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  • #31
    If I remember right I was maintaining around 1200. I would lose around 1000 and start gaining quickly around 1400 and sometimes even at 1200. So I am eating way more. I know the point is to be able to eat more in the future but I'm wondering if that can happen a bit slower? Eating say 2000-2200 calories is way more than I was eating and as long as I'm eating to appetite but not panicking that I have to push over 2600 when I'm not stuffed but don't really feel like eating either. I'm hoping this can halt the weight gain and since it is still a pretty reasonable calorie level my temps my continue to rise a bit over time. I'm really getting my energy back since I started rehydrating so I'm going to start putting in several hours a day of hard work in the garden. I'm sure that will raise my appetite from where it is and I'll eat more. NEVER allowing hunger to just pass.
    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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    • #32
      I think anything under 1500 is starvation calories for anyone, including small children. You just can get enough nutrients. Women should easily be able to maintain on 2000-2500 a day, if not then most likely they have hormonal and metabolic disorders.

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      • #33
        I just read an interesting fact, that some autistic people have their symptoms go away when they have a fever and that in general their body temperatures are usually low. My own children have morning temps of 99-99.2 and my eldest was diagnosed autistic but thanks to a good diet and lots of gut healing is essentially symptom free. Did our diet raise her temp and was that possibly half the reason this diet did such wonders for her? Sometimes I do wonder if they eat enough (some days they probably don't hit 1500) but others they will eat 1200 just for breakfast.
        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Zach View Post
          I think anything under 1500 is starvation calories for anyone, including small children. You just can get enough nutrients. Women should easily be able to maintain on 2000-2500 a day, if not then most likely they have hormonal and metabolic disorders.
          Zach~ Where in the world do you come up with this BS?

          I easily maintain at 5'6", 130 lbs at 1600-1700 calories a day and easily drop a few pounds (over a month) with a small deficit. I seem to recall Carrie Sisson's calories averaging between 1700-2000 a day. She has a bit more muscle than me right now!

          No hormonal imbalance or metabolic issues here. Small boned, shorter and/or older women don't need that many calories unless they are highly active, in my experience as a Primal nutrition coach.

          It's easy to get enough nutrients if you have good gut health and make sure to get enough sun/supplement D3 & Magnesium to sufficiency, eat ruminant meat, organ meats, seafood, hard cheese, bone broth and dark leafy greens rounded out with a decent variety of Primal foods.
          Last edited by Dragonfly; 04-02-2013, 06:26 PM.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
            Zach~ Where in the world do you come up with this BS?

            I easily maintain at 5'6", 130 lbs at 1600-1700 calories a day and easily drop a few pounds (over a month) with a small deficit. I seem to recall Carrie Sisson's calories averaging between 1700-2000 a day. She has a bit more muscle than me right now!

            No hormonal imbalance or metabolic issues here. Small boned, shorter and/or older women don't need that many calories unless they are highly active, in my experience as a Primal nutrition coach.

            It's easy to get enough nutrients if you have good gut health and make sure to get enough sun/supplement D3 & Magnesium to sufficiency, eat ruminant meat, organ meats, seafood, hard cheese, bone broth and dark leafy greens rounded out with a decent variety of Primal foods.
            Funny you stated two totals, both over my recommendation of 1500... Whats your point again?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
              If I remember right I was maintaining around 1200. I would lose around 1000 and start gaining quickly around 1400 and sometimes even at 1200. So I am eating way more. I know the point is to be able to eat more in the future but I'm wondering if that can happen a bit slower? Eating say 2000-2200 calories is way more than I was eating and as long as I'm eating to appetite but not panicking that I have to push over 2600 when I'm not stuffed but don't really feel like eating either. I'm hoping this can halt the weight gain and since it is still a pretty reasonable calorie level my temps my continue to rise a bit over time. I'm really getting my energy back since I started rehydrating so I'm going to start putting in several hours a day of hard work in the garden. I'm sure that will raise my appetite from where it is and I'll eat more. NEVER allowing hunger to just pass.
              Wow, that's sounds like hell. Were you always hungry eating that little?

              Is allowing hunger to "just pass" bad?

