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The China Study... DESTROYED!

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  • The China Study... DESTROYED!

    Hey everyone,

    I'm surprised to see this hasn't popped up in the forum yet (to my knowledge), but Denise Minger over at Raw Food SOS has posted an exhaustive deconstruction of the China Study and found that T. Colin Campbell took some huge liberties in interpreting the data. This post really seems to be blowing up and will definitely go down as the definitive comeback to those who don't understand our meat-eating ways and bring up Dr. Campbell's work as "proof." It's a bit on the long side, but definitely worth a read. (She really has a way of making statistics engaging!)

    Here's the link to her post: The China Study: Fact or Fallacy?


    Here's my thoughts from my site: The China Study Toppled - A Tale of the Confirmation Bias

    And Richard at Free the Animal has been covering this heavily. Here's a link to a post linking a lot of the people talking about this: The China Study Smackdown Roundup
    Lean, Mean, Virile Machine
    The Modern Man's Guide to Health, Fitness, and Wellness

  • #2
    Great links and posts re the China Study. I read The China Study when it came out and noted how readily Campbell assumed that problems noted with diary proteins would apply to other animal proteins as well, in the absence of scientific backup. But what you have supplied via these links goes far beyond noting such superficial problems and goes to the heart everything that Campbell promotes. Thank you for this excellent contribution.

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    • #3
      Yeah that was some pretty nice stabbing. I do love a good stabbing.

      I kind of always took the China Study's (the book's) purported statistics and correlations to be valid on their face, because even if they were it still doesn't mean a thing. You can't use epidemiology to prove a positive causation. We see this in world-wide epidemiology. Meat is a marker of affluence and so is sugar. They will usually correlate nicely and yet we have no way of isolating our variables. And that's when I ask for some sort of mechanism or plausible explanation but all I get are more correlations or perhaps some obscure low-grade metabolic dysfunction (palmitic acid causes leptin resistance!!1) sort of thing. But if their statistics were blatant cherry-picked miss-representations I guess that is that. But that was that already. No doubt this will have no relevance convincing militant vegans of anything. Especially ones who bought and read the book, admitting that a book you've put time into studying is complete bs is hard enough in the absence of ideological vegan dogma.

      Kurt Harris' take was my favorite.
      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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      • #4
        And from a link within one of the great links . . .

        http://bradmarshall.blogspot.com/200...ion-maybe.html

        Wheat and other non-rice grain consumption is the strongest predictor of heart attack from the source data relied upon for the China Study. Meat is NOT. But we didn't hear anything about that, even a hint, in the book, did we? A vegan propaganda piece. Great work, links, and posts.

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        • #5
          Thanks for sharing this link. I completed my health coaching certification at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition in July 2009 (and for a lack of a better word) was "brainwashed" into thinking I needed to eat more vegetarian fare for good health. I reversed my type II diabetes 5 years ago using The Zone Diet and 10 hours a week of intense cardio and weight lifting. Then I started adding more complex carbs and less meat in the last 2 years. My diabetes did not return but I packed on the pounds -- almost 20 of them! Dr. Campbell actually taught during my program at IIN but so did Sally Fallon and Barry Sears. Now that I am going primal, I am listening to my body again not the popular hippie notion. I plan to listen to Sally Fallon's lecture again on raw milk and healthy saturated fats as I have found a raw milk collective in my community.
          Cheers, Primal-Belle

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          • #6
            Here's what I don't get - no one, even a raw vegan, would promote soy formula over breastmilk (ANIMAL FOOD) for babies. And vegans are all about fasts and cleanses (which uses ANIMAL FAT and gluconeogenesis from ANIMAL PROTEIN from one's BUM to fuel). So where is the magical moment when animal becomes horrible for health and all plant becomes ideal?

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            • #7
              this was demolished by the fact that every chinese person I've ever met eats pork.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bisous View Post
                Here's what I don't get - no one, even a raw vegan, would promote soy formula over breastmilk (ANIMAL FOOD) for babies. And vegans are all about fasts and cleanses (which uses ANIMAL FAT and gluconeogenesis from ANIMAL PROTEIN from one's BUM to fuel). So where is the magical moment when animal becomes horrible for health and all plant becomes ideal?
                Thank you for this creative thinking. I cannot wait to discuss it with my vegan friends.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
                  this was demolished by the fact that every chinese person I've ever met eats pork.
                  I had a traditional Chinese meal with a Chinese exhange student friend. It was red meat (I can't remember what one exactly) and veggies cooked in butter. So much for the 'they all eat rice and soy' argument.
                  A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
                    this was demolished by the fact that every chinese person I've ever met eats pork.
                    Ah yes, the most widely consumed type of meat in the world. And out of all the places, China eats the most pork in the world! Mmmm Chinese bacon.
                    --
                    Here it is, your moment of zen.

                    It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum

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                    • #11
                      I was reading a raw vegan forum (for some reason) and after reading the posts on teeth falling out, I nearly lost my mind. (i can't post on your forum because I most certainly do not have the right stuff, but teeth falling out can certainly mean there is an issue with the diet!). Fortunately I was able to come back here and rant a bit. Ah. Sweet rational science.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bisous View Post
                        I was reading a raw vegan forum (for some reason) and after reading the posts on teeth falling out, I nearly lost my mind. (i can't post on your forum because I most certainly do not have the right stuff, but teeth falling out can certainly mean there is an issue with the diet!). Fortunately I was able to come back here and rant a bit. Ah. Sweet rational science.
                        it's a sad sad sad state of affairs those folks have got themselves in.

                        fortunately I hate them all, and wish them nothing but horror, and ugly, ugly pain.

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                        • #13
                          Denise has another post up about the China study. Everyone get over there and support her.
                          A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                          • #14
                            Bumping this thread again for statistics nutters. Denise has provided some data sets in her comment section if you want to run your own analyses. I did and found the same things she found.
                            A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                            • #15
                              I've also been following her analysis (the best I can). It's great. Using the same data and methodologies that Campbell used, Denise basically says the data simply doesn't support his conclusions because he doesn't control for confounders. Instead, he uses the raw data and cherry picks to support his theories.

                              She is currently using the same data and methods to analyze wheat.

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