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  • PM, I spent years living the life you describe here:
    Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
    I woke up today feeling so tired again, I looked in the mirror and I have never seen my face look so puffy! I don't know what happened. It made me step on the scale to see that I'm at a new all time high. So, forget the loss I was having, it is all back and then some. I have an enormous amount of work ahead of me in the garden. I really need the energy to be able to work out there right now, on top of homeschooling my children, cleaning the house and cooking for everyone. I don't have the luxury of just checking out for months at a time, which is what I really need. A few days a week is okay as far as my life not falling apart, but I'm feeling like I did at my worst and I'm scared it is going to stay this way. I do push myself too hard when I feel good but it is out of desperation to get things done that desperately need to be done. My house is unbearable to me and I don't have the energy to keep it up, which makes me feel more stress. I have a family with a million food preferences and intolerances and cooking is an impossible task. There is almost nothing that everyone can or will eat at once. I don't need to have the energy to run marathons, but getting through normal daily life without overwhelming fatigue is an absolute necessity. Since I started this my energy has become more erratic, my highs are better but my lows are worse and becoming closer together. I could prevent the super lows by doing absolutely nothing all day everyday but then what? Live like a pig, eat nothing but snacks and leave all sense of living a normal life behind? I've been there already for most of my life, now I had about 9 months of feeling somewhat normal before crashing back into it. This could be temporary, or perhaps I fucked myself over and now I have to dig my way back out of this living grave. Give me a few days rest, I'll probably feel a bit of life coming back. I'm just scared to see glimpses of my past that I never wanted to see again.
    For me it was under treated thyroid disease complicated by undetectable levels of estradiol (estrogen). Even when the estradiol was dealt with, the thyroid mess continued.

    Please get a full thyroid panel run--TSH, freeT4, freeT3, antibodies (TPO, TgAb). Also consider a female sex hormone panel, along with vitamin D and ferritin.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
      I woke up today feeling so tired again, I looked in the mirror and I have never seen my face look so puffy! I don't know what happened. It made me step on the scale to see that I'm at a new all time high. So, forget the loss I was having, it is all back and then some. I have an enormous amount of work ahead of me in the garden. I really need the energy to be able to work out there right now, on top of homeschooling my children, cleaning the house and cooking for everyone. I don't have the luxury of just checking out for months at a time, which is what I really need. A few days a week is okay as far as my life not falling apart, but I'm feeling like I did at my worst and I'm scared it is going to stay this way. I do push myself too hard when I feel good but it is out of desperation to get things done that desperately need to be done. My house is unbearable to me and I don't have the energy to keep it up, which makes me feel more stress. I have a family with a million food preferences and intolerances and cooking is an impossible task. There is almost nothing that everyone can or will eat at once. I don't need to have the energy to run marathons, but getting through normal daily life without overwhelming fatigue is an absolute necessity. Since I started this my energy has become more erratic, my highs are better but my lows are worse and becoming closer together. I could prevent the super lows by doing absolutely nothing all day everyday but then what? Live like a pig, eat nothing but snacks and leave all sense of living a normal life behind? I've been there already for most of my life, now I had about 9 months of feeling somewhat normal before crashing back into it. This could be temporary, or perhaps I fucked myself over and now I have to dig my way back out of this living grave. Give me a few days rest, I'll probably feel a bit of life coming back. I'm just scared to see glimpses of my past that I never wanted to see again.
      PM, Can you get some help for a few weeks? Maybe a neighbourhood kid who could help you with the garden? And maybe you could focus on a smaller part of the garden this year - not have the full shabang? Would be less work and at least you'd still yield something. Do you have family that live nearby, or a friend who might help you with some cooking? You could have an afternoon where you make a bunch of meals that can be frozen? Thai curry, bolognese, stews are all easy to cook and freeze really well. I also have the feeling that you need to eat a lot of hot, nourishing food.

      What could be happening here is that your adrenals are actually healing. Probably you've been keeping your temp p for all these years with adrenaline, and now that you're keeping warm, your adrenals can ease off a bit. I can't see how keeping warm could be hurting us. BUT - if it's any consolation: I gained more weight as well! It sounds like water retention in your case, but there is also that keeping warm might be lowering our metabolisms. However, it should also be promoting fat loss. Just be patient and wait it out for another few weeks.

      It's really hard to cope on bad days - I know. My skin looks terrible right now: I got a cycstic acne outbreak and it's so dry and crepey everywhere else. But logically, we can't be hurting ourselves from feeding ourselves and keeping warm. Really! We don't have the answers and we're in uncharted terrain but we can't turn back now. People who make new discoveries always feel like this - like they're crazy / it's a waste of time. Things don't go smoothly from the start.

