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  • #16
    Originally posted by Zach View Post
    Some people have messed themselves up so bad with low carb, sugar avoidance, high pufa, inflammatory diets that their body can no longer cope with sugar correctly. Then instead of fixing that, they blame carbs and go further down the hole.

    I dont believe something good should ever first be harmful so if you get symptoms with anything then avoid it. That said, sugar is different, just like first going on low carb you will get the carb flu, going high carb will give you energy crashes because you are not good at metabolizing it yet. As for juice, i can only ask you to try raw fresh juice and see how you react.

    My advice is still to try a high sugar, low fat/low meat diet. Get most of your calories from any form of simple sugar that does not upset you and also from fresh juice. Get most of your protein from gelatin and a few eggs, shellfish and very little meat. Take digestive enzymes and drink coffee. Honestly if you are hurting so much just doing what you are doing, what do you have to lose to try something that im guessing you have never tried?
    I'm starting to wonder if I fucked myself up from just six months VLC / VHP (very high pufa... you don't even want to know how many nuts I was eating.) Since starting to raise my body temp my libido has come back full throttle, but it's made me realise that I pretty much didn't have any since cutting carbs 12 months ago! And people kept telling me that meat made you virile... Nu-uh. I was definitely much more "amorous" as a veggie!

    I agree with Zach about what to eat. When he was suggesting Peat before I was thinking of the high dairy content, which I know you're not able for. Tbh that's pretty much my diet! I also use loads of coconut milk and bananas. I would take it really, really slowly if I was you. Gradually start to introduce those things. I think part of what has fucked me up is the extremities in what I've done.

    Personally I'm a big fan of coconut water, and starch. I was trying to resist eating white rice because it lacked "nutrient density" but the reality is I love it and it makes me feel good, so why not? Not everything needs to have an impressive profile on paper to be good for you. Look at coconut oil. Not much nutrition in that, but it's a wonder food.

    And yeah, also agree about the carb crashes. When I started "eating a ton" I would crash from just a bit of rice. But quite quickly I could eat more and more and just get good energy from it.

    There's a growing body of people who believe refined sugar is innocuous and Lustig's video is fear mongering propaganda. What opened my eyes was this thread that popped up on MDA last summer: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread59985.html

    The guy we're all quizzing (Danny Roddy) has a blog and is a big endorser of Ray Peat's work. I'd start with that thread and if you're interested you should start to read Peat. He's amazing.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-23-2013, 01:43 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ombat View Post
      You're right, I've never tried this. It's never been suggested to me.

      I'll start with juicing (too much going on tomorrow, so the next day) and let you what happens. I've cut way down on fat recently (eating lean meats mostly) and have upped the carbs anyway (thank you, hormone induced binges), so hopefully I won't be in too poor shape when it comes to energy crashes. I'm already experiencing them anyway..

      P.S. What is your stance on starch as carb source (sweet potatoes and the like)? And coconut water? I have had good reactions to coconut water. There's nothing else in the bottle, just sugar and electrolytes, right?
      Starch can be both good and bad. The bad is if you are not digesting it correctly then it will cause major bloating and gas, basically its just food for all the bacteria. On the other hand potatoes are great for nutrition. Id advise you to stick with sugar for the first day or two to see how you react and then bring the potatoes back in. White rice is always fine because it his very little fiber so its like pure glucose. If coconut water makes you feel good then drink it! People in the tropics call it natures breast milk and it can be used as a blood transfusion. Its good stuff. My only problem is if you are not in the tropics then the water can be suspect because of the long journey it needs to take.

      I agree with YB to take all these recomendations slowly. Start with a bit of sugar first thing in the morning and any time for start feeling run down. Try replacing a meal with a fresh juice, etc.

      YB, i did the same thing with LC/HP. I was eating tons of nuts, pork, chicken, avocados, avocado oil, flax oil, flax seeds, 10+g fish oil, etc. this was back in the day when you couldnt get enough of the stuff. And ill put my few years of suffering against anyones.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi guys, I've got a busy day ahead of me but I've read your comments and I'll be back later to reply.

