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  • #91
    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
    That's amazing. And insane that you lost weight! What do you mean by "it only worked for so long"?

    I guess the fact that I'm gaining probably means this isn't boosting my metabolic rate. Maybe cos' your thyroid problems were caused by diet, whereas mine might be genetic, or else just from a much longer period of disordered eating and malnutrition...
    After a couple months i stalled with losing weight right around the 205 mark which for me is around 23% bf and i start feeling backed up. Not like constipated, just overloaded with food and toxins and stuff. That was when i was reading more about Ray Peat and also checking out fruitarianism. So i decided i needed a break from heavy eating and started IFing with a high sugar, low protein and fat diet and i found out that i was really overloaded with iron and juat eating too many foods that didnt agree with me (heavy meat, coconut milk and yogart, whole grains, vegetables). So after that step it was just a matted of seeing what fit in my diet and what didnt and also clearing out my organs a bit and getting my digestion tweaked. Its really interesting to me to think about the progression through symptoms and how each one was fixed in its own time.

    I agree that your thyroid may take longer to get fixed or my need a jump start with a bit of meds. Womens hormonal systems are much more delicate and prone to breaking. But your newest post gives me hope that your still going on the right track! Have you ever tried digestive enzymes like betein HCl? I needed that because after so long my stomach acid was just weakened and it really helped with digesting food and well it helped with everything. If you havnt i suggest you give it a try, especially be ause of the size of meals im sure your stomach is not used to it.

    Also your meal log for yesterday looks what i would consider perfect for you. Ratios, calories and food choices.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by calee View Post
      I loved your poem.
      I am sorry for your sadness.
      I too once fled a house in the night. I was 19.
      I am 62 and still base the success or failure of my life on what the scale says.
      Why is this the important marker when life has so many other Vibrant successes to focus on.
      Sending you hugs and realizing I should give myself a few as well.
      Keep writing. It can only be healing.
      Wow. Hugs to both of you. I can relate to much of this and I am so impressed by how brave both of you are to share such raw parts of your life. I hope each of you are able to find much healing through writing here and sharing with one another. I'm sure it helps to know that you're not alone.

      More hugs.
      Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

      - Robert Louis Stevenson

      Comment


      • #93
        Hey, I started a journal since the thread is dead and your journal isn't exactly the appropriate place to update about myself I'm not going to post much but I'll update a few times a week with what is happening.

        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1143699
        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

        Comment


        • #94
          Sounds like you had a great day! I find it interesting that we both had a drop of appetite with menstration. Something to note, anyway.
          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by calee View Post
            YB, I'm so happy to read that you had a better day.

            Badger girl, they say that food is the only addiction that we wear openly to show the world. I've never been drawn to drugs or drink, gambling etc. but immediately after trauma at age 7 I took to sugar as my drug of choice. They world appeared much rosier with a sugar party happening in my mouth. Shortly thereafter, my life became about deprivation to try to conform to how a girl then woman, should look, which was not chubby, fat, fatter, obese, morbidly obese.
            Hi Calee,

            I disagree about the open part. For years I've struggled to eat in front of other people. Eating is something that when I do it, I want it to consume me completely. When there's someone else around, I get annoyed, because they're "distracting" me..! Maybe we openly show it in terms of our weight, but saying that, I think any behaviour that involves a physical substance eventually shows through.

            Do you feel you've gotten a hold on deprivation or does it still consume you?
            Hugs!

            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            After a couple months i stalled with losing weight right around the 205 mark which for me is around 23% bf and i start feeling backed up. Not like constipated, just overloaded with food and toxins and stuff. That was when i was reading more about Ray Peat and also checking out fruitarianism. So i decided i needed a break from heavy eating and started IFing with a high sugar, low protein and fat diet and i found out that i was really overloaded with iron and juat eating too many foods that didnt agree with me (heavy meat, coconut milk and yogart, whole grains, vegetables). So after that step it was just a matted of seeing what fit in my diet and what didnt and also clearing out my organs a bit and getting my digestion tweaked. Its really interesting to me to think about the progression through symptoms and how each one was fixed in its own time.

            I agree that your thyroid may take longer to get fixed or my need a jump start with a bit of meds. Womens hormonal systems are much more delicate and prone to breaking. But your newest post gives me hope that your still going on the right track! Have you ever tried digestive enzymes like betein HCl? I needed that because after so long my stomach acid was just weakened and it really helped with digesting food and well it helped with everything. If you havnt i suggest you give it a try, especially be ause of the size of meals im sure your stomach is not used to it.

