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  • #16
    Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
    Personally I'd rather live 10 years as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.
    ill take option #3 and live 70-80 years as a human.

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    • #17
      There are a lot of factors that can have an impact on longevity. Stuff that is so bad for us that the less the better like polyunsaturates, junk grains, and the like. Humans cook their food which means that we have tons of cellular protection against reactive oxygen species (we really really do), humans consuming these low calorie diets will almost certainly be nutrient deficient, which doesn't help anyone, and we need those nutrients for recovery and defense against bad stuff.
      methionine, tryptophan, and cysteine restriction produce huge results in longevity, and so does IFing that amounts to the same amount of total calories. The very high fat deal is promising as it constantly supplies the material for repair, and collagen proteins like gelatin can be in a part a replacement for the muscle meat. We can take various supplements like alpha-lipoic acid to regenerate glutathione and we can get a lot of really useful stuff from ruminant animals like l-carnitine, CLA, and such.

      So I suspect that while caloric restriction may have some uses, perhaps the better path would be to mimic what is good about it without actually starving ourselves. Body hax, if you will. Grokologist will likely have some good stuff to say about this in the future.

      I kind of agree with Matt stone that overfeeding is a very useful tool temporarily. There are cases of mitochondria in mice being genetically engineered to become more efficient and do more with less energy while producing less ROS. So if we can mimic that, possibly with a temporary over-feed, we will be better off for it.

      That's mostly speculation but my point is that caloric restriction is not necessarily necessary.

      edit: and if we end up restricting calories it will be because of such efficieny and good leptin signaling rather than some maniacal restriction scheme.
      Last edited by Stabby; 07-13-2010, 12:14 PM.
      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
        I was just saying that fasting everyday and living off a calorie deficit just to reach 100+ years is a little overboard.
        yes i agree!! thats why i agreed with you earlier when you said an ideal situation would be a mixture of fasts and CR, with periods of non-fasting and higher calories. i think you nailed it there.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lmyers04 View Post
          yes i agree!! thats why i agreed with you earlier when you said an ideal situation would be a mixture of fasts and CR, with periods of non-fasting and higher calories. i think you nailed it there.
          Aha got you.
          .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
          ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
            Really guys? You want to live 100+ years while eating a miserable amount of food? What kind of life is that.
            Ignorant of me to say so, but I could care-less about longevity in myself. Im much more interested in living more in the years I have.
            sigpic
            In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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            • #21
              I see no reason why we can't have our cake and eat it, too.

              Although there will probably not be much cake unless someone has a good coconut flour recipe.
              Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

              Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                That's mostly speculation but my point is that caloric restriction is not necessarily necessary.
                Isn't there a theory that caloric restriction is beneficial because induces IF? The animals eat all their restricted food before the day is over and fast the rest of the time.
                Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

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                • #23
                  Heh, I wouldn't be surprised. MolGrok said that caloric restriction is "legit", but then there's also some evidence that IFing is legit too. And some more evidence that lots of stuff can be restricted regardless of calories, so caloric restricton doesn't seem all that appealing. If we can get very leptin sensitive and spend a month or so of cramming as much healthy food into our mouths as possible, then we're not going to have much of a tendency to eat a lot of food anyway. Smaller meals are satisfying and sustaining.
                  Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                  Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Matt said "Like anything, both approaches have benefits and drawbacks, so I guess the main thing is to not get blindsided by one theory vs. the other, but hold on to your own decision-making power - and make your decision based on your own biofeedback."

                    I think that's the best statement of advice I've seen yet and can be applied to all theories! Just sums it up for me.
                    Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

                    - Robert Louis Stevenson

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                    • #25
                      That's what I like about him and his site. He's tried a lot of approaches, many extreme, so when he comes across one, he's not going to BS you. And I like the heavy adrenal relation he puts on the site, makes for an interesting read.

                      I guess if anything this just emphasizes recovery even more.

                      Sleeping, sunlight, walking, relaxing, and playing. I think I'll do all those within the next 24!
                      sigpic
                      In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                      • #26
                        Oh well, i love chillin all day, and putting down a huge meal in one sitting. That's just my opinion. I am quite satisfied any way i look at it.
                        "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                        "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

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                        • #27
                          I don't really think that an IF necessarily equals caloric restrictions. From what I have read about IF, it is not eating less, but simply waiting a specific period of time before eating all your necessary calories.
                          --
                          Here it is, your moment of zen.

                          It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum

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                          • #28
                            yup! what cerebelum said. I read you practiced the warrior diet =)
                            "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                            "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheGrappler View Post
                              yup! what cerebelum said. I read you practiced the warrior diet =)
                              I sure did! Although I now go with the leangains approach which simply gives me a slightly longer eating window, I still enjoy stuffing my face daily after a nice long fast!
                              --
                              Here it is, your moment of zen.

                              It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Agreed, cerebellumsdayoff.

                                It's critical to note that intermittent fasting is NOT caloric restriction. While you can be pretty sure to live longer if you cut yourself off at every meal while you are still hungry, there's nothing about IF that says you need to do the same.

                                Personally, IF just WORKS for me. Due to some weird quirk, I can wake up every morning and go the entire day without eating, and I won't feel a bit of hunger doing so. But... as soon as I have my first bite to eat, I am ravenously hungry after a couple hours without food and remain so for the remainder of the day.

                                So to say that IF is miserable (as CR surely is) is too much of a generalization. I eat two meals a day - lunch and dinner during the week, breakfast and dinner on the weekends - plus one 24-hour fast each week, eating until I am full (sometimes obscenely full) every time, and I doubt I feel hungry more than the average person does.
                                Lean, Mean, Virile Machine
                                The Modern Man's Guide to Health, Fitness, and Wellness

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