        Off to finish sipping my maple sugar roasted yerba mate
        Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

        Comment


        • #19
          I just wanted to share a line from Richfield's body temp book:

          "People with low body temperatures often avoid dressing warmly, because they both keep themselves going and keep themselves warm with adrenaline. If they warm themselves up by other means such as warm clothing, then they shut down their adrenaline supply and crash into chronic fatigue. However, once their body temperature has been reset back up to 98.6oF, they have no problem dressing warmly, because they can keep going just fine at 98.6oF without adrenaline."
          Thought it might be relevant

          Also, I meant to say: in relation to the crying, if you want to PM me to talk about anything then please do. I have the feeling that I'll know where you're coming from. Or if you want to share anything here, do that too Personally I've found being open and bare extremely liberating.

          hugs!
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            YB, i did the same thing with LC/HP. I was eating tons of nuts, pork, chicken, avocados, avocado oil, flax oil, flax seeds, 10+g fish oil, etc. this was back in the day when you couldnt get enough of the stuff. And ill put my few years of suffering against anyones.
            I know - I read that thing you were telling me about on 180 degrees

            I'm speculating on how much damage I did in those six months. I'm guessing I was probably on tenderhooks anyway and this sent me over the edge.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              I'm starting to wonder if I fucked myself up from just six months VLC / VHP (very high pufa... you don't even want to know how many nuts I was eating.) Since starting to raise my body temp my libido has come back full throttle, but it's made me realise that I pretty much didn't have any since cutting carbs 12 months ago! And people kept telling me that meat made you virile... Nu-uh. I was definitely much more "amorous" as a veggie!
              Originally posted by Zach
              YB, i did the same thing with LC/HP. I was eating tons of nuts, pork, chicken, avocados, avocado oil, flax oil, flax seeds, 10+g fish oil, etc. this was back in the day when you couldnt get enough of the stuff. And ill put my few years of suffering against anyones.
              Glad I stopped after 4 months… Shit. Even before "paleo" I would just sit down in front of my open fridge with my hand in a jar of almond butter. Side note: I've actually developed an allergy, complete reasons unknown, in the form of patches of skin discoloration on my neck when I eat almonds. I think it might have been to overconsumption while my gut was already in a terrible state. I don't know about other nuts. Anyway, I also went really heavy on pork and chicken, avocados. Recently I've been taking a small amount of fermented cod liver oil daily for vitamin D and it seems to be helping my acne, but I cut it out about a week ago because of PUFA fear mongering but I'm going to add it back in because 2ml a day is not going to kill me. Stupid, extremist BS… (not you guys).

              Originally posted by YogaBare
              I agree with Zach about what to eat. When he was suggesting Peat before I was thinking of the high dairy content, which I know you're not able for. Tbh that's pretty much my diet! I also use loads of coconut milk and bananas. I would take it really, really slowly if I was you. Gradually start to introduce those things. I think part of what has fucked me up is the extremities in what I've done.

              Personally I'm a big fan of coconut water, and starch. I was trying to resist eating white rice because it lacked "nutrient density" but the reality is I love it and it makes me feel good, so why not? Not everything needs to have an impressive profile on paper to be good for you. Look at coconut oil. Not much nutrition in that, but it's a wonder food.
              Originally posted by Zach View Post
              Starch can be both good and bad. The bad is if you are not digesting it correctly then it will cause major bloating and gas, basically its just food for all the bacteria. On the other hand potatoes are great for nutrition. Id advise you to stick with sugar for the first day or two to see how you react and then bring the potatoes back in. White rice is always fine because it his very little fiber so its like pure glucose. If coconut water makes you feel good then drink it! People in the tropics call it natures breast milk and it can be used as a blood transfusion. Its good stuff. My only problem is if you are not in the tropics then the water can be suspect because of the long journey it needs to take.

              I agree with YB to take all these recomendations slowly. Start with a bit of sugar first thing in the morning and any time for start feeling run down. Try replacing a meal with a fresh juice, etc.
              Glad that you agree, YB. And don't worry, I'm done jumping into things head first. It has gotten me in trouble way too many times. I'll take the sweet potatoes slowly (I'm pretty certain about what amounts I can tolerate comfortably, it's just sticking to it… ) and won't overdo it on the coconut water of unknown and possibly sketchy nature... Well, I won't overdo anything. That's my vow and you have to make sure I stick to it. Why do we forget so quickly that dose makes the poison?

