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  • I also used to have social anxiety, cuz I thought I was awkward at interacting and communicating with people. I suppose I still have some awkwardness to my demeanor, the difference is that I don't much care anymore. Hence no more anxiety. LOL

    Sorry you had one, but that was a great coping mechanism for your panic attack.
    I used to like swinging a lot as a kid. Now it makes me heave

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    • I've had crippling panic attacks out of the blue for no reason whatsoever. What helps is: racetams, nicotine, caffeine, prenenolone, antibiotics(Peat believes they are caused by some sort of allergic reaction), and breathing in a brown bag. You usually waste a lot of co2 via panic attacks, and or, have already wasted it, which would in turn cause adrenaline spikes.

      I haven't had an actual panic attack since starting this extensive regimen though, so, it must work. Whenever I felt one might be coming on I would just breathe into a brown bag.
      Make America Great Again

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      • Truer words, McD2onald, truer words...

        I'm sorry to hear about your panic attacks and I'm surprised you were able to start running despite them... I had them almost every night for the year I was around 10 yrs-old and it felt like I couldn't breathe and like I was quite literally dying so I can't imagine running. I second breathing into a paper bag - that would help me tremendously when I started to hyperventilate.

        What do you think is the underlying cause?
        Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

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        • Originally posted by ombat View Post
          I'm sorry to hear about your panic attacks and I'm surprised you were able to start running despite them... I had them almost every night for the year I was around 10 yrs-old and it felt like I couldn't breathe and like I was quite literally dying so I can't imagine running. I second breathing into a paper bag - that would help me tremendously when I started to hyperventilate.
          I'm sorry to hear that you went through this so much! Good that it's over now though.

          Many people associate panic attacks only with hyperventilation, but that's not how I get affected. I do have difficulty breathing, but my dominant symptoms are that my heart starts pounding violently, I start shaking, get cold sweats, and I feel dissociated from reality. Everything becomes surreal: the world turns into a dream with nightmarish qualities. Then there's the feeling of rising panic: not that I'm going to die, but that something terrible is going to happen.

          Usually I cope by lying on my bed until it passes. When it's less severe I will binge and that alleviates a lot of the stress. Yesterday I ran like a mad woman. It's pretty funny when I think about it now

          What do you think is the underlying cause?
          I had to laugh when I read this: I guess people skim over each others entries

          Stress hormone spike.


          Originally posted by brooke.S. View Post
          I would never picture you to be a loner! I would imagine you to be very out going and the life of the party!

          It shows how far you've come that you ran to exercise instead if running to get a steak!
          Thank you

          Yeah, weirdly I am very gregarious and light-hearted, and most people who meet me have no idea of how dark I can be. I like people, but the problem is that I'm on such a different wave length to most of the ones in my life. When I'm around people I can communicate with, I'm super socialable, but when connections and conversations are too superficial, I shut down, or just avoid interacting.

          Originally posted by Graycat View Post
          I also used to have social anxiety, cuz I thought I was awkward at interacting and communicating with people. I suppose I still have some awkwardness to my demeanor, the difference is that I don't much care anymore. Hence no more anxiety. LOL

          Sorry you had one, but that was a great coping mechanism for your panic attack.
          I used to like swinging a lot as a kid. Now it makes me heave
          Ha - that's a good approach I realised that people were more afraid of me than I was of them! It's quite liberating. Just sometimes I get a blast of agoraphobia, and it all comes back, but it's now only towards men who serve me in shops... Weird, I know.

          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
          I've had crippling panic attacks out of the blue for no reason whatsoever. What helps is: racetams, nicotine, caffeine, prenenolone, antibiotics(Peat believes they are caused by some sort of allergic reaction), and breathing in a brown bag. You usually waste a lot of co2 via panic attacks, and or, have already wasted it, which would in turn cause adrenaline spikes.

          I haven't had an actual panic attack since starting this extensive regimen though, so, it must work. Whenever I felt one might be coming on I would just breathe into a brown bag.
          I'm sorry that you've gone through this too! Caffeine definitely doesn't help me though: a few times I had an attack after drinking a strong coffee.

          I think since tailoring my diet more towards Ray Peat, I've become more conscious of how I'm feeling, so it becomes easier to dissociate, or find some way to feel better instead of slipping into subconscious behaviours.
          Last edited by YogaBare; 07-19-2013, 06:03 AM.
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

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          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            I nearly bought it, and then something stopped me. I'm seriously sooo sick of taking supplements. It's not me!

            Well, as you know, I feel your pain about the weight. i hope the Cynomel helps! Can I ask: what's your weight loss story been? Like, what weight did you start at, what did you get to (through exercise) and how much have you regained?
            Yeah, I totally understand not wanting to buy more supplements! I want to buy some Eleuthero (Siberian ginseng), but at the same time I don't want to cuz it's just going to be another f-ing supplement.

