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COY Fitness: a Trinity

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  • That's amazing Ci - whoop!
    Om, I love the jog-walk (aka interval running). For some reason it makes me get the boost from exercise I never got before.

    Also, Ci - can you explain to me why you do one push day and one pull day? Is there a reason for separating it out?

    Aaand - waiting to hear about everyone's recovery techniques
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
      Om, I love the jog-walk (aka interval running). For some reason it makes me get the boost from exercise I never got before.
      And it's not as hard on my lungs as straight jogging or sprinting is.
      Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ombat View Post
        And it's not as hard on my lungs as straight jogging or sprinting is.
        You know, I'm starting to wonder if that's part of my problem. When I exercise I have difficulty breathing, and I start to yawn. Eating wheat gives me a pain in my lungs / chest. My dad has asthma, and for the first time test I started to wonder if I might have some kind of issue as well...
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • No matter what it is, if you're having trouble breathing that is (most likely) not a great sign. Your lungs might get stronger but if they don't, you could always try an inhaler. They work well.

          I have trouble breathing, start coughing, yawning a lot, and experience a strange pain almost in the back of my head? I've never really been able to explain this or have heard it been explained. And I will have a headache for the remainder of the day, I suppose from lack of oxygen.
          Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ombat View Post
            I've been trying to figure out what I can do even when I feel terrible, but most of the time the thought of getting off my couch once I'm home for the day is unbearable. Sometimes I'll pick up a 30 lb kettlebell and do a few squats, or 2 sets of push ups. I've done a ton of walking in the past few weeks (out of necessity, really) and I'm coming to accept that doing something is better than doing nothing at all. So even if my energy takes a nose dive for another 3 weeks, I should feel good about at least getting myself moving today... right? Just say yes even if you don't agree.
            Yes.

            Have you tried doing yoga videos when you don't have enough energy to do anything strenuous? You can find ones that are pretty mellow and relaxing.

            Originally posted by CiKi90
            I totally used to be the same way, too. I would eat all my vitamins for breakfast and then not be hungry for any food, lmao. But, I have severely cut back, slowly, by cutting out different things to see if they do anything or not. I tried cutting out the BCAAs, but it slowed down my muscle recovery time by a significant amount, so I still take them! However, I no longer take a multivitamin and like a bajillion digestive aids that I used to choke down.
            I actually didn't notice much of a difference when I stopped the BCAAs. How much do you take?

            Originally posted by CiKi90
            All of the gym buddies I've had in the past were severely unmotivated and would always be like, "Again?! We just went yesterday?!" And then, while we were at the gym, "You can do a few more sets, I'll just .... spot you." Or they'd eventually just stop answering their phones. Flaky bitches! lol.
            At least you can get some of them to go to the gym with you in the first place. That's more than what I've been able to do.

            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            So, fitness question: what are your recovery methods after training? Do you stretch / drink fluids, if yes, what kinds / how much?
            I think Gorbag is right. I've read that only elite athletes ever actually overtrain. What most people experience is overreaching, which is a less serious form of overtraining. And a lot of times overreaching is caused by improper recovery. However, it is possible to experience overreaching when you ramp up your workout volume/intensity really quickly (faster than your body can adapt). The hallmark sign of overreaching for me, other than feeling like I've been run over by a truck, is regression in performance. I've been running for several years so I'm pretty attuned to my running performance. I know there are good days and bad days, and what the range is for normal fluctuations of good vs. bad performance. When my performance is suddenly worse than normal for no reason (i.e., I'm not coming back from an extended break due to illness or injury), I know that I'm overreaching. This happened when I first started crossfit and was training for a 10-mile race. My runs went to hell, and I don't think any amount of recovery (other than recovering by doing fewer workouts) would have helped. My body just needed to adjust to the extra workload and the high intensity madness that is crossfit.

