and now Paleo authors and health educators, people do low-carb diets until they hit the plateau of all plateaus and feel like absolute crap - often with health problems like food allergies, horrendous athletic performance, insomnia, and digestive problems - not to mention an uncanny ability to gain weight at the end of that rainbow.

                          This could all be called "negative metabolic adaptation" to anything that keeps catecholamines constantly elevated, which includes low-calorie diets with no reprieve or "re-feed," low-carb diets without "carb cycling" (eating a big, high-carbohydrate meal once every 2-3 days), overexercising (particularly long-duration cardio without enough rest days), and so forth.
                          They go on to recommend Rob Faigin's Natural Hormone Enhancement. Does anyone have any experience with that?
                          Apathy is tyranny's greatest ally.

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                          • #43
                            I don't have experience with it, but when I looked up his site it wasn't about supplementing with natural hormones from what I could grab. It was about optimizing them naturally (exercise, diet, ect...)

                            Just thought I would clear that up
                            sigpic
                            In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
                              Really guys? You want to live 100+ years while eating a miserable amount of food? What kind of life is that.

                              Who said you must eat a miserable amount of food with IF? I can easily put away 2500 calories in one sitting when doing IF. Secondly, food does taste better and give greater pleasure when you eat after building up the hunger inside. This experience is very similar to other human experiences, putting off something to receive a greater reward later by building up the tension.

                              How miserable would it be living to 100 eating 6 puny meals a day while not experience any real tension, any real hunger..just small meals all day, sucking the time out of your life and making eating an all day entertainment thing like TV and internet to fill the void?

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                              • #45
                                Yes I like 180 degree health. I disagree with him on his approach to weight loss since there is an obvious window of opportunity for very low carb being super affective and so it would make sense to recommend a month or so of low carb followed by his overfeeding thing. Usually people balloon up for a month eating tons of carbs and calories for the first month so if that month can be spent getting nutrition up and reducing inflammation, it will likely have a better effect. Theoretically anyway.

                                I will admit to being part of the "Matt Stone is a douchebag" camp for a little bit and then being won over. Heh.
                                Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                                Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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