            Well, my weight fluctuated a lot in my late teens/early twenties, but there were a couple of years there when I didn't really care that much about my weight and didn't own a scale. I only knew if I gained or lost through how my clothes fit, but we'll skip over that time period. (If we ever meet in real life, I'll bore you to death with what I was doing back then.)

            When I first moved to Philly 7 years ago (gah, every time I think about that I cringe), I weighed 142. I think 142 is probably the heaviest I've ever been. Then I lost 17 pounds through exercise (running) alone. Got down to 125. I was able to stay around 125 for a couple years. Then maybe a year and a half ago, I gained some weight and went to 130-132. I went primal and got back down to 126. Then I went to Chicago for four days for a college buddy's wedding--this was last June, and we gorged ourselves the entire time (literally, our days revolved around eating and drinking). I gained a bunch of weight, and then primal stopped working for me. I couldn't lose the weight again. Hovered around 130-132 until last September, when I gained more weight and went up to 138. And then started the VLC, cyclic ketogenic diet, but couldn't lose anything except water weight. Well, maybe I did lose one pound because I was 137 when I started EAT. Gained about one pound during 3 or 4 months of not dieting. Started Crossfit, weight went up to 142. Started JUDDD, weight went back down to 137. Now stuck at 137. *Sigh*

            Anyway, I was pretty happy with myself at 125, but my standards are not like yours. Remember I'm only 5'4", and you can add 5 pounds for every inch of height so me at 125 is like you at 145 (you're 5'8", right). I always wanted to be 120, but I never tried very hard to get lower than 125. So now my goal is to get back down to 125. 120 would be spectacular but pretty unlikely, I think.



            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            I realised that people were more afraid of me than I was of them!
            Haha! I realized that too at one point cuz people I later became friends with sometimes tell me that they thought I was scary when they first met me! I guess it's cuz I'm not super chatty or friendly with strangers so I seem stand-offish, and I almost never smile so I guess I look scary because of that? But I'm never mean to strangers. Anyway, this makes it pretty hard for me to make friends because I guess people think I'm scary so they're scared to talk to me and I don't really know what to say to them so...

            My journal

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            • This is kinda relevant to what we were talking about. Exercise Can Be a Key Anti-Anxiety Treatment

              Exercise definitely cured my depression. It really works like a mood stabilizer for me.

              My journal

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              • Originally posted by diene View Post
                Yeah, I totally understand not wanting to buy more supplements! I want to buy some Eleuthero (Siberian ginseng), but at the same time I don't want to cuz it's just going to be another f-ing supplement.

                When I first moved to Philly 7 years ago (gah, every time I think about that I cringe), I weighed 142. I think 142 is probably the heaviest I've ever been. Then I lost 17 pounds through exercise (running) alone. Got down to 125. I was able to stay around 125 for a couple years. Then maybe a year and a half ago, I gained some weight and went to 130-132. I went primal and got back down to 126. Then I went to Chicago for four days for a college buddy's wedding--this was last June, and we gorged ourselves the entire time (literally, our days revolved around eating and drinking). I gained a bunch of weight, and then primal stopped working for me. I couldn't lose the weight again. Hovered around 130-132 until last September, when I gained more weight and went up to 138. And then started the VLC, cyclic ketogenic diet, but couldn't lose anything except water weight. Well, maybe I did lose one pound because I was 137 when I started EAT. Gained about one pound during 3 or 4 months of not dieting. Started Crossfit, weight went up to 142. Started JUDDD, weight went back down to 137. Now stuck at 137. *Sigh*
                To be fair, I only take Vit D3, Brewer's yeast, progesterone cream, and vitex. *only* I just hate the idea of taking things that are not actually helping my body to heal, but are just giving it artificial aid, if you know what I mean. But still, I probably will buy the rhodiola, because I'm pretty sure now I'm going to do a "cut", and I know I won't be able to sleep during it.

                Well, it sounds like you've had quite a battle with your weight. God, I'm sick of it. Wouldn't it be great if we could just accept that we are all different? Until then, I'm going to keep trying new things The only thing that seems to make me lose weight is starving myself. 1,500cals and 3k cals make very little difference to my weight.

                How long did it take you to lose weight through running? I'm hoping I might see some results from exercise, since I've only been doing it for a month, really.


                Originally posted by diene View Post
                This is kinda relevant to what we were talking about. Exercise Can Be a Key Anti-Anxiety Treatment

                Exercise definitely cured my depression. It really works like a mood stabilizer for me.
                It's weird, but I could never do anything other than yoga for a sustained period. Exercise generally made me feel worse, til I started taking Vitex. So weird... Now I definitely crave it, and I feel myself wanting to work out more and more each day!

