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  • Healthiest vegan diet

    I'm starting to get really tired of eggs, and kinda want to experiment some. Thinking of trying a month of whole foods vegan for a change of pace and to see what happens. Been doing lots of gelatin for some months and I'm really not sure it's done anything. People here said meat would help with all sorts of issues I've been having, but I don't feel any differently with the gelatin so who knows. Hair loss didn't improve until I started using some crazy expensive shampoo with saw palmetto and other good things. Only difference I've noticed with gelatin is constipation.

    Mostly raw vegan is the way I'd go, likely with some soups and things along the way. Is protein really that much of a concern? The difference between getting like 40g and 100g hasn't been obvious or noticeable. Would beans be my best bet for protein? Along with some nuts, seeds and idk what else.

    Advice on what foods to make sure I get enough of would be helpful. Planning on lots of berries and veggies.

    Was like a junk food vegan for quite a while. Will be neat to see what health food vegan is like


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  • #2
    I think potatoes are one of the best vegan protein sources, though they would not fit on a raw diet.
    My opinions and some justification

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Elliot View Post
      I think potatoes are one of the best vegan protein sources, though they would not fit on a raw diet.
      Ohh potatoes. Yes

      Not trying to restrict myself to raw or anything that just seems easiest for like foods to eat at work and stuff.


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      • #4
        Can't really comment on a good vegan diet, but you'll have to supplement your B12.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pamela M View Post
          Can't really comment on a good vegan diet, but you'll have to supplement your B12.
          Do you have site that would be a good go to for what vegans would need to supp?

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          • #6
            Gelatin is excellent for several reasons but it will not cut it as the only source of animal protein. Why not try to eat some animal protein with cooked starches such as potatoes, rice as your main meal of the day and eat raw vegan for the rest of the day? Some beef, fish, fowl etc. for dinner together with the starches – make variations – don’t eat the same every day. Then raw fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds for the rest of the day…
            Last edited by Gorbag; 06-11-2015, 09:41 AM.
            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

            - Schopenhauer

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            • #7
              Nellodee, do you have physical or ethical issues with whey protein? If not, protein shakes might be the easiest way for you to not go too low on protein without having to eat large quantities of beans. I know it's not a whole food, but most days it's the only way I can get my protein goals without overeating. And I'm like the opposite of a vegetarian - yesterday, for e.g., all I ate was chicken and pork rinds. I did make a spicy tomato based sauce for the chicken, so the couple of tablespoons of tomato paste was the only plant product that I ate.

              The US govt recommends 46 gms of protein/day for women aged 14 and older. Some folks think that's way too low, but it's probably subsistence.
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by steven.kelly View Post
                Do you have site that would be a good go to for what vegans would need to supp?

                Sent from my GT-I9300T using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                Here you go: Vegan Health Home Page
                Not that I'm trolling vegan websites, but I was just having this discussion with a vegetarian friend.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  Gelatin is excellent for several reasons but it will not cut it as the only source of animal protein. Why not try to eat some animal protein with cooked starches such as potatoes, rice as your main meal of the day and eat raw vegan for the rest of the day? Some beef, fish, fowl etc. for dinner together with the starches – make variations – don’t eat the same every day. Then raw fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds for the rest of the day…
                  What good would more animal protein do? Adding in gelatin didn't help anything in any obvious ways. I'm finding it kinda hard to believe that animal proteins are so much better than quality eggs and dairy.

                  Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  Nellodee, do you have physical or ethical issues with whey protein? If not, protein shakes might be the easiest way for you to not go too low on protein without having to eat large quantities of beans. I know it's not a whole food, but most days it's the only way I can get my protein goals without overeating. And I'm like the opposite of a vegetarian - yesterday, for e.g., all I ate was chicken and pork rinds. I did make a spicy tomato based sauce for the chicken, so the couple of tablespoons of tomato paste was the only plant product that I ate.

                  The US govt recommends 46 gms of protein/day for women aged 14 and older. Some folks think that's way too low, but it's probably subsistence.
                  I'm lactose intolerant but have been handling butter and cheese and stuff pretty well. No huge ethical reasons to say no. But I've got all this gelatin still and plan to finish it, so if I start to feel like I need more protein that would be the way to go probably. Kinda want to do this 100% vegan though, to see if the animal products really make that big of a difference.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                    What good would more animal protein do? Adding in gelatin didn't help anything in any obvious ways. I'm finding it kinda hard to believe that animal proteins are so much better than quality eggs and dairy.
                    Animal protein from various sources will make sure that you get essencial amino acids and you are right eggs and dairy are very good and complete sources of protein but some variation will probably do you good - a little beef or organ meat will provide b-12 and protect against anemia etc. And if I were you I would still eat some gelatin also...
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                      What good would more animal protein do? Adding in gelatin didn't help anything in any obvious ways. I'm finding it kinda hard to believe that animal proteins are so much better than quality eggs and dairy.



                      I'm lactose intolerant but have been handling butter and cheese and stuff pretty well. No huge ethical reasons to say no. But I've got all this gelatin still and plan to finish it, so if I start to feel like I need more protein that would be the way to go probably. Kinda want to do this 100% vegan though, to see if the animal products really make that big of a difference.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum
                      If you feel like doing the 100% vegan thing, you should do it then. I think you've probably been around long enough and witnessed enough carb/sugar/glucagon/insulin/leptin wars to be aware that nutrition science is wishy washy at best and that at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is your n=1.