            Also your meal log for yesterday looks what i would consider perfect for you. Ratios, calories and food choices.
            Wow, and now you're at 10% BF?! I didn't realise Low Carbing had effected your weight so much. What did you start at and what was your highest weight if you don't mind me asking?

            I've never taken HCl, but I've considered it. I'm pretty sure I need it. I can drink shots of ACV and feel nothing in my stomach..! I'm pretty sure my gut is a mess. But I'm definitely used to big meals - I'm a binger, remember? I'm imagining that all the years of binging on crap and starving has effected my digestion. It's frustrating because it seemed to sort itself immediately when I started this, but now I'm having problems again.

            Not sure about yesterday's meal log. I kind of want to avoid dairy but I've started eating it to help my BMs...

            The things we share on the internet!
            Last edited by YogaBare; 09-25-2013, 04:18 PM.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              The things we share on the internet!
              You're right! But it's good, clean fun.
              I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by GoJenGo View Post
                Wow. Hugs to both of you. I can relate to much of this and I am so impressed by how brave both of you are to share such raw parts of your life. I hope each of you are able to find much healing through writing here and sharing with one another. I'm sure it helps to know that you're not alone.

                More hugs.
                Thanks Jen It definitely helps. Hugs back!

                Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                Sounds like you had a great day! I find it interesting that we both had a drop of appetite with menstration. Something to note, anyway.
                That didn't occur to me! It's definitely interesting... Is that usual for you? Becomes normally at my TOM I'm ravenous and get loads of cravings (which I give in to). No cravings this month, and a drop in appetite. Weird...

                Delighted you've started the journal

                Originally posted by badgergirl View Post
                it's good, clean fun.
                I don't know about clean...
                Last edited by YogaBare; 09-25-2013, 05:10 PM.
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #98
                  E.M.T.W.L

                  Entry Sixteen: Chocolate Sunday


                  I happen to love Easter Eggs. I remember one year when I was going through a bad binging phase I spent Easter Monday going around to all the local shops, buying all the half price Eggs, and then scoffing them in my room.

                  I must have been 12 the last time I received more than one Easter Egg. This year, I got four! For women, chocolate gifts are often bitter-sweet, and I receive it reluctantly. The chocolate always has the same fate: binge food. But this year, I'm actually a little happy that I received so much. I'm hoping that I can eat it incrementally as a treat when I have friends over. Part of my hopes with this experiment is that I can stop eating in private, and instead share the experience with others.

                  Sleep:
                  12am - 6am. Seems like 6am is my default setting most of the time... But slept pretty well.

                  Food:

                  Today's projection is even more of a guess than normal, as I have no idea how much goosefat was on my veggies. However, it was definitely another dip in cals. Don't know if this is cos' it's my TOM? Paleomom pointed out that she experienced something very similar as soon as she started hers.

                  Screen Shot 2013-04-01 at 10.28.31.jpg

                  Irrespective, had some strange experiences today with food. Firstly, I didn't have an appetite for meat. Normally I can't get enough of it, but today I couldn't finish what was on my plate. Instead, I craved the sweet potato and veggies.

                  Secondly, right after dinner I crashed. I don't know if this was cos' of the sweet potatoes (I never eat them) because it didn't seem like an excessive amount of food.

                  Thirdly, normally at any kind of "feast", I binge. Not today. No desire.

                  In other news
                  We spent Easter with my older sister and her family, and I found the experience quite triggering.

                  As I've mentioned, my sister also had an ED, but we had it in different forms. Hers was extreme, mine was chronic. In my thin phases I've had strangers commenting on my weight and saying I could be anorexic, but with my sister there was sometimes no "could be". there was no doubt.

                  Being with her, doing what I'm doing, made me realise how much her ED impacted upon me as a young girl. For my sister (let's call her Sycamore), restriction started early. She always had a big appetite, and by age two had started to get a bit was a bit tubby. My Mum, the greyhound, like many naturally thin people has big issues with fatness, and thought the best thing to do was put Sycamore on a diet. By age 15 she was completely obsessed with her weight. She would incessantly watch beauty pagents, look at pictures of models, and ask me if she was fat / pretty compared to X,Y,Z. I was 10, and she kept saying how much she envied how thin I was (I was a skinny kid). By the time she was 17 she was bulimic, and I used to hear her vomiting in the bathroom next to me at night. When I was 13 I confronted her about it, and eventually she admitted it. This created a weird sort of intimacy between us, where she could come into the bathroom when I was there and start getting sick in front of me.