                Haha! I realized that too at one point cuz people I later became friends with sometimes tell me that they thought I was scary when they first met me! I guess it's cuz I'm not super chatty or friendly with strangers so I seem stand-offish, and I almost never smile so I guess I look scary because of that? But I'm never mean to strangers. Anyway, this makes it pretty hard for me to make friends because I guess people think I'm scary so they're scared to talk to me and I don't really know what to say to them so...
                One of my friends is like that. She's now making a conscious effort to smile more
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • The weight came off in chunks. So I think I lost the first five pretty quickly, then stalled for a while, lost another 4, stalled, lost a few more, etc. All together though, the whole 17 pounds probably took a year. The first 10 pounds came off in 4-6 months--can't remember exactly. But it's 4-6 months after I started running. When I first started working out, I was so out-of-shape that I could only workout on the elliptical, and I did NOT lose any weight on the elliptical. Did not start losing until I started running.

                  The last five pounds took the longest, but they came off in a swoosh.

                  Losing weight from exercise takes time. It's unlike dieting, which (if it works at all) starts working immediately. BUT, in my experience, once you lose the weight, it's waaay easier to keep it off. I remember how surprised I was when, after a 2-week vacation back home during which I didn't exercise at all (back then I wasn't nearly as obsessed so I could take 2-week breaks), I had only gained 1-2 pounds (this was after I had lost 10).

                  My journal

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                  • Originally posted by diene View Post
                    The weight came off in chunks. So I think I lost the first five pretty quickly, then stalled for a while, lost another 4, stalled, lost a few more, etc. All together though, the whole 17 pounds probably took a year. The first 10 pounds came off in 4-6 months--can't remember exactly. But it's 4-6 months after I started running. When I first started working out, I was so out-of-shape that I could only workout on the elliptical, and I did NOT lose any weight on the elliptical. Did not start losing until I started running.

                    The last five pounds took the longest, but they came off in a swoosh.

                    Losing weight from exercise takes time. It's unlike dieting, which (if it works at all) starts working immediately. BUT, in my experience, once you lose the weight, it's waaay easier to keep it off. I remember how surprised I was when, after a 2-week vacation back home during which I didn't exercise at all (back then I wasn't nearly as obsessed so I could take 2-week breaks), I had only gained 1-2 pounds (this was after I had lost 10).
                    Okay, that's actually a relief to know! I'm getting impatient that nothing seems to be happening. I'm actually going to put a post on the fitness forum asking advice about my exercise regime and if I should step it up You've seen what I do every day - what do you think of it?

                    When you started exercising were you cutting calories at all? I just can't seem to do that any more...
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

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                    • I didn't skim; I did read that but forgot by the time I replied. I should have RE-skimmed.

                      That sounds terrible, but I'm glad you have found coping mechanisms. hopefully getting your hormones in balance will alleviate them altogether then.

                      The causes for panic attacks seem to be quite varied. My sister had them for years after some laced weed triggered the first one. It took her forever to get off of anti-anxiety meds. She actually still might be on 1/4 of a child's dose or something. It's completely placebo at this point... Mine (I'm fairly certain) were triggered by a couple of people close to me dying tragically and unexpectedly in quick succession. I was given meds but my mom rarely gave them to me (smart woman) and would just sit and read to me every night so I could fall asleep until I eventually ceased having them about a year later. For a few years after that I would have them if I slept somewhere unfamiliar (a friend's house, hotel, etc.) but I don't have any issues with that anymore.
                      Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

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                      • I didn't cut calories at all when I started exercising. And I ate a crap diet too.

                        I think your routine looks good. You have to be patient though. It might take a while before the weight comes off.

                        Also, when you do sprints, do you do them fasted? In order to maximize fat loss from doing sprints, you should do them fasted and not eat for two hours afterward. Well, you could eat within the two-hour window as long as you eat something that doesn't trigger an insulin spike (so I guess it would have to be 100% fat). The reason is that the increase in metabolism that you experience post-sprint is caused by increased HGH production, which occurs during a 2-hour window after your sprint, and insulin suppresses HGH production so eating during that window will counteract some of the benefits of the sprint.

                        If you don't like to work out fasted, you can eat a protein/fat meal beforehand, and then don't eat anything until 2 hours after the sprint.

                        It's not so bad if you do them early in the morning (make sure you eat enough carbs the day before).

                        My journal

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                        • Originally posted by ombat View Post
                          The causes for panic attacks seem to be quite varied. My sister had them for years after some laced weed triggered the first one. It took her forever to get off of anti-anxiety meds. She actually still might be on 1/4 of a child's dose or something. It's completely placebo at this point...