            As for recovery, I think the absolute most important thing is sleep. Getting enough sleep (even extra sleep if you're training extra hard) will get you 70% of the way. Don't get enough sleep, and nothing can save you. Other than that, stretching is very important to me, and I try to always make time for it (not always possible but I try). I took BCAAs for a while but didn't notice any difference (it's possible that I wasn't taking enough). I also drink protein shakes after lifting. Not sure if it helps with recovery, but I think it helps with improving strength. I actually ran out for about a week, and now I wonder if that's why my bench press got worse?!

            I take epsom salt baths when I'm really sore. It seems to help. You need to add a lot of salt though for it to be effective though. (But my favorite use of epsom salt baths is the night before a race--I think it really helps loosen up my muscles.) Massage-type things are good too--foam rollers and lacrosse balls. Go to mobilitywod.com and watch some of the videos.


            Originally posted by CiKi90
            I'm feeling like maybe I should add more sets to my workout, or that I should be doing more when I go to the gym. I mean, I don't know if I can really increase the weights anymore, but maybe I can do 15 reps, then 12, then 10? I don't even know if that would do much of anything. Soon I will look back at this dilemma, though, and laugh! Why? Well, because....
            I used to have that problem--wondering if I should increase my reps, but I think you're better off increasing the weight rather than the rep. I've read in a lot of places that increasing reps or adding an extra set doesn't really do much.


            Originally posted by CiKi90
            Today I looked at classes at the college I'm registered at for personal training! I was having a hard time finding a class though because the search engine was giving me fitness classes instead of personal training classes. I talked to my bf about it though, and he said we could go down to the school to talk to a counselor about classes for the fall! Fuckyeaaaaah!
            Yay!!!!

            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            You know, I'm starting to wonder if that's part of my problem. When I exercise I have difficulty breathing, and I start to yawn. Eating wheat gives me a pain in my lungs / chest. My dad has asthma, and for the first time test I started to wonder if I might have some kind of issue as well...
            I think the most likely explanation is that you're just not used to the feeling of being out of breath so it's making you a little anxious and hence the feeling that you can't take a deep breath (I saw your other thread but decided to just comment here). This will probably improve with time.

            The second possibility is that you have exercise-induced asthma. The fastest way to find out is to get a prescription for an inhaler and see if that helps. I feel the need to clear my throat a lot, but it gets worse when I'm working out hard. I have to consciously prevent myself from doing it when I'm doing high intensity stuff because it messes with my breathing. I thought it was exercise-induced asthma at one point and got a prescription for an inhaler. The inhaler did not do a damn thing so I stopped using it. I still haven't figured out what the problem is, but it doesn't really bother me that much so I just ignore it now. I mean, it's annoying, but it doesn't really get in the way of me doing stuff so... I still think it's a dairy allergy though. I have a really hard time giving up dairy for some reason.

            My journal

            Comment


            • 7/7/13

              3.25-mile run
              30 minutes elliptical
              A couple of box jumps on the "safe" boxes at my globo gym.

              7/8/13

              Reverse hyper: 2x15 @ 90 lbs
              Good morning: 1x4 @ 45 lbs; 4x4 @ 65 lbs
              Single-arm dumbbell overhead squat: 3x10 (per side) @ 10 lbs
              American kettlebell swings (don't know what the "American" means, don't ask me, that's just what it says on the board): 3x12 @ 30 lbs
              Band hamstring curls: 35 on each side
              Reverse hyper: 3x10 @ 70 lbs
              Band hamstring curls: 25 on each side

              My journal

              Comment


              • Ci, hmm, it's possible that I'm hyperventilating?

                Di, thanks! I should try that. I usually just stretch, but I could try to push it further.
                Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                Comment


                • Diene, I see that you are a runner and have been doing it for years. I wanted to ask, if you don't mind. Have you noticed the so called 'chronic cardio' effect to apply to you? As much as I love to run, I see myself less lean when running (a lot) is the only exercise I do.

                  Comment


                  • Graycat--Running is the only thing that has made me lose weight. At one point I lost 17 pounds through running alone, but I gained most of it back last August-September for reasons that are unknown to me (but, before that, I kept the weight off for years). I haven't been able to lose the weight with running this time--or with anything for that matter.

