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  • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
    I keep hearing both. Lots of people who raise temp with food talk about turning down the thermostat and sweating at normal room temperature.
    Well, there's two things going on here:
    1) Body temperature set point
    2) Thyroid

    A well functioning thyroid maintains homeostasis. However, if the body is set to a low temp, I presume that the thyroid is implicit in maintaining this temp. So maybe people who reset their body temp have simultaneously overstimulated their thyroid and become a bit hyper, which makes them intolerant to the heat.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GoJenGo View Post
      PaleoMom, so glad to hear that you're feeling better. I'm sorry you were feeling so discouraged and frustrated. Just wanted to encourage you to hang in there and keep at it, no matter which direction you are now looking toward. What you've been doing and are continuing to do is no small undertaking and it is going to pay off and be worth it. This process of seeking, learning and giving different promising approaches a shot is the only way we'll ever see improvement. I admire your efforts and appreciate your sharing your experience with so many of us. I'm not surprised that so many can relate and we are learning from you.

      Stay toasty.
      Such a nice message (I know it wasn't to me, but) you're a sweet heart Jen!
      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

      - Ray Peat

      Comment


      • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
        Well, there's two things going on here:
        1) Body temperature set point
        2) Thyroid

        A well functioning thyroid maintains homeostasis. However, if the body is set to a low temp, I presume that the thyroid is implicit in maintaining this temp. So maybe people who reset their body temp have simultaneously overstimulated their thyroid and become a bit hyper, which makes them intolerant to the heat.
        Wim Hoff is quite tolerant to both cold and heat which to me seams like the ideal to strive for. One thing that bothered me about Richfield's work was his statement that raising temp will leave a person more tolerant of the heat and less tolerant of the cold. That still seems unbalanced. Perhaps what is missing is that he doesn't support the effort by using food as another tool to raise the temperature. It seems like his methods are great for a quick increase in temp that could takes many months with food alone. I think it would be important though to be eating well and enough so that the body will have the ability to stay warm without the reliance on hot showers and drinks or feeling like you now have to obsess over keeping your temp up at all times. Great to start out with both techniques but I think the body should be able to take care of itself after awhile as long as the food is right. I think a healthy body should be able to maintain temp even when it's cold outside and I want to take a walk without a coat.
        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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        • Today was really interesting. I spent a lot of time keeping my temperature up and I feel like it payed off. I almost crashed late morning but came back to life and the rest of the day was great. I took my temperature a ton and found that the heart palpitations seem to come when my temperature is going down and go away while it's rising, even if it I'm not warmed up yet. My mind is pretty clear and alert and my energy felt good, although I didn't do much because I was bundled up with the rice pack to stay warm.

          My appetite has gone down a ton with the heat. I don't know if I should go with it or if not eating more will keep my metabolism from being able to take over the body heat job. It wasn't super low perhaps 1700. I'm sweating quite a bit (for me anyway) and feeling like I'm tolerating the hot feeling better already. Tonight I'm going to put more effort into keeping warmer through the night. I find that I'm hot the first half but the second have I'm slightly on the cool side. Sleep has been pretty heavy and good.

          I've been drinking quite a bit of water and yet peeing less. Partly this is due to the sweating I'm sure, but I'm hoping that it is also partly due to my body absorbing the water better instead of just letting it fly right through me unused.

          Thanks everyone for the encouragement and support and also for the great new info that keeps surfacing!
          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
            the heart palpitations seem to come when my temperature is going down and go away while it's rising, even if it I'm not warmed up yet.
            That's really interesting that youre noticing that! Now that you mention it, I noticed that my heart was thudding slightly again when I was in bed last night. Since temperature drops at night it would make sense.[/QUOTE]

            Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
            My appetite has gone down a ton with the heat. I don't know if I should go with it or if not eating more will keep my metabolism from being able to take over the body heat job. It wasn't super low perhaps 1700.
            I'm noticing the exact same thing! My appetite has been shrinking anyway since the overfeeding, but the last two days it's been a struggle to eat enough. I mana

            Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
            I've been drinking quite a bit of water and yet peeing less. Partly this is due to the sweating I'm sure, but I'm hoping that it is also partly due to my body absorbing the water better instead of just letting it fly right through me unused.
            Also noticing this, and I definitely have less thirst too. Peeing way less, and when I do pee it's really dark! It makes perfect sense. It was one of my projected outcomes for the experiment.

