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  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
    Okay, serious question. If this is more protein that you were eating before, and more carbs than you were eating before... then what were you eating before??! Were you getting most of your cals from fat?
    Oh, yes. I don't know what my macros were recently but several years ago when trying to lose on paleo I was 80% fat and only eating 1,000-1,200 calories. I think more recently I was eating maybe 65-75% fat. Lots of butter, whole milk and cheese. I can go through a stick of butter a day.
    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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    • Hey Zach, Derp, YB - if you're "listening" I'd like your thought on my thyroid. I was looking at my book "Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms - When my test results are negative .... and according to that my FT3 and TSH are low. Should I do anything supplement wise about that or is eating Peat enough?

      free T4 1.5 (0.7-2.5)
      free T3 2.6 (2.5-6.5)
      TSH 0.8 (0.5-3.0)
      TPO 27 (0-150)

      The ( ) are the lab ranges not the ranges given in the book.
      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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      • Peat thinks that the lower the TSH the better, so according to him your TSH is great! Low TSH is supposed to indicate that your thyroid is working well. Although, in the context of the rest of your results, it could just mean that it's another hormone that's low. I wouldn't worry about it though.

        Your T3 very low - according to that you're borderline hypo. Derp and Zach would suggest taking Cytomel. I'm not sure what I'd suggest! I think with t3 that low you might want to consider it...
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

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        • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
          Peat thinks that the lower the TSH the better, so according to him your TSH is great! Low TSH is supposed to indicate that your thyroid is working well. Although, in the context of the rest of your results, it could just mean that it's another hormone that's low. I wouldn't worry about it though.

          Your T3 very low - according to that you're borderline hypo. Derp and Zach would suggest taking Cytomel. I'm not sure what I'd suggest! I think with t3 that low you might want to consider it...
          Interesting. I remember about 10 years ago all my thyroid tests were normal but my TSH was extremely high, the doctor was quite shocked.
          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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          • I just realised something. The pituitary gland regulates the production of sex hormones:
            DHEA, progesterone, testosterone, oestrogen. Yours are all low... And your TSH is low. I mean, according to Peat it's a good number, but with all your other results it's interesting, isn't it?

            Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
            Interesting. I remember about 10 years ago all my thyroid tests were normal but my TSH was extremely high, the doctor was quite shocked.
            What was your TSH then and what did your doc do? Also, what were your female sex hormone results at that time?
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

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            • Hi Paleomom, Hi Yogabare!

              Paleomom, You need to be on T3 or NDT. Will your doctor prescribe it to you? If not, find a new doctor. My T3 levels have been as low as 1.3 with ranges same as yours. T4 only did nothing for me. NDT brought it up and now I'm taking cynomel only while I work out some other issues.

              Looking at your test results it looks like you are only having conversions issues though. How's your liver? Could also be adrenal related.

              The book you are reading is mostly geared toward autoimmune thyroid disorders I believe. Thankfully your antibodies look great.

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              • Yea i second the t3.

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                • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  I just realised something. The pituitary gland regulates the production of sex hormones:
                  DHEA, progesterone, testosterone, oestrogen. Yours are all low... And your TSH is low. I mean, according to Peat it's a good number, but with all your other results it's interesting, isn't it?
                  Haha, those aren't related at all. In the anterior lobe, there are 6 secretory cells. TSH is only responsible for signaling thyroid to create more t4. In the case of sluggish thyroid, whatever the case may be, the pituitary makes more TSH in a desperate attempt to stimulate more thyroid production. It's a feedback loop, hence why TSH is low when more thyroid is being produced.
                  Make America Great Again

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                  • Thanks for all the help everyone

                    Would an over the counter natural thyroid glandular work then? I don't think my Dr. thinks I need it, which makes him sound bad, but I'm so happy with him in every other regard I'm not really wanting to go shopping again, if you know what I mean.

                    YB, I don't have those old results but I remember that everything was normal (and this was a Dr. that was really into treating borderline disorders) except the TSH was super high, like 700 but that was on a different type of test. I believe it might have been a saliva test, so the numbers are different than these other ones.

                    I just got back from my Dr. and he put me on Rhodiola now, too.
                    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                    • Originally posted by brooke.S. View Post
                      Hi Paleomom, Hi Yogabare!

                      Paleomom, You need to be on T3 or NDT. Will your doctor prescribe it to you? If not, find a new doctor. My T3 levels have been as low as 1.3 with ranges same as yours. T4 only did nothing for me. NDT brought it up and now I'm taking cynomel only while I work out some other issues.

                      Looking at your test results it looks like you are only having conversions issues though. How's your liver? Could also be adrenal related.