      Think of yourself as the discoverer of a new paradigm of health for yourself.

      Now if only I could take my own advice....
      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

      - Ray Peat

      Comment


      • "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
          PM, I spent years living the life you describe here:

          For me it was under treated thyroid disease complicated by undetectable levels of estradiol (estrogen). Even when the estradiol was dealt with, the thyroid mess continued.

          Please get a full thyroid panel run--TSH, freeT4, freeT3, antibodies (TPO, TgAb). Also consider a female sex hormone panel, along with vitamin D and ferritin.
          Thank you I'm thinking of doing this. I do wonder what to do with the information though. It seems most of the time that going on hormone medications weaken the glands and dependency happens. Isn't it better to heal slowly with lifestyle/food changes? and if so what is the point of testing? I do take vitamin D already and sunshine when I have it, lots of beef. Please argue with me if I'm wrong. I just know that with adrenals, taking even the gentle supporting herbs can be harmful to those with advanced stages and it is best to just rest, sleep, eat a healthy diet and wait it out. The thyroid won't truly heal without the adrenals being in good shape first and once the adrenals are good, the thyroid would probably follow. I don't know....
          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

          Comment


          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            Ha, that is awesome
            PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
              The thyroid won't truly heal without the adrenals being in good shape first and once the adrenals are good, the thyroid would probably follow. I don't know....
              Some people would say it's the opposite. The thyroid is one of the most important glands in the body: if it's working well it takes the pressure of the other glands.

              From what I've read recently, the adrenals often suffer as a consequence of the thyroid being out of whack.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

              Comment


              • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                PM, Can you get some help for a few weeks? Maybe a neighbourhood kid who could help you with the garden? And maybe you could focus on a smaller part of the garden this year - not have the full shabang? Would be less work and at least you'd still yield something. Do you have family that live nearby, or a friend who might help you with some cooking? You could have an afternoon where you make a bunch of meals that can be frozen? Thai curry, bolognese, stews are all easy to cook and freeze really well. I also have the feeling that you need to eat a lot of hot, nourishing food.

                What could be happening here is that your adrenals are actually healing. Probably you've been keeping your temp p for all these years with adrenaline, and now that you're keeping warm, your adrenals can ease off a bit. I can't see how keeping warm could be hurting us. BUT - if it's any consolation: I gained more weight as well! It sounds like water retention in your case, but there is also that keeping warm might be lowering our metabolisms. However, it should also be promoting fat loss. Just be patient and wait it out for another few weeks.

                It's really hard to cope on bad days - I know. My skin looks terrible right now: I got a cycstic acne outbreak and it's so dry and crepey everywhere else. But logically, we can't be hurting ourselves from feeding ourselves and keeping warm. Really! We don't have the answers and we're in uncharted terrain but we can't turn back now. People who make new discoveries always feel like this - like they're crazy / it's a waste of time. Things don't go smoothly from the start.

                Think of yourself as the discoverer of a new paradigm of health for yourself.

                Now if only I could take my own advice....
                Well, we did decide to rent a bobcat to move the dirt around. This should reduce my work load 95%. That will help

                I'm really questioning if it was a good idea to try and up body temp. with heat. I think that really took things to a new level. Raising temp with food made the body warmer because it was able to be that way naturally. With heat it forced something the body wasn't ready for and that's when the hard core adrenal crashes came. I can't see preventing it either without living in a sauna or something. My temp just came down too fast, so there was no time to do things that didn't include a hot shower or heat pack ALL DAY. I get so foggy brained I can't think about reasons sometimes, but at the moment I'm feeling better and remembering how I was dehydrated which caused fatigue and then started feeling better from that when we started the heat thing. That is when it all reversed in a big way. Steve was right about the adrenal crashes, I don't think I should have gone down that path. My morning temp was already almost perfect and my daytime temp probably would have followed by this time next month all on its own.

                Speaking acne, mine came back when first starting Steve's protcol. It is healing now, but I thought that was interesting. I had with when first trying to eat more too.

                I slept 12 hours last night, plus the majority of the day yesterday. I'm feeling pretty good so far. It is a nice sunny day and should be all week I'm hoping to get some good sun exposure in. Maybe so gentle walks.

                I'd like more help but it is just not a possibility right now for several reasons. I think I'll manage as long as I don't forget to keep reminding myself that I can't push myself ever. Always use less energy than I feel like I have.
                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                  Steve was right about the adrenal crashes,
                  What do you mean???
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    What do you mean???
                    Just that they do happen and it can be dangerous as far as damaging the adrenals.