              Oh btw, yes - I did my yoga teacher training in India! I've spent quite a bit of time there, it's a completely magical place.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Zach View Post
                Yb, i dont think cutting is right for you just yet. Wait until you try the betein and also get some results on your thyroid. I know you hate gaining fat but thats the thing, noone likes it but sometimes its necessary to heal. If you do feel like you absolutely have to lose some fat then do it the smart way. Make a plan and stick to that plan. Dont allow yourself room to go back to your old ways and think of the diet as a temporary fix.
                You're right of course... <sigh>!
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  Funny you stated two totals, both over my recommendation of 1500... Whats your point again?
                  1.My small deficit is about 400-500 calories, which I achieve by IFing. So I lose at 1100-1300 calories. I am in no way "starving".

                  2. Both Carrie & I easily maintain under the 2000 calories you state as the maintenance range for "normal" women.

                  On the Eat More 2 Weigh Less site, they emphasize lifting heavy to increase muscle mass to increase your metabolism. And losing with a small deficit over a long period of time. Good, grounded ideas. They work for me and my clients.

                  Women who try to eat a lot of extra calories to "raise their metabolism" (without also lifting heavy and moving slowly for 1-2 hours daily) are setting themselves up to gain fat. Good idea for former anorexics, but not so great for the rest of us.
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                  • #39
                    Yes i agree that post menopausal women probably do not need as many calories, especially if they are not doing much strenuous exercise. My recommendations of 2000-2500 would be for still growing women and calories would slowly decline past 30~ but this would be true for men as well.

                    I also believe that everyone regardless of age should be engaging in physical activity on a daily basis, this is key to being able to maintain a higher calorie level whih in turn brings in more nutriants.
                    Last edited by Zach; 04-03-2013, 08:44 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      Wow, that's sounds like hell. Were you always hungry eating that little?

                      Is allowing hunger to "just pass" bad?

                      Oh btw, yes - I did my yoga teacher training in India! I've spent quite a bit of time there, it's a completely magical place.
                      I wasn't that hungry because I was so used to it, but I felt very deprived. Having to watch every bite and log it in because it was so easy to go over. Also, having to avoid so many things because it was too hard to work them into the calorie allotment. I would end up binging every so often (usually on just primal food) which would cause me to gain and it wouldn't come back off again. That is how I gain the 10 pounds I was trying to lose when we started this. Primal made me healthier than I've ever been but also much fatter!

                      By allowing hunger to pass, I meant ignoring it and skipping a meal to avoid calories. I don't want to avoid hunger anymore or ignore it and feel righteous about being able to go without.
                      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                      • #41
                        The eatmore2lose sight talks about small deficits after first bring up the metabolism and then never eating below the BMR including energy used for exercise.

                        Eating 1100-1300 to lose is much lower than they recommend.
                        Last edited by PaleoMom; 04-03-2013, 08:48 AM.
                        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                        • #42
                          I'm not postmenopausal! Still regular as a clock at 50.

                          Looking back, I realize that I started lifting when I was 30 and that was why I never put on much extra fat compared to my peers/younger sisters. Good incentive for regaining the muscle mass I have lost in the last 2 years due to not lifting as much.
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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                            I'm not postmenopausal! Still regular as a clock at 50.

                            Looking back, I realize that I started lifting when I was 30 and that was why I never put on much extra fat compared to my peers/younger sisters. Good incentive for regaining the muscle mass I have lost in the last 2 years due to not lifting as much.
                            Muscle memory is a great thing. It should come back much more easily than for a woman your age to try to grow it the first time.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                              I'm not postmenopausal! Still regular as a clock at 50.

                              Looking back, I realize that I started lifting when I was 30 and that was why I never put on much extra fat compared to my peers/younger sisters. Good incentive for regaining the muscle mass I have lost in the last 2 years due to not lifting as much.
                              Excuse me, i couldnt find an age on your site.

                              See we reall are not that far apart. One doing daily exercise in their 20s-30s should be able to eat upwards of 2500 to maintain and that number will decline a bit, 40s maybe 2000, 50s maybe 1700. I just dont think any whether they be 3 or 80 should be eating under 1500 calories.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                                The eatmore2lose sight talks about small deficits after first bring up the metabolism and then never eating below the BMR including energy used for exercise.

                                Eating 1100-1300 to lose is much lower than they recommend.
                                Unfortunately, BMR calculators are not designed to calculate for the specific individual.

                                Trial and error helped me to find out the caloric level that worked for me. By the way, I have never counted calories until I did a 6 week experiment after 6 months of Primal to track what I was actually eating.

                                I'm certain that once I build my muscles back up, I will be eating more calories to maintain.
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