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Fat or Carbs: Which Is Worse?: A Response from John McDougall, MD

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  • Fat or Carbs: Which Is Worse?: A Response from John McDougall, MD

    I just read this and was wondering what you guys think:

    "Starches have fueled the engines of human civilizations for at least the past 14,000 years. Carbohydrates (starches), such as rice in Asia, corn in Central America, potatoes in South America, and barley and wheat in Europe, have provided the bulk of the calories for almost all human diets. Only a few small primitive populations, living at the extremes of the environment, such as the Inuit (Eskimos), have been fueled by saturated fats. Just as undeniable, worldwide today populations of people who consume the greatest amounts of carbohydrate are the trimmest and fittest, and also have the lowest incidence of heart disease and diabetes. This truth is confirmed by observing the change that occurs when people from Japan, for example, migrate to the United States or Europe. As they eat less rice (carbohydrate) and more saturated fat (meat and dairy products) they become fatter and sicker."
    Link to full response:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-m..._b_639354.html
    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus

  • #2
    The comments will be funny by this time tomorrow.

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    • #3
      Yeah it's a lot of CW nonsense, broken logic, and rhetorical tricks. Even if we were to grant that carbs made up the bulk of calories for most human civilizations for the past 14,000 years (which they didn't), so what? 14,000 years is nothing in evolutionary terms. Maybe the comments will rip it to shreds. I'm hopeful based on the two comments posted.

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      • #4
        Me too Can I tell you how much CW I'm trying to defend myself against?! I started working out with a trainer and told him how I was eating and he nearly lost it. He said 50% fat would make my body too acidic. It's hard to be new to this and have to try to stick to my guns but I have so much more muscle then I did 2 months ago and it stays! No more chronic cardio for me too (oh and he loved that one too
        In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus

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        • #5
          hmmm I read something today about acidity due to meat but I cant recall what the real issue was. (memory like a sieve) I definitely like not eating copious amounts of carbs but I'm not a carbophobe like some.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Suse View Post
            hmmm I read something today about acidity due to meat but I cant recall what the real issue was. (memory like a sieve) I definitely like not eating copious amounts of carbs but I'm not a carbophobe like some.
            Actually I just read today that sugar may be the main culprit for acidity.
            A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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            • #7
              meat, dairy, and grains all promote acidity. As does sugar, alcohol, coffee and tea. Let's see...what's left? Oh yeah, fruits and veggies!
              I'm a quitter...but I'm back now.

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              • #8
                Fail.
                .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
                ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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                • #9

                  I'm finding the steak and eggs I'm having for dinner, way more compelling than McDougall's arguments.
                  Meh.

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                  • #10
                    grain 14,000 years ago? i dont think so.

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                    • #11
                      I just want people to stop treating nutrients as vehicles of death and arguing over this silly macronutrient ideological war. Context is important and this "japanese eat carbs and have low heart disease" nonsense is both a half truth and an egregious example of affirming the consequent.

                      Here we have a prime example of 75%-85% fats, mostly saturated and monounsaturated, being demonstrated to be extremely healthy an metabolically advantageous. Also I think that a diet of mostly properly prepared grains and legumes is less pernicious than industrial seed oils, and so pitting low fat and higher fat like USA vs Japan is is an inadequate representation of the issue, as we are completely unable to isolate the variables and control for quality of food. Thus, the inadequacy of epidemiology trying to "prove" a positive. You either have examples of relatively fine societies doing the grain and bean thing (fine despite malnourishment, infectious diseases, and stomach cancer, but apparently all that matters is "are you fat" and "heart disease?"). Then you have France with the most fat in Europe being one of the healthiest nations, but I suppose that doesn't count. Did Ancel Keys have illegitimate offspring or is it simply his bastard thought-children running amok?

                      But fats vs carbs is really a false dichotomy and an example of nutritional zealotry and dogma. I love all macronutrients in the proportions right for me. They are my gut-buddies (not you, grains).

                      I'm not particularly impressed with the health and vitality of any population on earth, everyone is pretty crappy at this whole nutrition and holistic health thing. Stop using epidemiology except for a way to determine what doesn't necessarily cause disease, and possibly to form hypothesis'. But that has already been done to death and so it is time to retire the truth by association fallacy.
                      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                      • #12
                        I just want people to stop treating nutrients as vehicles of death and arguing over this silly macronutrient ideological war. Context is important and this "japanese eat carbs and have low heart disease" nonsense is both a half truth and an egregious example of affirming the consequent.
                        My thoughts exactly. I truly believe that most of our health woes would be solved if we stopped focusing on macro- and micro-nutrients and instead turned our attention towards the food itself. It's all about the quality.
                        Lean, Mean, Virile Machine
                        The Modern Man's Guide to Health, Fitness, and Wellness

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                        • #13
                          +1 for STABBY! great response.... i wish people would look at health and not weight....boiled down 99% of the posts in the nutrition forum are anything BUT about health and nutrition, they are about weight gain/loss.....primal is about health and be it you may not land at what you think is the right body, but low and behold you will land in a healthy body.

                          carbs arent bad...it took me 6 years to realize this. i shunned them from ages 18-23, now at 24 i took an interest in health and nutrition and strength and not starving and dieting
                          fat isnt bad either. protein is not bad. all are good in their right place. too much of ANYTHING(aka ppl taking fat shots to perfect their macros they get from reading something) is bad, IMO.

                          finding "that sweet spot" is individual for every single person and i hate seeing people try ______ approach to primal b/c for them it worked....your not them. the only person you can live through is yourself, learn to trust and read your own body

                          sry minii rant over
                          Get on my Level
                          http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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