                  I don't want to blame my sister for the issues I have with food, but I do feel that her obsessiveness filtered into me at quite a young age. I began restricting before I hit my teens, even though I was already always underweight.

                  And being with her yesterday filled me with envy and resentment. For all appearances, she seems to have gotten over her ED. She looks great - long, lean, good muscle tone; beautiful hair, skin, face. I, on the other hand, am heavier than I've ever been, and am developing cellulite and wrinkles. I feel like I'm lost my looks and am rotting away at an accelerated pace, whereas she's gotten married, had two kids, and in spite of subjecting me to all many of torments with food and eating, looks better than me. Genes? ha!

                  I actually adore my sister, but I'm bitter.

                  And at the end of the day:
                  My BM "difficulty" has resurfaced, so I'm eating more yogurt to try and help it. Also, I've been body brushing, and while my skin is getting softer, I haven't noticed any improvement in my circulation or my spider veins. Additionally, the cellulite I have seems to be getting worse. I have heard that it can get worse before it gets better. It's just frustrating, cos before I went Primal I had none.

                  I know I'm making progress psychologically, but I really wish my body would hurry up and start doing something.

                  I'm starting to plan how I'm going to lose the weight. I think, in a few weeks, I could start to cycle calories, sensibly. Would that be a bad idea?
                  Last edited by YogaBare; 04-13-2013, 02:58 AM.
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Wow, and now you're at 10% BF?! I didn't realise Low Carbing had effected your weight so much. What did you start at and what was your highest weight if you don't mind me asking?

                    I've never taken HCl, but I've considered it. I'm pretty sure I need it. I can drink shots of ACV and feel nothing in my stomach..! I'm pretty sure my gut is a mess. But I'm definitely used to big meals - I'm a binger, remember? I'm imagining that all the years of binging on crap and starving has effected my digestion. It's frustrating because it seemed to sort itself immediately when I started this, but now I'm having problems again.

                    Not sure about yesterday's meal log. I kind of want to avoid dairy but I've started eating it to help my BMs...

                    The things we share on the internet!
                    Im at 15~% bf right now and slowly dropping. Long ago before paleo i was 178 at my all time leanest, that was after a typical diet down from 200 because i was into drinking and playing video games all day. Decided to change things up, started working out and eating good, no drinking and dropped fat like nothing. Then i got into health and nutrition and found paleo and things went fownhill from there. Over 5+ year i hit a high of 220 even though there were very few days that i went over 2500 calories! It was a super slow evolution and it would be a long write up if i were to write how everything happened. Now im at just under 190 and looking at 180 but i have much more muscle now then before so not sure what my goal weight really is.

                    I dont know if you have any health food stores or maybe even drug stores but i seriously advice you to go out and find a betein hcl product today! The difference with not only my digestion but my energy, skin, strength and muscle mass is almost night and day. This my very well be your key to the body change your waiting for. If you think about how important your digestion is for absorbing nutriants and breaking down fat. Plus its cheap, twinlabs has a bottle for $20.

                    Comment


                    • Losing appetite at TOM isn't really normal for me but I don't really get cravings then either. I will usually have a hot chocolate the day I start, but that is it. It sure was notable when I went from 3400-4000 calories down to around 2000-2700 overnight.

                      Cellulite is definitely an inflammation thing. Everything I do that reduces inflammation reduced cellulite. If you really want it gone cold baths got rid of it completely for me (I haven't continued because it's not all the fun It takes about 5-7 days to take effect but will go away after half a week of not doing it. Once it is gone probably every other day baths would be enough. Or just live with it and know it is temporary. It is blessing you with the experience of understanding other women on a different level lol.
                      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                        Im at 15~% bf right now and slowly dropping. Long ago before paleo i was 178 at my all time leanest, that was after a typical diet down from 200 because i was into drinking and playing video games all day. Decided to change things up, started working out and eating good, no drinking and dropped fat like nothing. Then i got into health and nutrition and found paleo and things went fownhill from there. Over 5+ year i hit a high of 220 even though there were very few days that i went over 2500 calories! It was a super slow evolution and it would be a long write up if i were to write how everything happened. Now im at just under 190 and looking at 180 but i have much more muscle now then before so not sure what my goal weight really is.

