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  • I'm going to chime in here. As someone who has been to hormone hell and back I don't recommend taking hormones when there is not an established need. And as bad as doctors can be I don't think taking hormones without supervision/awareness is wise. I also think one has to give things time to settle down/improve after you've started one hormone.

    Hormonal imbalance didn't happen overnight. And, experience has taught me getting things back in balance can take a while, be a bumping road, and requires education, tenacity and patience.

    And YB, if memory serves me correctly your thyroid numbers showed both low "normal" for FT4 and FT3 with conversion being pretty good. I don't think I'd want to risk down regulating my present thyroid function by taking hormones that may be low because of other issues-- anemia, low vitamin D, too few calories/carb, liver function, low selenium....I also would not want to go hyPER.

    Finally YB, progesterone or progestin, as Duphaston is, can have the following side effcects:
    depression
    loss of libido,
    increase appetite
    weight gain
    acne,
    bloating
    yeast problems
    lethargy
    backaches, fibromyalgia-like pain

    List of side effects taken from Screaming To Be Heard by Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet MD

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
      I know, I'm a hypocrite cos I said to you a few weeks ago that I didn't agree with supplementing thyroid hormone when you are not hypo! If Cytomel healed the thyroid, as opposed to improving its function for as long as you take it I would be all over it, but I'm not sure that it does...

      Derp?
      It does. Ray Peat actually took cynomel to heal his hyperthyroidism
      Make America Great Again

      Comment


      • Originally posted by marcadav View Post

        And YB, if memory serves me correctly your thyroid numbers showed both low "normal" for FT4 and FT3 with conversion being pretty good. I don't think I'd want to risk down regulating my present thyroid function by taking hormones that may be low because of other issues-- anemia, low vitamin D, too few calories/carb, liver function, low selenium....I also would not want to go hyPER.
        Yoga- Our thyroid situations are quite different. looking into the things marcadav suggested is a good idea.

        Have you supplemented selenium? You could also add some iodine but only take it with selenium. You could try dandelion root tea to help detox the liver. I just started the tea back yesterday myself.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
          It does. Ray Peat actually took cynomel to heal his hyperthyroidism
          That's interesting!

          How do you think that worked? Maybe because the t3 took some pressure off the thyroid?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
            I'm going to chime in here. As someone who has been to hormone hell and back I don't recommend taking hormones when there is not an established need. And as bad as doctors can be I don't think taking hormones without supervision/awareness is wise. I also think one has to give things time to settle down/improve after you've started one hormone.

            And YB, if memory serves me correctly your thyroid numbers showed both low "normal" for FT4 and FT3 with conversion being pretty good.
            Marcadav, thank you for the info! I wasn't going to start taking it immediately, but to try it maybe after my third month of Duphaston, if I still wasn't improving. But I think you're right. I'm practically 100% sure my thyroid is low cos' of the Oestrogen Dom, so it's better to deal with that and see if the thyroid corrects itself afterwards.

            It was actually my t4 that was too low. I got it checked twice: the first time it was below the norm (11.6), the second time it was just above (12.4). Norm is 12 - 22. I can't remember my t3 exactly, but it was in the lower 20%.

            Originally posted by marcadav View Post
            I don't think I'd want to risk down regulating my present thyroid function by taking hormones that may be low because of other issues-- anemia, low vitamin D, too few calories/carb, liver function, low selenium....I also would not want to go hyPER.
            I didn't think of that... so basically supplementing with t3 causes the thyroid to slow down?

            Originally posted by marcadav View Post
            Finally YB, progesterone or progestin, as Duphaston is, can have the following side effcects:
            depression
            loss of libido,
            increase appetite
            weight gain
            acne,
            bloating
            yeast problems
            lethargy
            backaches, fibromyalgia-like pain

            List of side effects taken from Screaming To Be Heard by Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet MD
            I read about those symptoms - they are all oestrogen ones! I think what might happen is that too low a dosage might cause a exasperation of oestrogen dominance, and then people blame it on the drug, as opposed to the dosage. I didn't notice anything last month when I took it, but the supplementation of Vitex is making a big difference this time!
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              It does. Ray Peat actually took cynomel to heal his hyperthyroidism
              Originally posted by brookesam View Post
              That's interesting!

