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Macronutrients and Satiety; Time to Change the Dogma?

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  • Macronutrients and Satiety; Time to Change the Dogma?

    We've all been saying it for years; fats are satiating, carbs aren't. Protein the most so.

    Well, this post over at Free The Animal got me thinking, especially in regards my own experiences: http://freetheanimal.com/2016/02/can...-calories.html

    I have noticed that when I was eating high fat, 60-75% of calories, I was hungry at 1900-2000 cals/day. And that main lining (consuming directly and by themselves) lipids, oils or butter, did little to alleviate hunger. Sometimes gave me loose stools.

    So I reduced fat and upped my protein, and was able to drop 400 cals/day and feel more satisfied! Nowadays, I'm in the 50/50 range of proteins and fats, carbs seldom going over 50 g/day.

    I can't address Richard's viewpoint, as potatoes just kill my blood sugar levels. But I not infrequently eat a half cup of lentils or beans and those meals seem to be a bit more satiating.

    My conclusion is that the mantra "fat is satiating," is BS. And we all know that caloric penalty for eating fat. Once you account for the TEF, it's almost three times as calorically dense as protein. Since volume is one of the things that tells our brain that we are getting enough to eat, there is no way fat can compete with carbs or protein.

    What do you think?

  • #2
    Consistent with my experience.

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    • #3
      I totally agree. For that reason, I no longer seek out fatty cuts of meat or add fats like coconut oil to my meals.

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      • #4
        otb, do potatoes spike your glucose even within a meaty meal? are you really only eating 1500 cals?

        eta: am wondering if the inclusion of potatoes in a meal signals satiety to the brain more quickly and then you still have the slow release of energy from the fat and protein?

        i never understood people glopping butter or oil in their coffee, nor using copious amounts of oil on lean meats. over the last few months i have been having small servings of lentils a few times a week for r/s (plus i really like the tiny pink ones) and those meals do seem to hold me over a really long time. most often they are mixed with bone broth, eggs and either spinach or seaweed.

        Last edited by noodletoy; 02-22-2016, 10:30 AM.
        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

        Ernest Hemingway

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        • #5
          Have you tried cooking then cooling the potatoes before eating them? Doing this will increase resistant starch and may help your BGL.

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          • #6
            I don't read Fta, but satiety is a moving target dependant on needs and most recent meals. Some studies show increased satiety from a meal opposite its last primary macro setup...... Part of the reason that keto cyclical dieting and carb refeeds are successful. Like I said moving target, but as a generalization protein is the best place to start. I prefer it with substantial fat and gelatin (skin on and close as possible to primal cuts).
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 02-22-2016, 11:34 AM.

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            • #7
              neck: so to clarify? a meal hf/lc will feel more sating after a lf/hc meal? hmph.
              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

              Ernest Hemingway

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              • #8
                I'm under the same conclusion too. Though I believe we need fats for hormonal uses, outside of that, I'm not really convinced it's needed for much else. Sure there are populations in the past that have eaten 70% of their overall calories via saturated fats (Tokelau people), but then again, they also ate a lot of fish so their protein levels had to have been high.

                I don't find fat satiating, but I do find protein satiating whether it's a fatty cut or not. I personally prefer fatty cuts of steak as opposed to it being trimmed off. I prefer chicken thighs over breast, but I also don't like fatty fish but prefer the leaner kinds.

                Overall fats do have their place, but I do think protein and carbs play a more prominent roll with protein being king. If we look at this from a body temperature point of view (as some of you know I like to bring this up often), fats due to their slow digestion have a very slow release rate of internal heat. Great if you're healthy and having an off day from training, bad if you're on a training day or unhealthy with your temperature running cooler.

                I've said it before, there is a time and place for each macro-nutrient (or has neckhammer said, it's a moving target).

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                • #9
                  The only potato experience was two months ago. I ate 13 ounces, IIRC, and my blood sugar was well over 200 in an hour. And it took several more to come back down. So, no, I won't be experimenting with concurrent meat or fat. I'm def pre-diabetic.

                  Yes, my average daily caloric intake runs 1500-1700 per day. I'm 70 yo male, 6'2", currently 249 pounds. Even on days that I eat more than I would like, I'm always in negative calories. All the energy I need, body is warm, etc.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                    neck: so to clarify? a meal hf/lc will feel more sating after a lf/hc meal? hmph.
                    you got it.

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                    • #11
                      To me, a combination of protein and fat is most satiating. Carbs, no matter the type, don't satiate me. I can eat an unhealthy number of slices of bread, or many scoops of mashed potatoes, or lentils or oatmeal or mixed greens without being satiated. I may get stuffed, but it's a hollow stuffed where I feel full yet unfulfilled. Must eat more despite the weight. Even with protein.

                      If I'm filled by a fatty steak though, it's a satisfying full that lasts a while. Same with most other combinations of protein and fat. Or even just fat; some coconut oil in a tea satisfies me better than a whole potato.

                      But hey. Everyone is different.

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                      • #12
                        What dogma are you suggesting we change, OTB? Protein is the most satiating. No question.

                        Depending on one's leptin status, fats provide some satiation but none of our leptin statuses are ideal, I'd say. Fats should be consumed for prolonged energy and a host of structural and hormonal reasons, but I'd never suggest it for satiation. But, carbs sure ain't satiating. For long.
                        Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                        Old Paths ... New Journeys

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by John Caton View Post
                          What dogma are you suggesting we change, OTB? Protein is the most satiating. No question.

                          Depending on one's leptin status, fats provide some satiation but none of our leptin statuses are ideal, I'd say. Fats should be consumed for prolonged energy and a host of structural and hormonal reasons, but I'd never suggest it for satiation. But, carbs sure ain't satiating. For long.
                          It's my recollection that "fat is highly satiating" is all over the paleo/primal/health forums. It's been years, but I think Mark says that, too. No one argues that protein is the king for satiety. Abyss aside, it's looking like maybe carbs, in regards satiety, are not the #3 as we've been lead to believe. Probably lots of differences within, like beans vs. white flour & sugar crap?

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                          • #14
                            the pb and this website originated quite some time ago. mark has softened his stance on "good starchy" carbs and mostly talks about fat connected to protein vs. bullshit like bullet-proof coffee.
                            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                            Ernest Hemingway

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I do find fat to be satiating and eat tons of it. It's cheap, it's filling, it's great fuel. It's about 30% of my diet, with protein at a stable 40-50% or so.

                              You don't need to look further than an animal carcass to realize that fat shouldn't be our main source of calories. A healthy animal carcass will contain a healthy amount of fat, both underskin, marble, brains, organ fat and bone marrow... but the bulk of its nutrients are proteins, unless we're talking about seals or something... not rocket science.

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