                      The book you are reading is mostly geared toward autoimmune thyroid disorders I believe. Thankfully your antibodies look great.
                      I am still healing from adrenal fatigue. I think my liver is good but in the past it TCM practioners always said I had a sluggish liver (I don't any more though). I also take 3 oz. of raw liver a week to aid in healing and general health.
                      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                      • I would get on cynomel, personally. Failing that, desiccated thyroid would be ok too.
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                          I am still healing from adrenal fatigue. I think my liver is good but in the past it TCM practioners always said I had a sluggish liver (I don't any more though). I also take 3 oz. of raw liver a week to aid in healing and general health.
                          By adrenal fatigue, do you mean high cortisol? The adaptogen herbs are only good for lowering cortisol and can do harm if you already have low cortisol. Did any of your practitioners have you take a salvia cortisol test?

                          T3 or any thyroid meds don't work very well if one has adrenal fatigue. But T3 would be best over any containing T4 or the over the counter raw thyroid sups.

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                          • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            I would get on cynomel, personally. Failing that, desiccated thyroid would be ok too.
                            Is the prescription only then? What does it have to be so hard to find a Dr. that reads test results properly????

                            Originally posted by brooke.S. View Post
                            By adrenal fatigue, do you mean high cortisol? The adaptogen herbs are only good for lowering cortisol and can do harm if you already have low cortisol. Did any of your practitioners have you take a salvia cortisol test?

                            T3 or any thyroid meds don't work very well if one has adrenal fatigue. But T3 would be best over any containing T4 or the over the counter raw thyroid sups.

                            Interesting about the adaptogen herbs. I took the rhodiola and was super dizzy and went into a hard sleep for several hours. Same thing happened a few weeks ago (minus the dizzy) when I took an adrenal support that included ashwaghanda.

                            I have taken the saliva cortisol test 3 maybe 4 times now. The first time (about 16 years ago) I was only a 1 in the morning and then slowly got closer to the low end of the range but never actually reaching the low end. The next one was slightly better and this last one I was high in the am (7.1), then 1.6 @ noon, 0.9 @evening and 0.3 at night. Funny back in the beginning that Dr. had me on ashwaganda too but it made me feel better back then.

                            I'm certainly addressing the adrenal fatigue as #1 importance but hoping that support the other things also will help heal faster overall. I've been battling this for a really long time!
                            PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                            • Mymexicandrugstore.com

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                              • I found this which in helpful...

                                Through my own research and trial and error, and consulting with many TCM practitioners.. and TCM myself.. i have come to learn that low cortisol individuals and the usual "adrenal support" herbs like siberian ginseng, panax ginseng, schizandra, etc. do not go together. They are announced as "adaptogenic" which is true, but only for high cortisol or fluctuating cortisol levels. If you are all out low, these herbs act to lower serum cortisol even more or suppress the much need cortisol by your body and gives you "fake" energy or what the chinese would say, "excess yang, using up the kidney yin reserves". basically, you have no substance in your kidneys and yet are lighting the fire even more. I know this from my experience and not just my experience but ive had 5 different people try the same herbs and the outcome for me, was exceptionally different.

                                It is stated and believed by many that by definition, adaptogenics are called "adaptogenics" for the very reason, that they adapt. They raise or lower cortisol due to the body's needs. This is true. HOWEVER, that is only true if the body is in balance. It can be assumed that most people who have had AF progress to low cortisol throughout the day, is severely out of balance. As described previously by many posts, the adrenal glands are GLANDS, and like muscles, they work and need to be stimulated. but also like muscles, they can be fatigued if they are overworked. And like every thing in the body, overworking without rest and nutrition causes fatigue. And that is exactly what adrenal fatigue is. the glands are TIRED from overexertion. To recover and able this gland (or muscle) to recover, and function properly.. a) proper nutriton must be given. Vitamins and minerals. b) rest must be given. that is sleep but also. rest in the form of less stress and lessening of the load handled by the adrenals. The METHOD of how to give the adrenals rest, can be debated. Glandulars are a controversial subject that works for some and not for others. Cortex or ACE with or without hormones.

                                this is where Tradition Chinese Medicine comes in. The adaptogenic herbs that TCM uses are marketed out of context many times. Schizandra, siberian ginseng, ginseng, rhodiola, ashwagandha.. all these herbs have shown to help lower cortisol, either by stimulating the brain to change the amount of ACTH to signal the adrenals to be less reactive to stress. This is great.. however people with low cortisol or Addisons NEED cortisol. Stopping adrenal production of cortisol or raising it momentarily is stimulatory for the adrenals. It is like, once again, overworking a fatigue muscle.

                                It appears that single herbs are NOT used very successfully for the treatment of AF. For me personally, the use of single herbs definitely makes me feel SOMETHING but as it turned out, giving someone with low cortisol and low reserves something to raise YANG energy in the kidneys results in using up the YIN (which is lacking with AF). rebuilding the YIN should be the primary treatment as the chinese say there can never be too much YIN. Rehmannia Six is apparently a good formula for this and it takes about 3 months to slowly nourish the body. herbs are used for nourishment and not for a quick fix.
                                Low cortisol and adaptogenic herbs are NOT a match at Adrenal Fatigue Support Forum, message 1523181
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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