              How do you think that worked? Maybe because the t3 took some pressure off the thyroid?
              I second Brooke's question! Although I was on your journal earlier and jeeze louise... Dr. Derp! We'll have to start making appointments if we want our questions answered

              Originally posted by brookesam View Post
              Yoga- Our thyroid situations are quite different. looking into the things marcadav suggested is a good idea.

              Have you supplemented selenium? You could also add some iodine but only take it with selenium. You could try dandelion root tea to help detox the liver. I just started the tea back yesterday myself.
              I eat seaweed occasionally, but the thing is I never get the urge for it... usually my body tells me if I need something and then I'll have it. last Autumn I used to eat 200gs of Brazil nuts a day... I did feel pretty good when I was doing that, but then I got "Fear of PUFA". I don't know... I'm a bit skeptical of the iodine-seleum supplementation tbh. Don't know why!

              I've heard dandelion tea is really good. Have you noticed any effect? I was taking milk thistle but wasn't feeling anything so I stopped.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

              Comment


              • I drank dandelion tea religiously (basically, copious amounts of it) for a while. Didn't notice any effect. But it tastes pretty good, has a sort of nutty flavor.

                I think I probably still have some. I should dig it out and make some jello with it. I'm obsessed with making tea jello now.

                Edited to add: Like the "Fear cuts deeper than swords" quote in your sig. Meant to tell you yesterday but forgot. Think I'm developing early onset Alzheimer's.

                My journal

                Comment


                • Originally posted by diene View Post
                  I drank dandelion tea religiously (basically, copious amounts of it) for a while. Didn't notice any effect. But it tastes pretty good, has a sort of nutty flavor.

                  I think I probably still have some. I should dig it out and make some jello with it. I'm obsessed with making tea jello now.

                  Edited to add: Like the "Fear cuts deeper than swords" quote in your sig. Meant to tell you yesterday but forgot. Think I'm developing early onset Alzheimer's.
                  I would love to know what you're supposed to feel when you start taking something. I kind of think that if it's working you should notice some kind of difference straight away... I'm drinking raspberry tea for low progesterone and I definitely feel something when I drink it - it's sooo warming.

                  Haha - I had coffee jello earlier! It wasn't bad, actually.

                  YES. I love that quote. It's my current new life motto
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    I second Brooke's question! Although I was on your journal earlier and jeeze louise... Dr. Derp! We'll have to start making appointments if we want our questions answered



                    I eat seaweed occasionally, but the thing is I never get the urge for it... usually my body tells me if I need something and then I'll have it. last Autumn I used to eat 200gs of Brazil nuts a day... I did feel pretty good when I was doing that, but then I got "Fear of PUFA". I don't know... I'm a bit skeptical of the iodine-seleum supplementation tbh. Don't know why!

                    I've heard dandelion tea is really good. Have you noticed any effect? I was taking milk thistle but wasn't feeling anything so I stopped.
                    Derp and Zach need to start a practice. I'm willing to relocate to work there too.

                    I used to eat 2-4 Brazil nuts a day. Any more than that and you can get selenium toxicity. How many is 200gs? I take Life Extension Super Selenium Complex. I'm kinda scared of taking iodine from a pill or seaweed because of hashimotos. I might experiment with it soon.

                    I took milk thistle years ago.... I didn't really notice much from it. Dandelion root tea also helps with water retention. Looking back, I felt better when I was drinking it. I think it helped me with any T4 issues I was having at the time. T4 can build up in the liver if it's not converted into T3 (as I understand it).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post

                      It was actually my t4 that was too low. I got it checked twice: the first time it was below the norm (11.6), the second time it was just above (12.4). Norm is 12 - 22. I can't remember my t3 exactly, but it was in the lower 20%.



