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  • I don't have my recent labs with me right now but my free T3 was 2.8. We are aiming for 3.2 at least. I was on 3.25 grains at the time. I go back in 3 weeks for more labs.

    The last time I had reverse T3 tested my ratio result was 8.5. It's supposed to be above 20. I'm looking to get rid of the reverse T3 with Cynomel and I'm going to start back with adaptogens soon for cortisol. I'm going to talk to my doctor about this when I go back.

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    • My T4 is always a little higher than my T3... Poor conversion

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      • Yeah, so according to Ray Peat, modern diagnostic methods for thyroid disorders suck and that's why there are ludicrous examples of people who were diagnosed as both hyper and hypo. He makes a good point when he says that although in quantum mechanics, a particle can be both a particle and a wave, in biology, things are usually not simultaneously one thing and its opposite.

        There is a negative feedback loop along the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis. So increased T3 and T4 causes the hypothalamus to decrease the release of TRH and the pituitary to decrease the release of TSH. (But reduced TRH levels also reduces the release of TSH since TRH triggers the release of TSH by the pituitary.) The fact that taking T3 activates this negative feedback loop doesn't mean that it downregulates the thyroid. All it does is attenuate the release of TSH.

        I wonder if the TSH receptors in the thyroid are down-regulated when the body is constantly flooded with TSH. So is it possible to develop TSH resistance, the way some people develop insulin resistance? If so, then lowering one's TSH levels is probably a good thing. According to Ray Peat, TSH itself is harmful--can't remember why right now, and can't look it up at the moment cuz have a lot of work to do.

        And I wouldn't start with 25 mcg of Cynomel. I would try to divide the tablet into 12 parts (may be very difficult) and take approximately 2 mcg 3 x a day to start. I read that it's possible to use a nail clipper to cut it into quarters and then take tiny bites out of each quarter. Three bites per quarter. Do that for a week, and if nothing changes, increase it to 4 x a day, and so on.

        My journal

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        • Thanks for all the input everyone! Does anyone know where T4 comes from so? If T3 is covered from T4, is T4 covered from TSH? Or is T4 made in the thyroid? Basically asking: what would cause low T4?

          Diene, I love that Peat article! Read it a few months ago. Thanks for the refresher. great summation.
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

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          • Thyroid hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia provides a good summary. Basically, T4 is made by the thyroid. TSH just stimulates the thyroid to produce T4. The wikipedia article summarizes the entire pathway. I think anything could go wrong along the pathway that could result in low T4. The most common cause is a compromised thyroid caused by some kind of autoimmune disorder, like Hashimoto's, where the immune system attacks the thyroid and slowly destroys it.

            I'm not sure how estrogen dominance results in hypothyroidism. But I'm sure it's explained somewhere in one of Ray Peat's articles.

            My journal

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            • Thanks so much Diene! God, I had a complete brain freeze moment there... saying oestrogen dominance causes low thyroid and then asking why my T4 might be low..! Dumbo Yogabare.

              Found an article by Peat and it says that "Estrogen inhibits the secretion of hormone by the thyroid gland itself, probably by inhibiting the proteolytic enzyme which dissolves the colloid." Wow. I'm text book Estrogen Dominance! Sounds weird, but it's such a relief to that all these pieces fit together.

              Progesterone promotes the release of the hormones from the gland, so if your oestrogen is high, and prog is low, you won't produce T4. At the same time, the thyroid is essential for producing progesterone, and thyroid function also stimulates the liver to inactivate oestrogen's, so oestrogen dominance causes a viscous cycle of low prog and high oestrogen.

              Now here's the interesting part:

              "Progesterone (even one dose, in some cases) can break the cycle. However, if the gland is very big, the person can experience a few months of hyperthyroidism, as the gland returns to normal. It is better to allow the enlarged gland to shrink more slowly by using a thyroid supplement....

              If the problem is that the ratio of estrogen to progesterone is too high, though progesterone might itself be at a reasonable level, thyroid becomes crucial, to bring the estrogen level down to normal."
              So according to Peat, there are advantages to treating Ost dom with thyroid medication instead of progesterone, even though this is not how it's normally treated. I imagine it would be T4 that should be supplements, not cytomel? I'll have to check that...

              I've just posted about it on the Ray Peat forum, hopefully someone there will know more.

              In the interim, Peat recommends this book on the thyroid: I think it's out of print now, but apparently you can still get copies and it's amazing:

              "The Thyroid"
              Thomas Hodge McGavack (Author), James M. Winfield (Contributor), Walter L. Mersheimer (Contributor)
              Apparently reprinted as paperback in 2010.

              Peat says:
              Thomas H. McGavack's 1951 book, The Thyroid, was representative of the earlier approach to the study of thyroid physiology. Familiarity with the different effects of abnormal thyroid function under different conditions, at different ages, and the effects of gender, were standard parts of medical education that had disappeared by the end of the century. Arthritis, irregularities of growth, wasting, obesity, a variety of abnormalities of the hair and skin, carotenemia, amenorrhea, tendency to miscarry, infertility in males and females, insomnia or somnolence, emphysema, various heart diseases, psychosis, dementia, poor memory, anxiety, cold extremities, anemia, and many other problems were known reasons to suspect hypothyroidism. If the physician didn't have a device for measuring oxygen consumption, estimated calorie intake could provide supporting evidence. The Achilles' tendon reflex was another simple objective measurement with a very strong correlation to the basal metabolic rate. Skin electrical resistance, or whole body impedance wasn't widely accepted, though it had considerable scientific validity.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

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              • My Breasts are growing

                Three days into my second course of Duphaston, supplementing with Vitex, and woah. I can't believe the difference! Last month when I took it I just felt a bit weird: this time I had an instant shift in energy and mood. I feel great, positive, and in the last few days, my breasts have grown an extra third! I read that Duphaston can do that, but it's completely bizarre..! For the first time in my life, I feel like I have a rack It must be water weight, but I hope it doesn't whoosh down if I start losing weight.