                    I was thinking that it actually feels like the opposite of what he is saying. Like my adrenals are more bothered by being hot and are working hard to cool my body down or deal with the stress of being hot than they are bothered by getting cool and trying to warm up. When I'm at a comfy temp I feel good, but according to him I'm stressing my adrenals at those times because it wants to heat me up to a higher body temp. When I'm hot because of trying to keep my body temp up I feel tired and overworked and a crash is likely at any time.
                    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                      Thank you I'm thinking of doing this. I do wonder what to do with the information though. It seems most of the time that going on hormone medications weaken the glands and dependency happens. Isn't it better to heal slowly with lifestyle/food changes? and if so what is the point of testing? I do take vitamin D already and sunshine when I have it, lots of beef. Please argue with me if I'm wrong. I just know that with adrenals, taking even the gentle supporting herbs can be harmful to those with advanced stages and it is best to just rest, sleep, eat a healthy diet and wait it out. The thyroid won't truly heal without the adrenals being in good shape first and once the adrenals are good, the thyroid would probably follow. I don't know....
                      I believe knowledge is power. Knowing where you stand, hormonally is just the first step. From there, choices need to be made-again based on knowledge.

                      If your results show a slow down, but normal hormone levels, then lifestyle changes may be enough to bring about healing. However, if the results show disease level hormones, such as primary or secondary (pituitary issues) hypothyroidism, then medical intervention with replacement hormones(not supplements) may be necessary. And that includes dealing with advanced stages of adrenal issues.

                      Case in point--type 2 diabetes. Many cases can be dealt with diet and lifestyle changes. However for some people those changes are not enough and, to prevent more harm, oral meds like metformin are needed. And then in some cases, where the diabetes is long standing and not well controlled, insulin is required.

                      You say you take Vitamin D, but have you had it tested? I was living in sunny S CA walking everyday and tending to a large yard and was still severely Vitamin D deficient. Low ferritin, also causes severe fatigue.

                      I still suggest getting tested. At the very least you'll know where you stand.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                        Just that they do happen and it can be dangerous as far as damaging the adrenals.

                        I was thinking that it actually feels like the opposite of what he is saying. Like my adrenals are more bothered by being hot and are working hard to cool my body down or deal with the stress of being hot than they are bothered by getting cool and trying to warm up. When I'm at a comfy temp I feel good, but according to him I'm stressing my adrenals at those times because it wants to heat me up to a higher body temp. When I'm hot because of trying to keep my body temp up I feel tired and overworked and a crash is likely at any time.
                        PM, how hot are you making yourself? Are you heating yourself up to sweating-point every day? Cos after the initial reset day, you shouldn't be doing that. The ideal is getting your temp up to 98.86 and staying there for as long as possible.

                        I'm doing it basically by taking hot showers and wearing tons of extra clothes. Like, tons. I can't always get to / stay at at 98.86, but I'm not stressing about it. If I feel myself starting to get cold I'll pull on more blankets / scarves / hats. Steve says you should be just a little more than comfortably warm, but I'm aiming for cosy. (I have some doubts about the protocol, which is why I'm not aiming for uncomfortably warm.)

                        Also, I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the adrenals are not responsible for cooling the body down...?
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
                          I believe knowledge is power. Knowing where you stand, hormonally is just the first step. From there, choices need to be made-again based on knowledge.

                          If your results show a slow down, but normal hormone levels, then lifestyle changes may be enough to bring about healing. However, if the results show disease level hormones, such as primary or secondary (pituitary issues) hypothyroidism, then medical intervention with replacement hormones(not supplements) may be necessary. And that includes dealing with advanced stages of adrenal issues.

                          Case in point--type 2 diabetes. Many cases can be dealt with diet and lifestyle changes. However for some people those changes are not enough and, to prevent more harm, oral meds like metformin are needed. And then in some cases, where the diabetes is long standing and not well controlled, insulin is required.

                          You say you take Vitamin D, but have you had it tested? I was living in sunny S CA walking everyday and tending to a large yard and was still severely Vitamin D deficient. Low ferritin, also causes severe fatigue.

                          I still suggest getting tested. At the very least you'll know where you stand.
                          My concern is: Does anyone ever come OFF of thyroid meds once they start? I do want to at least know more of what I'm dealing with. I'll see about getting some tests done.