                        I dont know if you have any health food stores or maybe even drug stores but i seriously advice you to go out and find a betein hcl product today! The difference with not only my digestion but my energy, skin, strength and muscle mass is almost night and day. This my very well be your key to the body change your waiting for. If you think about how important your digestion is for absorbing nutriants and breaking down fat. Plus its cheap, twinlabs has a bottle for $20.
                        Quite the journey you've had! It's crazy how often people damage their health in the pursuit of better health... jogging etc. I think what I've learned from this is that self experimentation is great but... look before you leap?

                        Thanks for the HCl recom. I went straight to a pharmacy to find it, but those things aren't so readily available in this part of the world. I can order it online though.

                        I was thinking - do you think it would help if I upped my sugar intake? I take about a tea spoon a day, maximum four, but maybe that's not enough? It's crazy, but whenever I have tea with sugar, I feel this kind of buzzing right where my thyroid is. I literally feel it doing something to it. And it definitely gives me a considerable boost, which is amazing considering I only take one tea spoon.

                        Also, what do you think of calorie cycling as a way to lose weight? Does it have an adverse effect on metabolism?

                        Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                        Cellulite is definitely an inflammation thing. Everything I do that reduces inflammation reduced cellulite. If you really want it gone cold baths got rid of it completely for me (I haven't continued because it's not all the fun It takes about 5-7 days to take effect but will go away after half a week of not doing it. Once it is gone probably every other day baths would be enough. Or just live with it and know it is temporary. It is blessing you with the experience of understanding other women on a different level lol.
                        I agree with you about inflammation. My circulation is really bad and my legs 'feel' congested. The weird thing is, I used to feel it under my skin but it wasn't visible before, and then in the last few months, during this latest ED relapse it's started to appear. I'll try the cold baths, but ideally i should be working on getting rid of the inflammation. Not quite sure how to do that though...
                        Last edited by YogaBare; 09-25-2013, 04:20 PM.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • The cold does work by ridding the inflammation, cold is probably the most powerful anti-inflammatory there is. It just doesn't do anything for the cause of the inflammation. I have a feeling that when you are on the other side of this hill and temp is up all will be well
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Quite the journey you've had! It's crazy how often people damage their health in the pursuit of better health... jogging etc. I think what I've learned from this is that self experimentation is great but... look before you leap?

                            Thanks for the HCl recom. I went straight to a pharmacy to find it, but those things aren't so readily available in this part of the world. I can order it online though.

                            I was thinking - do you think it would help if I upped my sugar intake? I take about a tea spoon a day, maximum four, but maybe that's not enough? It's crazy, but whenever I have tea with sugar, I feel this kind of buzzing right where my thyroid is. I literally feel it doing something to it. And it definitely gives me a considerable boost, which is amazing considering I only take one tea spoon.

                            Also, what do you think of calorie cycling as a way to lose weight? Does it have an adverse effect on metabolism?
                            You should talk to Derp about the sugar. I dont believe i ever experienced any benefits from added sugar, fruit and dairy on the other hand always make me feel better. Some people seem to di really well with a lot of added sugar and it seems to boost thyroid quite a bit. I would certainly lower fat intake if you gave it a try otherwise you will for sure gain some fat.

                            The only calorie cycling i recommend would be if you were actively exercising. Without the insulin sensitivity from some form of strength training i think cycling is pretty pointless. Im much fonder of just taking breaks from eating, say from 7pm to 10am to give digestion a break. Maybe a longer fast now and then to clean house. What type of calorie cycling did you have in mind?