                Also, have felt a kind of buzzing at my thyroid: feels like it's being stimulated. I've also had very little desire to eat meat for the last few days... might be cos' I'm started taking two sachets of knox gelatine in my coffee? Speaking of coffee, I've been drinking like five cups a day... plus black tea with sugar! Very usual for me to drink that much caffeine, but I want it and it's only giving me positive effects. I've also been devouring fruit and cottage cheese.

                Only three days in, but it's really weird to see these changes. So far my dosage has been 2 x 40 drops Vitex, and 2 x 10 mg Duphaston. I ingest them at regular intervals throughout the day. Taking a leaf from Ombat's book and not using any other sups for the moment. Though I might start having a glass of whiskey in the evenings...
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • Maybe I should try the liquid form of Vitex! I've just been taking capsules. Two capsules and my libido goes nuts (more than I'm comfortable with). I'm genetically predisposed to have tiny breasts, but I'm okay with that.
                  Depression Lies

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                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    My Breasts are growing
                    Woah! My eyes popped out when I saw that! You have no idea how many things I tried when I was younger to make my breasts grow bigger! (Nothing worked, in case you're wondering.) You know, back in those days, in the forums, they always recommended that you take estrogen for that. Turns out they were wrong, and you're supposed to take progesterone?

                    I think I'm buying the Cynomel from the Mexican pharmacy.

                    My journal

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                    • have you started a shoulder/headstand cycle to facilitate the thyroid?

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                      • Originally posted by diene View Post
                        I think I'm buying the Cynomel from the Mexican pharmacy.
                        May I ask why you are considering taking a T3 med?

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                        • Hey, sorry for the late replies guys! Had a few days off MDA.

                          Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                          have you started a shoulder/headstand cycle to facilitate the thyroid?
                          I do headstands once or twice a week.... is there a specific sequence that would benefit me?

                          Originally posted by CiKi90
                          Oooh, Yoga, you're gonna be even more voluptuous?! I don't think I can handle it hahaha

                          Have you taken measurements, or anything? This is amazing. I'm glad you're finding things that are working for you. Maybe I should take the big boob tonic, too! Ha.

                          Honestly though, with everyone talking about thyroid in nearly every journal I pop into, I have to admit I'm completely lost on the topic. I know absolutely nothing about thyroid, and just tryiiiiing to understand what y'all are talking about makes my head hurt!
                          Ugh god... voluptuous is the last thing I wanted to be...! But, at least if I had a better rack, the curves wouldn't be so bad

                          I took my measurements yesterday: have grown half an inch in the bust! But, I've also put on half an inch in my hips, and an inch in my belly (no change in my waist) so it could well just be part of my overall weight gain which will change back when I lose weight...

                          Ha, yeah it's complicated! Don't bother with it unless you have a thyroid condition (which you don't)

                          Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                          Maybe I should try the liquid form of Vitex! I've just been taking capsules. Two capsules and my libido goes nuts (more than I'm comfortable with). I'm genetically predisposed to have tiny breasts, but I'm okay with that.
                          I think the liquid form of anything usually has fewer additives, so I'd be more inclined to take that. Yes, also have a tiny chest... which is why I've fought so hard to be skinny. I feel like I look more balanced like that...

                          Originally posted by diene View Post
                          Woah! My eyes popped out when I saw that! You have no idea how many things I tried when I was younger to make my breasts grow bigger! (Nothing worked, in case you're wondering.) You know, back in those days, in the forums, they always recommended that you take estrogen for that. Turns out they were wrong, and you're supposed to take progesterone?
                          It specifically says that one of the side effects of Duphaston is breast growth! So I don't know if that's the progesterone, or the combination of drugs in the tablets or what...
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • Working my upper body makes me feel more balanced. I've got wide shoulders anyway.
                            Depression Lies

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                            • Originally posted by CiKi90
                              Oooh, Yoga, you're gonna be even more voluptuous?! I don't think I can handle it hahaha

                              Have you taken measurements, or anything? This is amazing. I'm glad you're finding things that are working for you. Maybe I should take the big boob tonic, too! Ha.

                              Honestly though, with everyone talking about thyroid in nearly every journal I pop into, I have to admit I'm completely lost on the topic. I know absolutely nothing about thyroid, and just tryiiiiing to understand what y'all are talking about makes my head hurt!
                              I'm glad I'm not the only feeling lost here. I have no idea what my T3 or T4 numbers are or how to find out.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Zanna View Post
                                I'm glad I'm not the only feeling lost here. I have no idea what my T3 or T4 numbers are or how to find out.
                                Add me to that club. I've learned so much from these guys (read Zach, Yoga and Derpamix) but I'm not even scratching the surface when it comes to actually grasping the whole concepts when it comes to hormones and stuff. For me "eat more fructose, so T4 can convert to T3" is good enough.

                                My layman understanding is that the thyroid hormone T4 converts to T3 in the liver and that conversion is essential for normally functioning thyroid and the process is aided by ingesting sufficient carbs - mainly by fructose.
                                My own n=1 VLC for long time = severe hair loss. So, something was amiss there.

                                Yoga, are you sure the increased measurements in the hips and belly were not only a temporary bloat? It's very difficult to be consistent with that tape too.

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