            Paleomom, do you think I should post my weight gain (or lack thereof) on the "Women who eat a ton" thread? I'm kind of holding back because I know that most others gained a lot more, and I don't want to upset anyone...

            Keep fighting the good fight! You're an inspiration
            Last edited by YogaBare; 04-15-2013, 12:38 AM.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • YB, it is always nice we're experiencing similar things. I feel like I'm on the right track with this. It shouldn't be too hard as I'm only trying to keep up the temp I wake up with now, so I doubt my body will fight it too much. I feel great this morning!

              I do think you should post your gain/loss. It is even more important when you have something different than the norm. Where would we be if people only shared when their experiences matched the expected outcomes?
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                Wim Hoff is quite tolerant to both cold and heat which to me seams like the ideal to strive for. One thing that bothered me about Richfield's work was his statement that raising temp will leave a person more tolerant of the heat and less tolerant of the cold. That still seems unbalanced. Perhaps what is missing is that he doesn't support the effort by using food as another tool to raise the temperature. It seems like his methods are great for a quick increase in temp that could takes many months with food alone. I think it would be important though to be eating well and enough so that the body will have the ability to stay warm without the reliance on hot showers and drinks or feeling like you now have to obsess over keeping your temp up at all times. Great to start out with both techniques but I think the body should be able to take care of itself after awhile as long as the food is right. I think a healthy body should be able to maintain temp even when it's cold outside and I want to take a walk without a coat.
                Meant to say - I think you are right on with this. I totally respect Steve's work, but it's all a bit neurotic. I don't want to live my life with a thermometer in my mouth... Combining the keeping warm with a thermic diet can only be a good thing.

                I stayed at 37C for at least 4 hours today, which is an amazing result I think!
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • *just reposting this from the main thread for record keeping purposes*

                  Today was my weekly weigh in and I'm down another .6 which gives me an average loss of 1/2 pound a week. I'm eating around twice as many calories as I used to. I've stopped pushing food like I did in the beginning but I still eat when I'm hungry and I don't stop until satisfied. Very little physical activity has taken place.

                  My temperature is up. I'm in the cold half of the month and my morning temps are 98.4 most days. During the warmer half my temp was regularly 98.6-99 with only a few days that went below that.

                  I think I would still be gaining if I was still pushing the food but by backing off as my hunger decreased, I feel like I'm in a balanced place of eating as much as my body asks for and now starting to finally lose a few pounds. I don't have cravings, I don't binge. My energy has been down for a good portion of this but I feel like it has a lot to do with my hydration level.
                  I've been drinking more and trying to keep my body warm during the day to keep my daytime temp up and that seems to be increasing my absorption of water and my energy seems to be going back up again.

                  If my energy keeps coming back up and my weight keeps slipping down I'll consider this a very successful experiment that I would recommend to others. It is a wonderful thing to be able to eat a normal amount of food!
                  PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Meant to say - I think you are right on with this. I totally respect Steve's work, but it's all a bit neurotic. I don't want to live my life with a thermometer in my mouth... Combining the keeping warm with a thermic diet can only be a good thing.

                    I stayed at 37C for at least 4 hours today, which is an amazing result I think!
                    That's great! Sounds like this is going to me a much faster way for you to get your temp up.

                    I actually have reactivated a jaw problem from the amount of time I've spent with the thermometer in my mouth the last few days. The darn glass one is so slow, but always gives me a nice high number which motivates me to use it anyway
                    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                    • I don't have a lot to share but thought I'd check in a bit. I don't weigh in for a few days yet but I feel like I'm still going down very slowly. I've been having bursts of energy and then fatigue but that seems to be brought on by the massive amount of manual digging and shoveling I'm doing every time I have the energy to do it. Seems I can handle a day of working hard and then the next day I crash with fatigue and rest all day. I have been distracted with the work or recovery from that work and not been taking my daytime temp very often. It has been somewhat low a few times but not too bad. My morning temp is 98.4 practically every day now. I think this is awesome since I'm in the cool part of my cycle. I think by this time next month I'll be up to 98.6/7. Hopefully by then my daytime temp will stay up there too and I'll be done working on raising temperature.

                      Sleep has been great again and I don't wake up to pee anymore. I've been drinking more plain water which seems to be good for me. Even herbal teas don't seem to absorb as well. I keep drinking more but peeing slightly less. Certainly seem to absorb liquids now instead of just passing them through. The times when my daytime temp crashed a bit I noticed I started peeing a bunch again, just like YB. I haven't been feeling 100% rested when I wake up though. This is probably from staying up too late watching tv instead of getting to bed earlier. Once I fall asleep though, it is deep and solid.

