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Calories vs calories...??

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  • Calories vs calories...??

    Ok so the more reading I do….i am convinced it ‘is’ about calories, persay, in a way. Each day, hormonally/physically/genetically my body (or your body) needs X amount of fuel to run efficiently and healthy. Therefore, water weight/sodium aside, whether I get my X amount of primal food from protein, fat or carbs is not an issue. Do people cut the carbs because of the lost water weight, because they can control their appetite better thus eat less calories and food, or what? I am also unconvinced that something like diabetes is cured through lowered carb intake. That simply controls your appetite and thus, makes you more insulin resistant. I do think insulin resistance and screwed thyroid/hormones can be overcome through the right diet and foods and nutrients.

    From my perspective, and I am hoping people explain or further this, when one goes from glucose running to fatty acids running, the body for a short time ‘spares’ fat calories coming in in the absence of carbs and uses up the bodies carb stores not wanting to ‘switch.’ When the switch is made, it is again about calories and how much food you are eating. This is why that famous 5,000 calorie a day Jeff guy on the magic school bus forum didn’t gain weight…his body was not yet keto-adapted. I think if he re-performed the experiment now if he is keto adapted he would gain weight.

    I also think this in essence is why bodybuilders ‘have it right’ and know how exactly to work the body. They use keto dieting and working out through the week, or cyclically, until they deplete every last glucose source in their bodies, and then re-feed(not that they do this part correctly b/c it is mostly junk food and not primal) thus switching the body from fatty acid to glucose metabolism. So, my thinking is this keeps the body guessing, thus there is always somewhat of a sparring effect going on. Yes, they store ___ lbs through a reefed due to the water storing effect of carbs, but once they get back to keto and their workouts, then water is again lost, fat temporarily spared, and muscle is ultimately gained.

    Im not saying at ALL that 24/7 keto is good or bad, or that you cant make gains with it. I am just trying to put together the puzzle pieces.
    Any input??
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    http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

  • #2
    Sounds like a plausible theory to me. I agree. It's the calories that count the most. Some ppl dont wanna hear that becauss they think theyve found some magic bullet that bypasses caloric intake and weight control.
    "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

    "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

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    • #3
      thanks...still not sure why so many are gung ho to low carb though... fructose via fruit like berries is not the same fructose you find in a coke. starch via a squash is not the same starch you find in a soft pretzel. elevated insulin from diabetes or a carb-filled PRIMAL meal is the result of either too much fat with carbs, or just too much food for your body to immediately use. i dont think eating should be high fat/high carb together because well, you wouldnt be eating much b/c it IS about calories. hmmmmmmm
      Get on my Level
      http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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      • #4
        I agree that calories likely matter. But I can tell you I easily eat less calories when I go low-carb. I don't know why, but I am fuller on fewer calories (even though they say that grains are 'bulky') when I eat more fat and less carbs. My old caloric intake was 1800-2000 easy, and now I am around 1300.

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        • #5
          It's not that calories shouldn't matter in an ontological sense, they -matter-, but I think that it's folly to count calories or use a scale. Doesn't it makes sense to devote oneself to becoming optimally healthy and for weight loss to be the consequence? Leptin regulates our appetites, if we can see it well. Things can break down somewhere (many places, usually) along all of the metabolic pathways and that's when we store more weight than we need.

          Carb restriction is a tool, not a cure-all. Good that we're acknowledging this now.
          Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

          Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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          • #6
            Yeah, low to moderate carb is a gateway to health and appetite control. Some people think its the end all for all their weight problems.
            "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

            "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

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            • #7
              On these forums especially. People tend to get really OCD about carbs. Very unhealthy if you ask me.
              "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

              "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                It's not that calories shouldn't matter in an ontological sense, they -matter-, but I think that it's folly to count calories or use a scale.
                +1
                Do you really want to spend the rest of your life hungry and tracking your food? Fix your leptin resistance and you will eat less automatically and your metabolism will speed up.
                Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

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                • #9
                  Well said.
                  "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                  "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    that's my whole point guys, but there seems to be so many people anal about low carbs, and limiting carbs etc etc thinking it is for weight loss when i really think it is for dropped calories. maybe my more prominent question is wouldnt it be healthier to be in and out of ketosis on a random periodic basis?
                    Get on my Level
                    http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=MalPaz;155603
                      Im not saying at ALL that 24/7 keto is good or bad, or that you cant make gains with it. I am just trying to put together the puzzle pieces.
                      Any input??[/QUOTE]

                      It's a mix of both. There were paleolithic peoples who likely maintained very low a very low bmi eating significant carbs - but the work that went into procuring those carbs is very different than the work we put into procuring carbs.

                      For more than a few people, ketosis is key.....but it doesn't mean calories are irrelevant. I wish I had unlimited time...but I dont. It's both.

                      I can eat more cals and with greater nutrient density while paleo/primal low carbing....especially if I'm in ketosis but yes, the benefit is that I'm simply not as hungry and when I am hungry, I still have much much better control than I did eating a carb typical diet.

                      To avoid negative associations with Atkins, I never EVER say I'm low carbing.



                      iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                        that's my whole point guys, but there seems to be so many people anal about low carbs, and limiting carbs etc etc thinking it is for weight loss when i really think it is for dropped calories. maybe my more prominent question is wouldnt it be healthier to be in and out of ketosis on a random periodic basis?
                        yes, I definitely think so. To know that I can go from eating higher carb (still 150g or less) to low carb and that I have trained my body to work efficiently either way is just awesome. I was thinking for a while that I had to keep my carbs low to fix my blood sugar issues and to lose weight but it's not what my body wanted and my blood sugars were staying high despite low carb. Now I eat as many carbs as I feel like when I feel like and stick to low carb when my body seems to need it and my blood sugars and weight loss are back on track and improving. It's all about being in tune with what your body needs and not trying to force it to do something else. That, and trying to count carbs was a complete PITA and waste of time. Sure, it worked initially for weight loss but I probably was eating less calories too (I don't count those either) and I don't think it was continuing to work as my body adjusted. Basically, carbs matter quite a bit but they are not the complete answer in health and weight loss.

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                        • #13
                          Cyclogenic ketonic diet. Bodybuilder's favorite.
                          "I know what my body needs and what it can handle. There's no better way to achieve my goal than what im doing now. If my regimen leads to my death, be it in six days or six months...I will die fullfiled. The outcome is irrelavent so long as i steer towards my fate. If death is to be my prize, i welcome it with open arms."

                          "A pound of meat a day keeps the doctor away"

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                          • #14
                            yeah it works i know i have done it, but health wise i dont know what it is right, and bodybuilders use very unpaleo foods like oats, rice cakes, rice, bread etc etc
                            Get on my Level
                            http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                            • #15
                              I see no reason why yam or sweet potato can't replace those. They're better nutrition and have relatively few poisonous things, especially after cooking.
                              Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                              Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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