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  • LDL Cholesterol

    I need some advice here. I had a massive heart attack 3 years ago; right coronary 100% blocked and "widow maker" 95% blocked. 3 stents. Have been eating primal for 6 months now and my LDL has went up! I didn't expect that. Also my glucose is a bit high. What to do?


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  • #2
    My understanding is that heart disease is basically a symptom of low thyroid hormone. The thyroid affects cholesterol levels, so this explains the correlation between heart disease and a "bad" lipid panel.

    Magnesium and sodium both promote thyroid hormone. Sodium can raise blood pressure, which is interpreted by some as a bad sign, but this can be counteracted by enough potassium.

    Eating carbohydrates promotes thyroid hormone, while unsaturated fat inhibits it (I am aware this is a controversial statement on this forum). Also, endotoxin from the gut is a major source of stress, so maintaining a favorable gut microbiota is probably a good idea.
    My opinions and some justification

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    • #3
      I'd listen to Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn who has successfully reversed heart disease with a plant-based diet.

      ---->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pLRdawBw0 -- is a very thorough discussion on the subject. (you're going to need some popcorn)

      ---->FAQ | Dr. Esselstyn's Prevent & Reverse Heart Disease Program

      According to this info, it appears a diet high in saturated fat eg. primal, is the exact opposite of what you should be doing.
      *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
      *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
      *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

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      • #4
        Originally posted by PriMark View Post
        my LDL has went up! I didn't expect that. Also my glucose is a bit high. What to do?
        Some tests do not actually measure LDL but estimate it from the other fractions, and this estimate can be too high if triglycerides decrease (common on PB). Request the most detailed report possible.

        Is the glucose trending up or down?
        37//6'3"/185

        My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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        • #5
          Glucose is a little high. 108 after fasting. Triglycerides or good.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by KimLean125byMar15 View Post
            I'd listen to Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn who has successfully reversed heart disease with a plant-based diet.

            ---->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pLRdawBw0 -- is a very thorough discussion on the subject. (you're going to need some popcorn)

            ---->FAQ | Dr. Esselstyn's Prevent & Reverse Heart Disease Program

            According to this info, it appears a diet high in saturated fat eg. primal, is the exact opposite of what you should be doing.
            Esselstyn's conclusions are wrong however, and he attributes the improvements to the wrong factors. His study is highly flawed, and the number one conclusion is totally discredited, in that there is actually no correlation at all between CVD and consumption of saturated fat. No study has ever shown one. Including the grandaddy fraud of them all, Keys' 7 Countries study.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PriMark View Post
              I need some advice here. I had a massive heart attack 3 years ago; right coronary 100% blocked and "widow maker" 95% blocked. 3 stents. Have been eating primal for 6 months now and my LDL has went up! I didn't expect that. Also my glucose is a bit high. What to do?
              You should find a paleo-friendly medical professional to guide you. You had a heart attack so your margin for personal experimentation is small. You may want to get a direct measure of your current artery plaque, such as a coronary calcium scan.

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              • #8
                Have you had an a1c test performed for the elevated glucose?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NewOldGuy View Post
                  Esselstyn's conclusions are wrong however, and he attributes the improvements to the wrong factors. His study is highly flawed, and the number one conclusion is totally discredited, in that there is actually no correlation at all between CVD and consumption of saturated fat. No study has ever shown one. Including the grandaddy fraud of them all, Keys' 7 Countries study.
                  Yup. Skip the vegan nonsense.

                  Check on your ratios. Much more appropriate than only looking at Ldl.

                  Prevent a Heart Attack: Know Your Ratio?

                  Trig/HDL is the most important to know and primal generally improves this greatly!
                  Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-02-2015, 10:03 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NewOldGuy View Post
                    Esselstyn's conclusions are wrong however, and he attributes the improvements to the wrong factors. His study is highly flawed, and the number one conclusion is totally discredited, in that there is actually no correlation at all between CVD and consumption of saturated fat. No study has ever shown one. Including the grandaddy fraud of them all, Keys' 7 Countries study.
                    Here's another 'clueless' cardiologist - Dr. Kim Williams, President of American College of Cardiology - recommending a plant-based diet for his heart patients and also used it himself to reduce his cholesterol:

                    ----->CardioBuzz: Vegan Diet, Healthy Heart?