                            As for inflammation, im willing to bet that if your stomach acid is low the. A lot of your inflammation is coming from undigested starch, protein and fats. If they dont get fully broken down, you will get leaky gut symptoms and your immune system will attack itself. Also the hih amount of protein and starch you eat might also be a factor and like i said, a more peat diet could help with that, something to try down the road. I also dont like cold water therapy for two reasons, one it is a shock to the system and therefore stress. This is ok for someone with a robust metabolism but for someone in a fragile state it can be too much kinf od like excess exercise. Second it encourages the body to keep a layer of protective fat which i dont think is your goal. Yes it induces calorie burning but it also tricks yor body into thinking its very cold, kind of like if you undereat it conserves fat. There may be some good side effects like the cellulite and acute inflammation, maybe a once or twice a week thing might be helpful, i prefer jumping into a cold lake or pool.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              The cold does work by ridding the inflammation, cold is probably the most powerful anti-inflammatory there is. It just doesn't do anything for the cause of the inflammation. I have a feeling that when you are on the other side of this hill and temp is up all will be well
                              I hope so Yeah, all these other things are just symptoms... got to find the cause!

                              Originally posted by Zach View Post
                              The only calorie cycling i recommend would be if you were actively exercising. Without the insulin sensitivity from some form of strength training i think cycling is pretty pointless. Im much fonder of just taking breaks from eating, say from 7pm to 10am to give digestion a break. Maybe a longer fast now and then to clean house. What type of calorie cycling did you have in mind?

                              As for inflammation, im willing to bet that if your stomach acid is low the. A lot of your inflammation is coming from undigested starch, protein and fats. If they dont get fully broken down, you will get leaky gut symptoms and your immune system will attack itself. Also the hih amount of protein and starch you eat might also be a factor and like i said, a more peat diet could help with that, something to try down the road. I also dont like cold water therapy for two reasons, one it is a shock to the system and therefore stress. This is ok for someone with a robust metabolism but for someone in a fragile state it can be too much kinf od like excess exercise. Second it encourages the body to keep a layer of protective fat which i dont think is your goal. Yes it induces calorie burning but it also tricks yor body into thinking its very cold, kind of like if you undereat it conserves fat. There may be some good side effects like the cellulite and acute inflammation, maybe a once or twice a week thing might be helpful, i prefer jumping into a cold lake or pool.
                              I'm normally pretty active. I do yoga most days, swim a few times a week, sprint once a week, and I cycle everywhere. Right now I'm just going for walks and doing some yoga. But by 'calorie cycling' I simply mean having 2-3 days a week where I eat a lot, and eating under 1,500 for the rest of the week. I did it for about two weeks in Feb and I dropped 6 lbs. But then I took it too far and started "IFing" on my low cal days, then started skipping lunch and before I knew it my low cal days were 800 cals. So I know it's a slippery slop, and I'm not ready to try it yet, but I'm hoping when I'm less of a psycho about food it might be a good way to lose the extra... curves

                              I've thought for ages that I might have low stomach acid. I hate to say all the things in my body that aren't working right, cos I sound like a hypochondriac, but the symptoms I have being diagnosed with (or are visibly apparent) are (bolded):

                              Conditions linked to low stomach acid include: allergies and intolerances, anemia, asthma, autoimmune diseases, chronic candida, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), chronic hepatitis, chronic hives, celiac disease, dry skin, eczema, gallbladder disease, gastrointestinal (GI) infections and parasites, hypoglycemia, irritable bowel syndrome(IBS), lupus, osteoporosis, psoriasis, reduced night vision, rheumatic arthritis, rosacea, thyroid disorders, type I and II diabetes, vitiligo (a skin disorder characterized by white patches or spots), weakened hair, nails or skin, fatigue, gas, headaches, hypertension, insomnia, irritation, muscle aches and pain, and many other problems.
                              And we're suspecting thyroid.

                              I was a bit wary of those HCl pills. I just hate the idea of taking any pill to "fix" me, cos the effects only seem to work as long as you're taking it. Is the HCl is more like a "tonic", in that it restores something back to equilibrium?
                              Last edited by YogaBare; 09-25-2013, 04:21 PM.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post

                                I was a bit wary of those HCl pills. I just hate the idea of taking any pill to "fix" me, cos the effects only seem to work as long as you're taking it. Is the HCl is more like a "tonic", in that it restores something back to equilibrium?
                                The usual recommendation is to slowly up your dose one cap at a time until you feel a warming (for me it was a burning) sensation in the stomach then back off by one cap and that is your dose. Over time when you start feeling the warming sensation again back off by another cap until you are off of it. It is a temporary boost. Fermented foods before meals are also supposed to trigger your body to start producing HCl and might help you need less supplemental HCl.

                                I like the kind with pepsin in it. I took a different kind once and it was horrible even at really low doses.
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                                Comment

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