              Originally posted by YogaBare
              And yeah, also agree about the carb crashes. When I started "eating a ton" I would crash from just a bit of rice. But quite quickly I could eat more and more and just get good energy from it.

              There's a growing body of people who believe refined sugar is innocuous and Lustig's video is fear mongering propaganda. What opened my eyes was this thread that popped up on MDA last summer: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread59985.html

              The guy we're all quizzing (Danny Roddy) has a blog and is a big endorser of Ray Peat's work. I'd start with that thread and if you're interested you should start to read Peat. He's amazing.
              I'm actually having a bit of a dizzy spell as I write this. I had lunch about 4.5 hours ago and I'm nowhere near hungry but the room is spinning. Unfortunately I'm on campus for another hour.

              Thanks for the link - I remember seeing this thread pop up at one point but haven't read too much into it. That will be my homework for tonight

              Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              I just wanted to share a line from Richfield's body temp book:

              Thought it might be relevant

              Also, I meant to say: in relation to the crying, if you want to PM me to talk about anything then please do. I have the feeling that I'll know where you're coming from. Or if you want to share anything here, do that too Personally I've found being open and bare extremely liberating.

              hugs!
              I completely relate! Even when I'm cold I avoid wearing too much. I never knew why.

              That's really sweet, thank you! And I want you to know that I extend the same offer. I think it was just a perfect storm of school stress, health/body stress, and hormones. Also, all of this is kind of scary;although I've tried numerous things to heal myself, this is by far the most out there. Eat sugar?? WTF are you crazy?

              On another note, I've read a bit on hypothyroid from Ray Peat today and will have some questions...

              Hope you guys are having a good day.
              Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ombat View Post
                That's really sweet, thank you! And I want you to know that I extend the same offer. I think it was just a perfect storm of school stress, health/body stress, and hormones. Also, all of this is kind of scary;although I've tried numerous things to heal myself, this is by far the most out there. Eat sugar?? WTF are you crazy?

                On another note, I've read a bit on hypothyroid from Ray Peat today and will have some questions...
                You're welcome! And thank you too.

                Dude, I totally get you - the "Eating a Ton" thing was the craziest thing I've ever done to get over my ED. But it worked! So far so good anyway...

                Sometimes we need to try something counter intuitive.

                Btw, re. the fish oils - I just posted this on Cierra's wall: It's some more Peat The Great Fish Oil Experiment
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  You're welcome! And thank you too.

                  Dude, I totally get you - the "Eating a Ton" thing was the craziest thing I've ever done to get over my ED. But it worked! So far so good anyway...

                  Sometimes we need to try something counter intuitive.

                  Btw, re. the fish oils - I just posted this on Cierra's wall: It's some more Peat The Great Fish Oil Experiment
                  Me too, but I really wish my ass would fit better into my jeans already.

                  But, but, the government said it was "generally regarded as safe".... *blinks*
                  I eat a lot of salmon. I'll stop the fish oil.
                  Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Tuesday, April 23

                    Slept from 12-6:30. Felt horribly groggy upon waking. Not the norm. but I came out of it pretty quickly and had no energy crash all day! I got a little sleepy in the early afternoon but it wasn't heavy, head drooping exhaustion.

                    Food/Digestion:
                    AM: -gelatin instead of glutamine
                    Painful cramping and constipation. Definitely from what I did 2 days ago + possibly the applesauce? I don't know.
                    -roasted mate with maple sugar (2 cups) Did not result in any excess bloat! Actually by mid morning my stomach may have even gotten smaller. It also kept me very satiated throughout the morning. +1000, Zach.
                    MIDDAY: -Chicken, rice, applesauce, enzymes
                    PM: -Tuna, rice, a little turkey, enzymes
                    -Chicken, applesauce, little rice

                    I felt very woozy and dizzy a few hours after lunch.
                    Also, I'm not staying away from chicken. Pork I understand, but chicken is too easy, it's organic, free range, and I'm not eating the skin (even though it's the tastiest part )

                    Temp:
                    Freezing + Sweating all morning. A lovely combination.