                    And then there's also another one: Dr. Neal Barnard who uses a plant based diet to reverse diabetes in his patients.

                    The OP's cholesterol is going up on primal and his glucose (I'm guessing fasting glucose) is going up, indicating insulin resistance. We know this is NOT unexpected on primal (even Mark discussed it recently). Instead of listening to random folks on the internet who want to justify bad lab results, why not listen to those Drs who show that you can reduce your risk of further heart attacks by just ditching the animal products and oils?

                    Try it for several months, re-check your labs or scans and see what happens. OR cross fingers and keep doing the same thing and hope for the best. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
                    Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 08-02-2015, 11:05 AM.
                    *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                    *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                    *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

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                    • #11
                      Nobody said they didn't show some positive results. But they mostly misidentified the causes.

                      You should start by researching the idea that total cholesterol count, or dietary cholesterol consumption, have anything whatsoever to do with causing cardiovascular disease. Modern science says they don't. Then learn which dietary factors actually do cause arterial disease. Polyunsaturated fats and refined carbs (all from plants) are at the top of that list. Then once you have caught up on the research you can evalute those studies in the proper context.
                      Last edited by NewOldGuy; 08-02-2015, 11:31 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KimLean125byMar15 View Post

                        Instead of listening to random folks on the internet who want to justify bad lab results, why not listen to those Drs who show that you can reduce your risk of further heart attacks ...snip
                        Well sure. But those docs are "lower cholesterol at all cost" types. This increases mortality due to cancer and infection while also increasing incidence of mental disorders such as depression and suicide (look it up in psychology today if you don't believe it). Not a great answer for the patient...but of you are a cardiologist you can point and say.."did my job! Least they didn't die of a heart attack!" Meh...not even. Lol.

                        If you want to follow a cardiologists program who has a clue I would recommend Dr. Davis' program here...he of course recommends a paleo/primal diet:

                        Track Your Plaque Heart Disease Prevention and Reversal Online

                        Good facts on this page in regard to cholesterol and diet since you like a clinical perspective

                        Frequently Asked Questions about Nutriton

                        And more truth about cholesterol

                        http://jeffreydachmd.com/heart-matte...lesterol-myth/
                        Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-02-2015, 12:05 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KimLean125byMar15 View Post
                          Instead of listening to random folks on the internet who want to justify bad lab results
                          You're on the wrong forum if you think there are many people like that here. I had a heart attack six years ago, had angioplasty and stents, and today I have no signs of CVD and I take no medications. I'm actually in the best health of my adult life at 54. From a paleo diet and exercise.

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                          • #14
                            My HDL and triglycerides are very good. Thank you all for all of the opinions and advice....and please keep it coming!


                            Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum

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                            • #15
                              LDL Cholesterol

                              So what are your numbers for HDL, LDL and triglycerides? As discussed above, modern studies and evidence point away from cholesterol levels as being related to CVD at all. Many doctors, including my own, are whistling a different tune now as evidence is being published all the time exonerating saturated fats and cholesterol. Plant based diets can lower cholesterol but why lower a number that has been proven to have nothing to do with the disease you're trying to treat or prevent? The glucose can be an issue though. You really need an A1C test to determine if blood glucose is an issue.

                              Post your numbers if you feel like it. Divide your Triglycerides by your HDL number. If the answer is lower than 2 that's great! In this case the lower it is the better.

                              CVD is much more related to systemic inflammation caused by high intake of omega 6 polyunsaturated fats and refined carbohydrates. If you're eating primally those things should be fixed for you.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum
                              Last edited by pkjody; 08-02-2015, 05:30 PM.

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