                      I didn't think of that... so basically supplementing with t3 causes the thyroid to slow down?



                      I read about those symptoms - they are all oestrogen ones! I think what might happen is that too low a dosage might cause a exasperation of oestrogen dominance, and then people blame it on the drug, as opposed to the dosage. I didn't notice anything last month when I took it, but the supplementation of Vitex is making a big difference this time!
                      For healthy people most T3 comes from T4 being converted, mainly in the liver. A good indication that someone has poor T4 to T3 conversion is to look where they FT4 and FT3 are. Good converters have both frees in relatively the same place in their respective ranges. Poor converter have lower T3 than T4.

                      Because your T4 was below or barely above the lowest part of it's range and your T3 was at 20% of its range says to me, while you are low in thyroid hormones the small amount of T4 you have seems to convert well.

                      Supplementing T3 tends to drive TSH down. When TSH is low the brain is happy and thinks enough thyroid hormone is being produced. This MAY not be the case. The body may be not producing enough hormones but since the brain, via TSH, is happy the thyroid is not getting the signal to increase hormone production.

                      Many symptoms of hormonal issues can overlap. You can have hypo symptoms when you are hyperthyroid and you can have high estradiol symptoms when progesterone is high. That is why testing to see where things stand is important.

                      I really like this book. It helped me understand things.
                      Women, Weight and Hormones: A Weight-Loss Plan for Women Over 35: Elizabeth Lee, M.D. Vliet: 9780871319326: Amazon.com: Books

                      Finally, before taking supplemental T3 I hope anyone considering it understands it fully. Too much can be as negative as too little. And while I think thyroid hormones need to be treated under medical supervision starting with 25mcg of cytomel is, IMO, a very bad idea.

                      I've been on thyroid hormones for 13+ years. I have never taken 25mcg of cytomel.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
                        I've been on thyroid hormones for 13+ years. I have never taken 25mcg of cytomel.
                        If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

                        My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by brookesam View Post
                          If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

                          My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.
                          ...yes, but the T3 in dessicated thyroid is also bound to other constituents (like T4, T2, T1, calcitonin, iodine), so your body treats it different, MUCH differently than taking the equivalent in straight T3 (like cyto/cynomel).

                          A single does of 12.5mcg of T3 is enough to drive many people hyper (for a few hours anyways), so I wouldn't recommend starting out any higher. And due to the short half-life (of T3), small doses every few hours is in most cases, much more effective..hebs

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brookesam View Post
                            If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

                            My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.
                            I take 137 mcg generic Unithroid (T4) and 15mcg Cytomel (not generic). I like taking separate T4 and T3 because you can increase or decrease one without the other. I have also read/heard that the amount of T3 in combo drugs like Armour can be too much for some people and lead to needing to add additional T4 to it.

                            I also take it all at the same time, in the morning at least an hour before food. When I started taking Cytomel I took it multiple times a day and found it to be a pain. After hearing others were taking it all at once and saw/felt no difference I tried it that way. Works for me.I feel best when my frees are above midpoint, closer to 75% of their ranges. I have never experienced any hyPER symptoms.

                            When was the last time you had your FT4 and FT3 levels checked? Were you on your present dose? What were your results?

                            Comment


                            • I don't have my recent labs with me right now but my free T3 was 2.8. We are aiming for 3.2 at least. I was on 3.25 grains at the time. I go back in 3 weeks for more labs.

                              The last time I had reverse T3 tested my ratio result was 8.5. It's supposed to be above 20. I'm looking to get rid of the reverse T3 with Cynomel and I'm going to start back with adaptogens soon for cortisol. I'm going to talk to my doctor about this when I go back.

                              Comment


                              • My T4 is always a little higher than my T3... Poor conversion

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