                    Acne:
                    I look like a meth addict. And I don’t even do that many drugs… I did start my TOM today though, so I usually get mild respite from the outbreaks for a couple of weeks.
                    −−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−-

                    I borrowed a juicer from my friend and will give it a go tomorrow morning. I'm sticking with the lowest FODMAP fruits to lessen the chance of winding up in excruciating pain: pineapple (has been pretty easy on me in the past), oranges (fingers crossed I don't balloon up again), and melon. I also bought carrots (hoping I'll do better on the juice than I do on carrots themselves), spinach, ginger, mint, and cilantro. Orange carrot ginger sounds delicious to me. Will probably make that tomorrow's breakfast! Some sort of cilantro melon or mint cucumber melon combo sounds good too… It will be a tasty experiment.
                    −−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−

                    Read a Peat article on hypothyroidism to give myself a fighting chance of standing my ground against the school doctor (yeah, roll your eyes some more) on Friday. The only thing I don't have is the adrenaline induced restless sleep problems. YB I know you suffer from this. Is it necessary for hypo? I sleep like a log and never awaken in the middle of the night. I related to all of the issues regarding high cortisone and adrenaline as compensation for the thyroid problems. Apparently I have adrenal fatigue, according to my naturopath. My pulse rate is usually high (adrenaline?), and lmy temperature is usually pretty low (high 96's upon waking, mid 97's during the day but sometimes higher).
                    But hypoglycemia also tends to decrease the conversion of T4 to T3, so heat production often decreases when a person is hungry. First, their fingers, toes, and nose will get cold, because adrenalin, or adrenergic sympathetic nervous activity, will increase to keep the brain and heart at a normal temperature, by reducing circulation to the skin and extremities. Despite the temperature-regulating effect of adrenalin, the reduced heat production resulting from decreased T3 will make a person susceptible to hypothermia if the environment is cool.
                    Since food, especially carbohydrate and protein, will increase blood sugar and T3 production, eating is “thermogenic,” and the oral (or eardrum) temperature is likely to rise after eating.
                    Is this why my nose runs when I eat most of the time? Same thing happens when I go from a cold to a warm environment. So is my body the cold to warm environment when I eat? Or did I just make that up…
                    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ombat View Post
                      Tuesday, April 23
                      Read a Peat article on hypothyroidism to give myself a fighting chance of standing my ground against the school doctor (yeah, roll your eyes some more) on Friday. The only thing I don't have is the adrenaline induced restless sleep problems. YB I know you suffer from this. Is it necessary for hypo? I sleep like a log and never awaken in the middle of the night. I related to all of the issues regarding high cortisone and adrenaline as compensation for the thyroid problems. Apparently I have adrenal fatigue, according to my naturopath. My pulse rate is usually high (adrenaline?), and lmy temperature is usually pretty low (high 96's upon waking, mid 97's during the day but sometimes higher).


                      Is this why my nose runs when I eat most of the time? Same thing happens when I go from a cold to a warm environment. So is my body the cold to warm environment when I eat? Or did I just make that up…
                      Ha, seeing you read Peat's article made me smile - we're slowly but surely infiltrating MDA

                      My mum has Hashimotos and doesn't have sleep problems, so no, my kind of insomnia is not a characteristic of thyroid issues. From what I'm learning, I believe people have different thyroid symptoms based on the particular dance of their thyroid hormones. Some people with thyroid issues develop problems with their adrenals, some with their stomach, some with their nervous system etc. My mum developed pernicious anemia as a result of Hashis. So basically, if your thyroid is fucked it can pave the way for a huge number of health issues, not just insomnia, or lack of energy.

                      Someone on the Ray Peat forum gave me this very helpful answer:

                      Peat is very skeptical to the thyroid lab tests to begin with, probably for good reason. "Normal" free T3 is not a sign that things are the way they should. But if you have a consistently low free T3, it is a sign something is definitely wrong. I had way low free T3 for seven months before starting desiccated thyroid.

                      Measuring heart rate, taking temperature and monitor other symptoms is important - more important than lab tests. I even have the GD hammer.

