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    To prevent gluconeogenesis while remaining in ketosis?
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  • #2
    there's some good information in this blog post and in the responses to some questions, as well as in the linked one on ketosis and alcohol. Don't know if it will have the answer you're looking for, but I found it informative. Need to re-read and take notes.

    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/k...m-and-ketosis/

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    • #3
      I've read that earlier today...

      "Well, when the ketosis process is humming along nicely and the brain and other tissues have converted to ketones for fuel, the requirement for glucose drops to about 120-130 gm per day. If you keep your carbs below that at, say, 60 grams per day, you’re liver will have to produce at least 60-70 grams of glucose to make up the deficit, so you will generate ketones that entire time."

      So your body absolutely needs 120 grams of glucose per day? Does that mean that I can eat 120 grams of protein AND remain in ketosis? Doesn't sound possible. =\ I wish I had ketostix.
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      • #4
        I read elsewhere in one of Eades' posts that ketostix aren't always accurate - some individuals 'prefer' to excrete ketobodies through the breath, so you may actually be in ketosis though the stick isn't purple.

        I can always tell if I'm in ketosis by the body odour, but I'm hypersensitive to chemicals and perfumes.

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        • #5
          I can tell my the sweet taste in my mouth.

          So I can be in ketosis at 120 grams of carbs a day?
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          • #6
            I think the needs are 120g out of ketosis and depending on the degree to which carbs are restricted there will be less carbs and more ketones. Usually ketosis starts around 100g and is a sliding scale depending on carb restriction. It can get down to about 40g and you can probably eat 20-30ish grams and keep the ketones high enough for it to be 40g. The rest can probably be made from glycerol sparing amino acids. I'm not sure about heavy lifting and spirining; that might cause additional gluconeogenesis. I can't imagine a whole lot since we primals like to get it done quickly.
            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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            • #7
              Can your body use glycogen stores in order to meet it's glucose requirements? If I have liver/muscle glycogen, then gluconeogenesis won't happen, right?
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              • #8
                yus however glycogen depletion is the signal for ketosis so I wouldn't fill up too heavily. That being said it takes more than just a carb blast one time every couple days to take someone out of ketosis.
                Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                  yus however glycogen depletion is the signal for ketosis so I wouldn't fill up too heavily. That being said it takes more than just a carb blast one time every couple days to take someone out of ketosis.
                  So I cannot be in ketosis with full glycogen?

                  I did a carb up today (500 g), will I be in ketosis tomorrow?

                  Sorry for all the questions hahaha.
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                  • #10
                    Heh not too sure about that. If you do you'll be back in quickly enough if you don't eat carbs.
                    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                    • #11
                      http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/faq...tisketosis.htm

                      Is this right?

                      Autumn

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                      • #12
                        I don't think humans use glycogen for remaining out of ketosis.
                        The only part of our body that needs glucose is the brain. The needs of the brain are variable. Depending on the amount of glucose actually available.
                        Muscles require it for generating energy at a faster rate than oxygen can be delivered.
                        Some glucose is consumed during food digestion, because insulin goes up, which forces tissues to use glucose.
                        The above means that the requirement will depend on a person.

                        I have read that when the human body (except for the brain) is completely relying on fat for fuel the brains requirement is about 40gms per day.
                        Muscular requirement depends on the type and amount of physical effort.
                        Some additional required for food.

                        I would think that 80gms would be sufficient to avoid gluconeogenesis for a sedentary person.
                        I am not sure how to calculate the extra for a person doing some amount of physical exertion.

                        Not doing gluconeogenesis is not the same as not being in Ketosis. Ketosis is the normal state of the body. It should be reached for even high carb eating people, with normal insulin sensitivity (by normal I don't mean SAD normal).

                        The Ketostix show ketone bodies that are being excreted by the body. Those are wasted energy. This is not a normal state. This just means that you are eating too much fat and the body does not know where to store the extra fat. Rest assured when your body learns how to store the fat, you will start to gain ;-).

                        I think Ketostix only shows one thing and that is that your body is not adapted to storing fat, without insulin. This happens over time, when changing from a high carb to low carb diet.

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