                      On that note, I doubt there's anything that anyone can say that would convince you that meat might be superior to quality eggs and dairy. Nobody's going to fund a study of egg-eaters vs meat-eaters, so all you're going to get is speculation, which hardly has the force of evidence. If you really care to find out whether meat is better or not, you're going to have to eat it.

                      Assuming the vegan thing doesn't work out for you, of course. If it does, that's fine too.

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                      • #12
                        Healthiest vegan diet

                        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        Animal protein from various sources will make sure that you get essencial amino acids and you are right eggs and dairy are very good and complete sources of protein but some variation will probably do you good - a little beef or organ meat will provide b-12 and protect against anemia etc. And if I were you I would still eat some gelatin also...
                        What good would it do me? Can you be specific?

                        TQP once explained this stuff to me, and it really seemed to boil down to higher bioavailability of nutrients. Which is important for sure, but I'm not sure how important. Would like to experience that difference for myself, if it's even possible.


                        'Cause, I mean. Complete proteins and B12 can definitely be had in a vegetarian diet.
                        Last edited by Nellodee; 06-11-2015, 11:00 AM.
                        Music of the day/week/month/whatever:

                        K.A.A.N. - L.T.N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWocmse1Ef4

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                          Mostly raw vegan is the way I'd go, likely with some soups and things along the way. Is protein really that much of a concern? The difference between getting like 40g and 100g hasn't been obvious or noticeable. Would beans be my best bet for protein? Along with some nuts, seeds and idk what else.
                          I think protein's what people worry about. But I doubt that's the biggest problem.

                          AFAIK, the biggest (not the only) problem with that diet would be DHA. It's a complex molecule and the only solution that's emerged out of evolution in 600 million years to do what it does. Basically, it can convert light energy to electrical energy … and the other way around, too.

                          One of the most important papers relevant to Ancestral Health to have been published:

                          A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution.

                          A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution. - PubMed - NCBI

                          We all know what "irreplaceable" means.

                          The brain's the point. Again: the brain.

                          We've developed a massive one. It took DHA to develop it; it takes it to keep it running properly.

                          The only real debate in hominid/human evolution is "Where did the DHA come from?" The answer is probably seafood (c.f. Pinnacle Point in RSA) but it could - just about - be from the brains of land animals. This explains it:



                          There's a basket of other nutrients that would favour brain-expansion, but I won't go into all that here. Suffice to say, seafood, particularly shellfish, are the best source of these nutrients, offal from land animals the next best.

                          It's not my business to tell you what to do. But my hands aren't clean if I turn my back and don't tell you what I understand to be true.

                          If you must do it, I'd get hold of Prof. Cordains's latest book:

                          The Paleo Answer: 7 Days to Lose Weight, Feel Great, Stay Young: Loren Cordain: 9781118404157: Amazon.com: Books

                          There's a whole chapter in there on the problems with vegetarian and vegan diets. Read that and try to get around the problems by testing and supplementation.

                          You could get some DHA - probably not enough - by eating eggs from hens that have been able to eat insects - and that have, perhaps, been given flax seeds. (Chickens can convert ALA to DHA fairly efficiently, which we cannot.) But you just said that you wouldn't even eat eggs …

                          But shellfish are a far better source. They're fairly primitive life-forms and really won't feel much, if that's a worry for you - and certainly won't miss life, which they won't even be aware of enjoying in a self-conscious way.

                          But do what you're happy with - though the above is my advice.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                            What good would it do me? Can you be specific?
                            Retain more lean bodymass when you grows older, higher metabolic rate, avoid the anemic look of certain vegans etc...
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

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                            • #15
                              Not going to bother to convince you to add more animal products to your diet (too much anyway* ).

                              If I were to go vegan, this a food list of what I would eat.

                              -PROTEIN. I personally like relatively unprocessed hemp protein powder. It should just be milled hemp; Potatoes, legumes. Eat rice & beans together to get a "complete" protein pairing. Tempeh might be worthwhile to look into for occasional consumption.
                              -FRUITS. All kinds... medjool dates, bananas, mangoes, grapes, melons, citrus, figs, apples, pears, etc. Raw vegans believe that fruits are pretty much the only part of the earth that mother nature actually intends us to eat it. I would base a large portion of my diet on fruits and casually practice food combining. Fruits should be eaten on their own or with green veggies, preferably earlier in the day since they do best on an empty stomach.
                              -STARCH. Rice, gluten-free oats, yams, sweet potatoes, potatoes, squash, pumpkin, beets, taro, etc. I would keep to mostly tubers since they offer a wider range of nutrition than the grain alternatives.
                              -FATS. I would keep the fats saturated/unprocessed and avoid nuts for the most part. Coconut milk, coconut flakes, maybe a bit of avocado/etc. if you feel like it. Nuts are rarely ever raw anyway (if you're trying to go the raw vegan route), even the "raw" nuts on sale are usually cooked. i'm not huge on the refined/overt fats when eating high on carbs... refined fats + carbs is a recipe for weight gain. Take note that the thinnest vegans are those who are HCLF, eating 2500-4000 calories of mostly fruits or whole food starches a day, and avoiding large amounts of nuts.
                              -B12. I would eat a significant amount of nutritional yeast.
                              -PROBIOTICS. I would eat a significant amount of fermented veggies: sauekraut, kimchi, beet kraut, carrot kraut, etc. You get the idea.


                              ---
                              {*I should say that I agree with everyone else that you're not reaping the benefits of eating gelatin because you're not ALSO eating more animal-sourced proteins in general, and it's probably also why you feel shitty health-wise at times.

                              I disagree on the DHA being essential though. }
                              Last edited by TQP; 06-11-2015, 11:15 AM.
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