                          Mine (I'm fairly certain) were triggered by a couple of people close to me dying tragically and unexpectedly in quick succession. I was given meds but my mom rarely gave them to me (smart woman) and would just sit and read to me every night so I could fall asleep until I eventually ceased having them about a year later. For a few years after that I would have them if I slept somewhere unfamiliar (a friend's house, hotel, etc.) but I don't have any issues with that anymore.
                          That's really interesting about your sister - drugs can definitely do that to some people. I've had experience in that region. These are substances that have a very profound effect on the body: there's a reason that so many indigenous cultures used them as spiritual tools. In our culture we have no understanding of them / abuse them, but yet they are the same substances. And when some people start to have experiences after taking them, it's classed as a mental illness.

                          I think panic attacks are mostly associated with emotional stress. It's probably nature's way of allowing us to process heavy trauma. Have you heard of a book called "Waking the Tiger"? It refers to an animal's response to stress; how they "shake it out". Probably you processed all your trauma through those panic attacks, so you stopped having them! Meanwhile I repressed all my trauma, so instead of processing it, it festered within me, causing all kinds of problems.

                          Originally posted by diene View Post
                          I think your routine looks good. You have to be patient though. It might take a while before the weight comes off.

                          Also, when you do sprints, do you do them fasted? In order to maximize fat loss from doing sprints, you should do them fasted and not eat for two hours afterward. Well, you could eat within the two-hour window as long as you eat something that doesn't trigger an insulin spike (so I guess it would have to be 100% fat). The reason is that the increase in metabolism that you experience post-sprint is caused by increased HGH production, which occurs during a 2-hour window after your sprint, and insulin suppresses HGH production so eating during that window will counteract some of the benefits of the sprint.

                          If you don't like to work out fasted, you can eat a protein/fat meal beforehand, and then don't eat anything until 2 hours after the sprint.

                          It's not so bad if you do them early in the morning (make sure you eat enough carbs the day before).
                          Thank you! Yeah, I just realised that I've only been exercising since 28th June That's not really much time. Damn you yoga bare, and your psychotic impatience!!

                          I've read the theories about spiriting and meal timings... I just don't think I can do it! Anything about controlling my eating is too much work for me. It's literally easier for me to starve myself than to control meal timings / portion sizes etc. Healthy!
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • If you don't think you can do it then don't worry about it. There are a lot of theories out there, but honestly I'm not sure just how much of a difference it really makes.

                            Sent from my LG-VM696 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                            • Alcohol Recovery

                              I must have made about 30 posts on MDA today...! The reason? I'm massively hungover and unwilling to get out of bed

                              Last night we threw a party, and I drank way too much. Half a bottle of red wine, a bottle and a half of champagne. Total binge drink. And guess what happened? I binged-binged. Not a huge amount of food, but the rapid, mindless, desperate eating, was there.

                              I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. And weirdly, I'm quite non-plussed about it. It doesn't mean I'm going to start doing it all over again.

                              It made me realise how much I hate drinking now. I had a social dependency on alcohol and drugs for most of my twenties, but my taste for alcohol totally disappeared when I did my yoga teacher training. I didn't drink for a year... then I started again, and enjoyed it. But these days I still don't drink much - and the last two times I drank (last Saturday and SUnday), I really didn't enjoy it. I went to bed at 4am last night - my housemates stayed up til 4pm drinking and taking drugs...! That used to be me.

                              I took pics yesterday of my body, and I'm really pleased at the progress I've made in just three weeks of exercise! I haven't dropped any fat, but the muscle definition is improving. Hoping to get some advice from people on the Fitness forum about how I could hack my regime. May end up posting it on the nutrition forum if no one replies.

                              Also, has anyone heard of / read "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot"? Looks interesting.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                That's really interesting about your sister - drugs can definitely do that to some people. I've had experience in that region. These are substances that have a very profound effect on the body: there's a reason that so many indigenous cultures used them as spiritual tools. In our culture we have no understanding of them / abuse them, but yet they are the same substances. And when some people start to have experiences after taking them, it's classed as a mental illness.

                                I think panic attacks are mostly associated with emotional stress. It's probably nature's way of allowing us to process heavy trauma. Have you heard of a book called "Waking the Tiger"? It refers to an animal's response to stress; how they "shake it out". Probably you processed all your trauma through those panic attacks, so you stopped having them! Meanwhile I repressed all my trauma, so instead of processing it, it festered within me, causing all kinds of problems.
                                I just don't think she's the kind of person who's emotionally equipped to handle those kinds of experiences and so she wound up with long-ish term issues because of it.

                                I just read some reviews of that book and it sounds very interesting and like something I would want to read. You could definitely be right; maybe my body is smarter than I give it credit for? I've always been glad that my mom rarely gave me the medication even though it meant that I had to deal with the attacks for so long. I think it's because I knew that I never would have truly dealt with things on my own if she had.

                                Do you think you're dealing with what you've repressed?
                                Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

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