                    Anyway, so no, I have not noticed getting less lean when running is the only exercise I do. But if I stopped lifting weights now and only ran, I'm sure I'd lose muscle so in a sense that would be getting less lean. But that's only because I've built up all this muscle by lifting weights. But, back then, I started out as someone who never worked out, and, for a couple years, I mostly only did cardio. And it did not make me gain weight. It only made me lose.

                    I've read that marathon runners often gain about 5 pounds during their training. But that's some serious high-volume training that I've never done. The most I've ever run in a week is only about 30 miles. I'm sure the negative effects increase with training volume.

                    My journal

                    Comment


                    • I wonder about this whole cardio-will-kill-you thing. If you run really poorly (have really bad technique) / are totally unfit / do it to an extreme level I believe it would be damaging. But other than that, I wonder if the danger is overblown...

                      Gray and Di, I have a friend who also lost a ton of weight (36 lbs) by taking up running. She runs maybe three times a week for an hour, and said that running makes your legs skinny.

                      RECOVERY

                      Originally posted by CiKi90
                      Okay, YB-- for recovery time: it just depends on what's bothering me. If it's sore muscles, I try and do a 5-10 min stretch after my exercises, and go home and use my electric massager on the parts that hurt. If I wake up and I'm sore, sometimes I'll get some bath salts and soak in the bath till I get all prune-y. As far as supps go, BCAAs, zinc, magnesium, glucosamine, and l-glutamine should help if you wanna try any of that/up the dose on any you're already taking.
                      Originally posted by diene View Post
                      I think Gorbag is right. I've read that only elite athletes ever actually overtrain. What most people experience is overreaching, which is a less serious form of overtraining. And a lot of times overreaching is caused by improper recovery. However, it is possible to experience overreaching when you ramp up your workout volume/intensity really quickly (faster than your body can adapt). The hallmark sign of overreaching for me, other than feeling like I've been run over by a truck, is regression in performance. I've been running for several years so I'm pretty attuned to my running performance. I know there are good days and bad days, and what the range is for normal fluctuations of good vs. bad performance. When my performance is suddenly worse than normal for no reason (i.e., I'm not coming back from an extended break due to illness or injury), I know that I'm overreaching. This happened when I first started crossfit and was training for a 10-mile race. My runs went to hell, and I don't think any amount of recovery (other than recovering by doing fewer workouts) would have helped. My body just needed to adjust to the extra workload and the high intensity madness that is crossfit.

                      As for recovery, I think the absolute most important thing is sleep. Getting enough sleep (even extra sleep if you're training extra hard) will get you 70% of the way. Don't get enough sleep, and nothing can save you. Other than that, stretching is very important to me, and I try to always make time for it (not always possible but I try). I took BCAAs for a while but didn't notice any difference (it's possible that I wasn't taking enough). I also drink protein shakes after lifting. Not sure if it helps with recovery, but I think it helps with improving strength. I actually ran out for about a week, and now I wonder if that's why my bench press got worse?!

                      I take epsom salt baths when I'm really sore. It seems to help. You need to add a lot of salt though for it to be effective though. (But my favorite use of epsom salt baths is the night before a race--I think it really helps loosen up my muscles.) Massage-type things are good too--foam rollers and lacrosse balls. Go to mobilitywod.com and watch some of the videos
                      Thanks for the info guys! I asked Gorbag in his journal too, and here's what he suggested:

                      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      Hi, YogaBare; yes do the basic's; Get fast acting carbs (glucose!, not sucrose or fructose), sodium, enough liquids, and B-vitamins within the first hour of your workout and one hour after, before going over to starches. B-vitamins work to metabolize the glucose and is very, very important in my experience. I have found from my own “research” that B-vitamins are the only vitamins that I really need to supplement, but they do not work alone by themselves, you must get enough fast acting carbs to recover well! (Personally I use a glucosesyrup with B-complex, and also brewers yeast post-workout). Some people cannot assimilate or get enough vitamin B, since you need to refill them throughout the day when being very active and those people could inject B-complex once or twice a week.

                      Of course you also need enough sleep and as little stress as possible, but if you get the basics above, everything will become much easier!

