Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Understanding grains

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Understanding grains

    I understand the basic concept about grains (what they are) but I have been wondering about Ezekiel bread. It says it's made from "sprouted grains". Are wheat and spelt sprouts still grains?

  • #2
    It will be interesting to hear what others have to say on this....in my book the sprouted grains become veggies, yet I haven't noticed anyone talking about Ezekiel bread here.
    I don't eat it, because I am not really a fan.

    Comment


    • #3
      These sorts of labels like "grains" and "veggies" aren't helpful in attaining our goals. They're vague and inaccurate. Take quinoa, it is a seed, but it acts like a grain. You sprout a grain and it becomes a little plant, but it still has the constituents of grains. They're still not healthy, they still have a fair bit of phytotoxin action and still have poor bioavailability compared with meat and veggie veggies. We do have an 80/20 rule and if someone absolutely has to have some bread here or there, it would be a good option, but this isn't the kind of food we want to be building healthy bodies out of.
      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

      Comment


      • #4
        There isn't an animal on this earth that eats grains. Except Humans. That tells me something.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by invino77 View Post
          There isn't an animal on this earth that eats grains. Except Humans. That tells me something.
          Really?
          ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><(( ((º>
          ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><(( ((º>

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by invino77 View Post
            There isn't an animal on this earth that eats grains. Except Humans. That tells me something.
            Quoting this for posterity

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd better tell my cattle and sheep to spit out all the tops of the grass they eat....

              Back to OP.
              Hmm.
              I'd avoid it because your sprout is still mainly a grain, if you get me. Presumably they grind up the little husk and all?
              However, at what point does a sprout become a veg - I'm thinking beansprouts for example? Start off as mung beans, if you eat them when they're a few inches tall, has the chemical protection been downgraded?

              Comment


              • #8
                Sprouted and fermented grains are perfectly safe, provided that you have a decently healthy metabolism.

                If you've been living on chocodiles and cheetos for 40 years straight, stay away.
                “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi, I'm new here and just posted an intro (linking to this thread).
                  I've been studying all this primal stuff with great interest and trying to take it all in. However the way I learn best is to question everything, and then usually question every answer. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I am just trying to understand; please bear with me.

                  A few things around the blog and forum have confused me. In this particular thread I see the grain issue and mention of all grains being the same or a carb is a carb etc. It seems sprouted grains are being shot down. I have seen similar points made by Mark throughout his blog. But at the same time I come across posts like this
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/sisso...t-loaf-around/
                  A few paragraphs down Mark says :
                  "A reader asked what kinds of carbs I eat. For breakfast, I sometimes eat a slice of sprouted-grain toast with organic nut spread (like almond butter). A few times a week, I enjoy brown rice or whole-grain pasta with my dinner vegetable plate. I favor squashes and legumes over grains. But on the whole, I stick to vegetables and protein – I just don’t really “do” carbs."

                  A few times a week brown rice? Sprouted grain bread? Legumes?
                  Not so evil I guess.

                  Or here:
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/are-t...ny-good-carbs/
                  "I think an occasional slice of sprouted-grain bread is fine, particularly if you’re an avid exerciser (and I hope you are). "

                  Also you will note that although I have seen in many areas of the blog that legumes are bad, but here he places them in the "ok" category and in another post has a pyramid (can't find it at the moment that has legumes in the middle.

                  I have also seen many variations on the theme on the forums. It seems that this is all a template and that there are variations? I'm just trying to get a better understanding and inconsistencies tend to throw me off and send me back to square one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wanderer,
                    You are blowing me away. I'm new and learning too, so I'll be waiting for all the responses that are sure to follow. Good questions - thanks.
                    My journal

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looks like the first one must be a very old blogpost--probably pre-PB. I'd ask Mark directly about this question and those posts. The entire first post totally goes against the PB laws. I'm betting it's from his days switching over from a higher carb, chronic cardio lifestyle to creating and following the PB.

                      I've come to the PB after eating a traditional foods diet, including sprouted/fermented gluten free grains, which I made myself at home. I've still noticed a big difference in how good I feel and look since dropping them. This means more to me than anything else.
                      My Before/After Pics
                      Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                      "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That sprouted grain bread post is from 2006.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks. You may be right, maybe it's a very old post. I didn't know there was a "pre" PB
                          So there have been changes, it seems. Well, now I have to question the answer!!