                      I think I'm averaging around 2000-2200 calories a day, but I'm not really tracking. Some days are more/less depending on activity. My protein is pretty low still. Probably 60-80 grams a day. I've just really lost a desire to eat meat. I've never craved meat (by meat I mean any flesh) but now I can't even motivate myself to cook it up. Just really sounds unappealing. After reading PHD diet and Stone's work I'm not worried that it is too low. I never felt good eating more protein either. I usually get most of it from flesh though and now it is almost all from eggs and raw dairy.

                      I've been forgetting to scrutinize myself in the mirror for several days in a row. Only looked a few times this whole week. This is normally a several times a day activity. I'll put this in the very positive psychological healing category. I also only measured once and haven't stepped on the scale since my designated weigh in day. Good stuff
                      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                      • I think I'm crashing again. My adrenal fatigue seems to be back. I feel so worn out, weak, fuzzy headed blah, blah, blah. I know all of this too well and thought it was behind me forever. I had a few good days mixed in but overall I'm exhausted and not functioning like a person. I don't know what it is about eating more that did this to me, but I worked very hard for well over a decade to recover from adrenal fatigue and now it is back in a month. WTF. This cannot take over my life again. I've given up my youth to it and I desperately feel like it is my turn to feel like a person. Last summer I was finally able to feel pretty energetic and normal, the first time ever. How is this happening again? I don't know what to do to stop and reverse this. Starve myself? That can only cause more stress. What do I do? I'm going to bed, that is all I can do.
                        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                        • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                          I think I'm crashing again. My adrenal fatigue seems to be back. I feel so worn out, weak, fuzzy headed blah, blah, blah. I know all of this too well and thought it was behind me forever. I had a few good days mixed in but overall I'm exhausted and not functioning like a person. I don't know what it is about eating more that did this to me, but I worked very hard for well over a decade to recover from adrenal fatigue and now it is back in a month. WTF. This cannot take over my life again. I've given up my youth to it and I desperately feel like it is my turn to feel like a person. Last summer I was finally able to feel pretty energetic and normal, the first time ever. How is this happening again? I don't know what to do to stop and reverse this. Starve myself? That can only cause more stress. What do I do? I'm going to bed, that is all I can do.
                          PM, First thing I'd like you to do is read back over what you wrote in your journal yesterday. So much positiivty in that entry! So much win! Remember all the good things that are coming out of this.

                          Now, secondly, it can't be possible that eating more is making you relapse into adrenal fatigue. It sounds to me like you are going through a healing crisis, and you are resisting it. You probably need to give yourself the time to heal, but as soon as you start to feel normal you wear yourself out digging in the garden. I think you need to go a lot slower.

                          I can understand that things are tough and you feel like you're going backwards. I really started to get scared about all this N=1 stuff when I saw my cholesterol. This is the reality: we're all fiddling around in the dark. We haven't found what works for us. The important thing is not to deviate off course too much. I think it's important that the changes from now on are small so that you dont shock your body any more.

                          Be really, really gentle with yourself. If you have energy, do an hour in the garden - not a day. Do you ever meditate? Do you like music? Hugs! (<----seriously, I should just get that word tattooed on my head. Or at least put it as my avatar )
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            PM, First thing I'd like you to do is read back over what you wrote in your journal yesterday. So much positiivty in that entry! So much win! Remember all the good things that are coming out of this.

                            Now, secondly, it can't be possible that eating more is making you relapse into adrenal fatigue. It sounds to me like you are going through a healing crisis, and you are resisting it. You probably need to give yourself the time to heal, but as soon as you start to feel normal you wear yourself out digging in the garden. I think you need to go a lot slower.

                            I can understand that things are tough and you feel like you're going backwards. I really started to get scared about all this N=1 stuff when I saw my cholesterol. This is the reality: we're all fiddling around in the dark. We haven't found what works for us. The important thing is not to deviate off course too much. I think it's important that the changes from now on are small so that you dont shock your body any more.