                      This week I have done six workouts in the gym, averaging around 60- 70 set and two hours per session. I have also done seven cardio sessions around one hour in the early morning. And I have no problems by getting enough recovery, and I feel close to fantastic by doing what I am doing! But I also know very well the feeling of not getting enough recovery, but for me it works very well right now…

                      How much starches you need depends on activity level and honey cannot replace them unfortunately. If you are dieting down and in a calorie deficit and low on carbs, you will not recover that well, especially if you are doing high intensity training. But too much carbs can be bad also and make you sluggish or give a "carb hangover" the day after, so it is important to find the individual balance here.

                      I prefer powdered brewers yeast, but if in a hurry I use tablets as well! One scoop or 25 gram per day is excellent, but I sometimes use the double of that! Lots of B-vitamins in brewers yeast and a very good amino acid profile too!
                      (I had asked him if honey could replace starch, and more about brewer's yeast)

                      BREATHING

                      I think the most likely explanation is that you're just not used to the feeling of being out of breath so it's making you a little anxious and hence the feeling that you can't take a deep breath (I saw your other thread but decided to just comment here). This will probably improve with time.

                      The second possibility is that you have exercise-induced asthma. The fastest way to find out is to get a prescription for an inhaler and see if that helps. I feel the need to clear my throat a lot, but it gets worse when I'm working out hard. I have to consciously prevent myself from doing it when I'm doing high intensity stuff because it messes with my breathing. I thought it was exercise-induced asthma at one point and got a prescription for an inhaler. The inhaler did not do a damn thing so I stopped using it. I still haven't figured out what the problem is, but it doesn't really bother me that much so I just ignore it now. I mean, it's annoying, but it doesn't really get in the way of me doing stuff so... I still think it's a dairy allergy though. I have a really hard time giving up dairy for some reason.[/QUOTE]

                      I first started getting it when I was doing my yoga teacher training 18 months, so it's not an unfamiliar feeling. I actually think it may be from breathing incorrectly. I might try the inhaler though... thanks for the tip!

                      Originally posted by CiKi90
                      I dunno if you guys are having problems with controlling your breath or if its something beyond your control, but have y'all tried breathing techniques when running? When I'm having trouble catching my breath, I take a deep breath in through my nose for 4-6 running steps, then breathe it out slowly through my mouth, like I'm breathing out of a straw I that makes sense. Just thought I'd throw that out there!
                      I think that's the most likely option.. going to try that from now on Actually I tried it this evening after my sprints but didn't notice if it helped...

                      Originally posted by CiKi90
                      In regards to my exercise routine: I do a push/pull day and keep them separated because both routines are full body workouts. When you alternate your routine so that no two muscles are worked in the same way two days in a row, you are less likely to hurt ourself or become too sore. It also gives you the most proportionate muscularity, or so I've read. But I might start changing it up soon! iunno.
                      Gotcha
                      Last edited by YogaBare; 07-09-2013, 12:29 PM.
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

                      Comment


                      • HOW DO MUSCLES GROW?

                        I'm so glad we have this thread, cos' now I can ask all my novice questions without fear of being laughed

                        I asked google and found these two articles.

                        Muscle Growth Part 1: The Science Behind Why, And How, Does A Muscle Grow And Get Stronger? | SimplyShredded.com
                        Muscle Growth Part 2: The Science Behind Why, And How, Does A Muscle Grow And Get Stronger? | SimplyShredded.com

                        If anyone:
                        a) Knows the answer
                        b) Can read these articles and translate

                        I'd love to hear!

                        Tuesday 9th July, 2013
                        30 min fast cycle (getting faster on my bike!)
                        75 min yoga class (teaching - probably 30 mins of yoga).
                        6 x 100 metre sprints

                        Recovery:
                        raspberry jello
                        4 x vit b complex
                        smoked salmon
                        cup of tea w/ milk, sugar, gelatine. (I was trying to hit Gorbag's glucose / protein / Vit B suggestions... without using starch).
                        Salt bath.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by diene View Post
                          Graycat--Running is the only thing that has made me lose weight. At one point I lost 17 pounds through running alone, but I gained most of it back last August-September for reasons that are unknown to me (but, before that, I kept the weight off for years). I haven't been able to lose the weight with running this time--or with anything for that matter.