                      I was following the Total T3 measurement philosophy for a while (as recommended by one of the Paleo "guru" clinicians). But as I was not getting any results with his focus on reverse T3, I eventually started reading Peat. This led me to understand that my problem was the conversion of T4 to active thyroid hormone in the liver. This has several very practical applications. The reverse T3 focus for me left more questions than answers. What´s the practical implications of the hypothesis that your problem is high reverse T3? Take pure T3 instead of desiccated? Maybe - but I have seen people focusing on reverse T3 do that, and then having better results with desiccated. Anyway, I see that Peat mention Total T3 a couple of places. Maybe it can be helpful for some people.

                      Anyway, for many women, I think the focus on improving conversion of T4 to T3 is very helpful - focusing on the liver: reducing excess estrogen, supplying glucose to liver cells, trying to increase glycogen stores in muscles and liver etc.

                      For me, I have to say there has been a significant correlation between free T3 lab test results and other symptoms of too little active thyroid hormone. One example: in December I started to feel a bit crappy again. Low energy, sleep deteriorated, feeling of rapid and heavy heart beat (adrenaline) etc. My morning waking HR was 39 (yes, I am not exaggerating). My morning temperature was stable, but that has been the case with me - temps have had limited diagnostic value, very consistent. Anyway, I had a free T3 test, and rightly, it had dropped below the lab range again.

                      Another note on lab tests: they vary significantly from lab to lab, so don´t take one test results as something absolute. One example: when I first started having symptoms, I got a doctor to prescribe several tests for me, including anti-bodies associated with both hyper and hypo. To get these he had to send my blood to two different labs - the top hospital for hormonal diseases and the best private lab in my native country (Europe). For some reason, he asked both labs to test Free T3. The blood was drawn at the exact same time. The free T3 results were significantly different. One lab measured free T3 to be below their lab range. The other came out lower middle, within the normal functional range.
                      My nose drips aswell! I've been thinking about it. I wonder if it's something to do with the body releasing water as it changes temperature? Like, people often find that they have to pee if they go into a swimming pool.

                      I usually pee an awful lot when I drink water, but since keeping warm I'm going a lot less. I interpret that as in the past my body would start to release water when my kidneys dropped to /were at a lower temp, wheras now it absorbs it. Similarly for the sweat: when the neck etc. changes temp the body releases water...

                      I don;t know: it's a theory I'm working on!
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        To support thyroid without dairy, you'll need to have a good source of calcium. Egg shell calcium would be fine. Calcium with sufficient levels of vitamin a and k2 will also help a lot with acne.

                        Btw, nose, feet and hands often feel the coldest because that's where the skin tissue is the coldest on your body. Even if you're warm inside, those areas still could feel cold. My nose gets cold too sometimes, depends on allergies.
                        Make America Great Again

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                          To support thyroid without dairy, you'll need to have a good source of calcium. Egg shell calcium would be fine. Calcium with sufficient levels of vitamin a and k2 will also help a lot with acne.
                          Dude, what about calcium supps? Sufficient?
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Dude, what about calcium supps? Sufficient?
                            Depends, they usually have a lot of junk in them. If you don't want to make egg shell calcium or eat dairy, I would get a calcium carbonate powder like this one:

                            Now Foods, Calcium Carbonate, 100% Pure Powder, 12 oz (340 g) - iHerb.com
                            Make America Great Again

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                              Depends, they usually have a lot of junk in them. If you don't want to make egg shell calcium or eat dairy, I would get a calcium carbonate powder like this one:

                              Now Foods, Calcium Carbonate, 100% Pure Powder, 12 oz (340 g) - iHerb.com
                              Thanks! I just checked out Egg Shell calcium. Seems liek a bit of work, but probably worth it... How to Make Eggshell Calcium (and Why You’d Want to) - Mama Natural
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                Thanks! I just checked out Egg Shell calcium. Seems liek a bit of work, but probably worth it... How to Make Eggshell Calcium (and Why You’d Want to) - Mama Natural
                                I think it's not worth the trouble, calcium carbonate is the same thing as the calcium in egg shells, so you're good just using that.
                                Make America Great Again

                                Comment

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