                          My vitamin D was tested after supplementing with 4,000 iu. It was getting a bit high and so it was lowered to 2,000iu. I haven't had it tested since then, so it would be good to do it again. I've had low ferritin in the past, but newer tests were fine. Always good to check.
                          Last edited by PaleoMom; 04-22-2013, 01:49 PM.
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            PM, how hot are you making yourself? Are you heating yourself up to sweating-point every day? Cos after the initial reset day, you shouldn't be doing that. The ideal is getting your temp up to 98.86 and staying there for as long as possible.

                            I'm doing it basically by taking hot showers and wearing tons of extra clothes. Like, tons. I can't always get to / stay at at 98.86, but I'm not stressing about it. If I feel myself starting to get cold I'll pull on more blankets / scarves / hats. Steve says you should be just a little more than comfortably warm, but I'm aiming for cosy. (I have some doubts about the protocol, which is why I'm not aiming for uncomfortably warm.)

                            Also, I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the adrenals are not responsible for cooling the body down...?
                            I didn't mean to say I thought the adrenals were responsible for cooling the body down, just that if FELT more like that than what Steve is saying. I just feel bad when I'm so warm.

                            Perhaps I'm over doing it then? I have been dressing warm after a shower and then taking my temp throughout the day. If it is low then I'll get out the rice pack and cuddle in bed with it, dressing warmly afterwards. I don't need much to feel overlywarm though. A sweater and socks will do it. If I take them off my body temp cools down, but with them I'm too hot. I suppose the problem is that I'm comfy dressing at a level that doesn't keep my body temp up. I feel warm and just right even when my temp is dropping. I think the best thing for me is to start off with a hot shower, but let that be the end of worrying about it, no over dressing or even taking my temp. The rest needs to just come with time from eating proper amounts.
                            PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              I didn't mean to say I thought the adrenals were responsible for cooling the body down, just that if FELT more like that than what Steve is saying. I just feel bad when I'm so warm.

                              Perhaps I'm over doing it then? I have been dressing warm after a shower and then taking my temp throughout the day. If it is low then I'll get out the rice pack and cuddle in bed with it, dressing warmly afterwards. I don't need much to feel overlywarm though. A sweater and socks will do it. If I take them off my body temp cools down, but with them I'm too hot. I suppose the problem is that I'm comfy dressing at a level that doesn't keep my body temp up. I feel warm and just right even when my temp is dropping. I think the best thing for me is to start off with a hot shower, but let that be the end of worrying about it, no over dressing or even taking my temp. The rest needs to just come with time from eating proper amounts.
                              So are you getting hot flushes when you dress warmly? What are your temps throughout the day?

                              I'll tell you what's happening with me: the warmer I dress, the colder I'm get. Steve said its because my adrenals have been ramping up my metabolism for so long to keep me warm, and now that the pressure is being taken off them, they are relaxing. Normally when I go out I always get hot flushes, but I've been keeping warm and they havent been happening. But as soon as I take off some clothes, I get hot. It's totally backward but it's to do with the body suddenly dropping to a lower set point which makes you feel uncomfortably hot. Does that sound like what's happening to you?

                              Dressing warmly seems to be a really important aspect of all this. Maybe youre not giving your adrenals the chance to actually heal if you're being really warm and then not wrapping up enough?
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                So are you getting hot flushes when you dress warmly? What are your temps throughout the day?

                                I'll tell you what's happening with me: the warmer I dress, the colder I'm get. Steve said its because my adrenals have been ramping up my metabolism for so long to keep me warm, and now that the pressure is being taken off them, they are relaxing. Normally when I go out I always get hot flushes, but I've been keeping warm and they havent been happening. But as soon as I take off some clothes, I get hot. It's totally backward but it's to do with the body suddenly dropping to a lower set point which makes you feel uncomfortably hot. Does that sound like what's happening to you?

                                Dressing warmly seems to be a really important aspect of all this. Maybe youre not giving your adrenals the chance to actually heal if you're being really warm and then not wrapping up enough?
                                What you describe sounds very different. I'm not having hot flushes, I'm just hot. Like I'm dressed too warm in a warm room, which I am When I take off a layer I feel all better. I don't get hotter or feel cold, I feel just right. When I try and keep warmly dressed to keep my body temp up I eventually seem to crash energetically. Allowing myself to cool off a bit though, does make me feel better. When I talk about my temp going down it is usually only to about 98. Only a few times did it dip down below that and when it did it came back up pretty quick.

                                I got out in the sun today for a few hours. It is only about 50 degrees, but sunny and it still felt good. I did some really light weeding and left it at that.
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                                Comment

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