                          I believe change is good and I change all the time....I just keep moving (always forward, I hope). I would imagine that at the time of that post he was positive he was on the right path and was promoting his way of eating. Apparently this changed and he now has new and revised views. What is to say that five years down the line these new ways won't become old and outdated and a new way of eating falls into play? Maybe adding "some" whole grains back ? You never know, it seems. Curiouser and curiouser! We can't seem to ever fully escape the "this is no good....wait, that was last week, this week it is good" dilemma. We can only do the best we can I suppose. I have always tried to limit refined grains and over the years cut them out completely. These days even my whole grain consumption is less but I've never had a weight problem, so for me it was just health (a byproduct of my training/workouts). I still eats "some" sprouted grain bread and some quinoa.
                          But like I said, I am always moving and looking to move forward. I also said I am looking to advance my knowledge of all this. So the process continues. Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i love the web site and the book and think mark is great and brilliant, but there were some things i remember finding a little confusing and contradictory, wanderer. but, i would venture to say that it's impossible to lay out a plan that is purely black and white with no grey in all areas with no room for change or exceptions. and after all, every person is different and is effected differently by their exercise and diet.
                            i didn't know there was a pre pb on the web site either.
                            i will maintain the truth
                            i knew naturally as a child
                            i won't forfeit my creativity
                            to a world that's all laid out for me
                            i'll look at everything around me
                            and i will vow to bear in mind
                            that all of this was just someone's idea
                            it could just as well be mine - ani difranco

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I know Mark has gotten info from WAPF (and recommends their site for info), which is very pro sprouted/fermented grains. (They have LOTS of good info on traditional diets, including promoting grass fed meats, organ meats, fermented foods, and lots of good things that don't have the negative impact grains do, which is why I think Mark finds them so valuable, and many others agree.) I also think some folks get awesome results eating traditional foods types of diets, and if this is you, maybe you don't need the PB. In my own experience though, going mostly primal/paleo and totally grain free has felt better than I ever felt eating just 'traditional foods' (al la WAPF), so I'm sticking with this! (I also incorperate ferments, organ meats on occasion, and bone broths--traditional food preparation methods definitely influence my way of eating, and I think work wonderfully in accordance with a primal diet.)

                              What is to say that five years down the line these new ways won't become old and outdated and a new way of eating falls into play? Maybe adding "some" whole grains back ? You never know, it seems. Curiouser and curiouser! We can't seem to ever fully escape the "this is no good....wait, that was last week, this week it is good" dilemma.
                              I think this goes deeper than what works in the moment for a person or group of people. Primal/paleo eating is looking at what humans have evolved to eat--what our OPTIMAL diet is. Grains were just not part of that picture (paleolithic diets), according to the majority of research that is out there. They are a neolithic food, and with them came many negatives including disease.

                              I just think it's not as simple as saying 'someone (ie Mark) thinks they are good or bad right now, but will change their views later', you know? When you know better you do better, and I think that is the case w/ Mark and his stance on grains. Also, *if* you *must* eat grains as part of your 20%, sprouted or fermented are absolutely a superior choice. But they are not going to give you the optimal nutrition available in the form of meat and veggies, and their toxins, however minimized, are still there...

                              The choice is up to each of us what we want to include in our diets. But PB is absolutely not pro-grain, no matter how they are prepared. And I really don't think that's a fad--I'd look into paleo diets if you're interested in more of the why's behind the no-grain stance. (And I'm really not a purist, but avoiding grains is truly the base of the PB.)

                              I agree it can be confusing that Mark might say "if you must dip your veggies in hummus at a party once in a while, it's not going to kill you." But his book has very clear sections describing foods that are really primal/paleo, and foods that should be eaten only in moderation (or avoided completely if you want to be more strict), and foods that should be totally avoided (which includes basically all grains). His 80/20 rule, which may seem wishy-washy to some, makes the PB more accessible and user friendly IMO, and I think is a reason so many folks are here and keep coming back! Each of our primal diets are our own, and how deeply we want to 80/20 it is up to us. I also think following your own body is key--I KNOW I feel better w/ no grains--no matter how they are prepared, so grains are not in my 20%. (But dark chocolate certainly is, among other things! ) Only you can decide what works for *you*. (Although I think cutting the food in question totally out for around a month can be helpful to see how it really effects you...)

                              But like I said, I am always moving and looking to move forward. I also said I am looking to advance my knowledge of all this. So the process continues.
                              ITA--and I'm learning more every day!
                              My Before/After Pics
                              Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                              "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X