                            Be really, really gentle with yourself. If you have energy, do an hour in the garden - not a day. Do you ever meditate? Do you like music? Hugs! (<----seriously, I should just get that word tattooed on my head. Or at least put it as my avatar )
                            I woke up today feeling so tired again, I looked in the mirror and I have never seen my face look so puffy! I don't know what happened. It made me step on the scale to see that I'm at a new all time high. So, forget the loss I was having, it is all back and then some. I have an enormous amount of work ahead of me in the garden. I really need the energy to be able to work out there right now, on top of homeschooling my children, cleaning the house and cooking for everyone. I don't have the luxury of just checking out for months at a time, which is what I really need. A few days a week is okay as far as my life not falling apart, but I'm feeling like I did at my worst and I'm scared it is going to stay this way. I do push myself too hard when I feel good but it is out of desperation to get things done that desperately need to be done. My house is unbearable to me and I don't have the energy to keep it up, which makes me feel more stress. I have a family with a million food preferences and intolerances and cooking is an impossible task. There is almost nothing that everyone can or will eat at once. I don't need to have the energy to run marathons, but getting through normal daily life without overwhelming fatigue is an absolute necessity. Since I started this my energy has become more erratic, my highs are better but my lows are worse and becoming closer together. I could prevent the super lows by doing absolutely nothing all day everyday but then what? Live like a pig, eat nothing but snacks and leave all sense of living a normal life behind? I've been there already for most of my life, now I had about 9 months of feeling somewhat normal before crashing back into it. This could be temporary, or perhaps I fucked myself over and now I have to dig my way back out of this living grave. Give me a few days rest, I'll probably feel a bit of life coming back. I'm just scared to see glimpses of my past that I never wanted to see again.
                            PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                            • PM, I know you said you've had thyroid testing done in the past and your results were always "ok" or "normal", but SO much of what you are describing, including the puffy face, just screams thyroid/adrenal issues. If I were you, I would have a full thyroid panel (as well adrenal related panels) ASAP. Your results very well may be far different at this point than they were years ago, and to be honest, I'm suspicious that your levels may not have truly been "ok" or normal back when you did have the testing done. We all know how a good majority of CW MDs are ignorant (and totally unmotivated) in regard to issues involving the thyroid. You need to know all of your levels, not just your TSH, and have someone who knows what they are talking about interpret them.

                              I could be way off and may have missed posts in which you discuss having already been down that route with no success, so forgive me if I'm just blowing smoke. I've just been thinking this for some time now while reading your journal. You need to find out what's going on, this just doesn't seem right to me.

                              Do a search on this forum with the words "hypothyroidism", "puffy face", etc. - someone posted pics of a woman that show very clearly the significant difference in her face at different times of her life when thyroid issues ran amok and when they were more "normal". I'd google it as well. I was shocked when I saw it.
                              Last edited by GoJenGo; 04-22-2013, 06:01 AM.
                              Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

                              - Robert Louis Stevenson

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                              • Thanks Jen,

                                I do think I should have things retested. I have been looked at by many reputable alternative MD's and ND's over the years, even those specializing in thyroid/adrenal issues that are undiagnosed with regular MD's. It has been awhile though and deserves another look. I know there is overlap but my history and symptoms put me more in the adrenal camp than thyroid. I have even been treated for thyroid in the past based on symptoms alone (since my test were negative) but it didn't help. My saliva cortisol tests were always very low and treatment has always been slow and expensive. I think I've spent close to 50,000 trying to feel better! The puffy face thing was new today, not a regular symptom. After stepping on the scale I think it is just fat! I'm not eating more either, I barely have the energy to eat the last few days.

                                Part of my hesitation is that I'm so sick of spending money on doctors. All the good ones are out of pocket for me and their supplements/meds can be hundred a month plus a pain in the neck to take. I rarely receive benefit from all of that either. They might tell me what is wrong, but they sure as heck can't make it right. Even those that treat adrenal fatigue rarely know how to help someone at a late stage 3, which is where I was at and where I feel like I'm back to on my bad days. I'm thinking that what I thought of as "almost all better" was really just an early stage 3/ late stage 2, but I was so used to late 3 that it felt amazing to be in that new place. I pushed myself to hard and each time I did that I used up more of my hard earned resources. Now I'm pushing myself further into stage 3 again. My kids are going to be grown and out of the house before I feel like a normal person!

                                For now I'm going to rest, sleep and when I do feel good - and this is the most important thing- I need to remember that I'm NOT better and no matter how good I feel I can only do a little bit of activity each day. No more taking advantage of feeling good to get it all done at once. That is just making me so much worse in the long run. When I improved in the past I always thought sleep was the number one component (after getting rid of heavy metals). All the supplements and hormones did practically nothing.
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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