                          Anyway, so no, I have not noticed getting less lean when running is the only exercise I do. But if I stopped lifting weights now and only ran, I'm sure I'd lose muscle so in a sense that would be getting less lean. But that's only because I've built up all this muscle by lifting weights. But, back then, I started out as someone who never worked out, and, for a couple years, I mostly only did cardio. And it did not make me gain weight. It only made me lose.

                          I've read that marathon runners often gain about 5 pounds during their training. But that's some serious high-volume training that I've never done. The most I've ever run in a week is only about 30 miles. I'm sure the negative effects increase with training volume.
                          I have noticed that I get smaller (I don't weigh) only when I combine running with tabata style HIIT and lifting. I used to do 25 - 30 miles for a good period of time - 6+ months. I felt more bloated during that time. I've heard some people tend to retain water when doing lots of cardio. I kept my calories in check too

                          Comment


                          • I think doing any kind of exercise causes water retention. I actually retain more water after heavy lifting than after cardio. Yeah, so my running volume is normally not that high. I've never done 25-30 miles for a 6-month period. I only hit 25-30 miles when I'm training for a race, and then the 30-mile week is like the peak of the training cycle.

                            Back when I lost all that weight my routine was 4 days cardio: 2 days of running and 2 days of elliptical (alternate days) - 60 minutes each. At some point I incorporated a HIIT session too (sprints on treadmill). For a while I did 3 HIIT sessions a week--I was crazy and would do the HIIT session, then continue running until I hit 60 minutes total of running. Didn't notice any additional weight loss from the HIIT session, and my knees started to hurt after a few weeks so I stopped and cut back to only one HIIT session per week. I still do one HIIT session per week--it's always sprints, either on treadmill or outside.

                            I also hula-hooped--those heavy workout hoops. I need to start again. I think that really helped me lose the fat around my waist.

                            Hey, YB, you can buy glucose, you know. It's usually called dextrose. I bought a bunch on Amazon. (And then you can put glucose instead of sugar in your tea. Gorbag did say glucose, not sucrose or fructose, but, TBH, I'm not too worried about the timing of the food intake, except maybe protein. I mean as long as you get enough carbs, in the form of starch (sorry, Ray Peat) because starch = glucose and glucose >> fructose for recovery.

                            Man, Gorbag is a machine. 1 hour of cardio and 2 hours of weights a day. And he's 50! Hope I can do all that when I'm 50!!

                            Edited to add workout:

                            7/9/13
                            3 x 1:10-minute plank hold
                            Ring dip progression--practice holding self up on rings
                            Split jerk: 1x2 (per side) @ 15 lbs; 1x2@35 lbs; 1x2@45 lbs; 1x2@55 lbs; 1x2@65 lbs; 1x2@70 lbs; 1x2@75 lbs; 1x2@80 lbs
                            WOD
                            2 banded pullups
                            4 power cleans @ 55 lbs
                            6 burpee barbell lateral hops
                            200-m run
                            8 rounds for time--took me 24:10 to finish
                            Last edited by diene; 07-09-2013, 04:07 PM.

                            My journal

                            Comment


                            • YB, I was told my breathing problems were exercise induced asthma and an inhaler helped, so I believe that to be the case for me. It could probably be improved with conditioning.

                              Neck pain jumping rope
                              Could only get 5 min of jumping rope in because my neck starts to hurt terribly. This happens often when I jump rope. Am I not holding my head correctly? I keep my shoulders back and my chin tucked... HELP! I'm pretty sure that jumping rope is my "energizing" exercise. I really want to be able to do it for more than 5 minutes...
                              Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                              Comment


                              • No not 5 min in a row! 1 minute at a time (turns out to be a little over 100 rotations depending on speed). Next time I try it I'll be sure to focus on my arms and... Focus. Thankew!!
                                Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                                Comment

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