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  • I didn't realize you had such serious, deep seated issues with your mom. Your struggles with ED make a lot of sense now. If you grew up constantly being berated for who you were, it stands to reason that you would find it difficult to love yourself and try to change yourself in any way that you could, or in ways that were perceived to be better, or maybe you were even punishing yourself because you believed all of the things she told you. Spending so much time in fear is so harmful. You've been under stress for a great deal of time and will take much to heal. I think you're on the right track with self love.

    Also... I read all of your posts with an accent now... orz

    EDIT: ALSO, I know you are at your highest weight ever, but that doesn't mean you weigh too much. I truly think that you look fantastic. I know that won't change your mind, but I have to say it anyway. Nobody who saw you that day in your cute skirt, jacket, and jewelry and saw you flash your pretty smile would give a second thought to your weight. <3
    Last edited by ombat; 06-24-2013, 07:06 PM.
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
      Thanks Sauerkraut, and welcome! I saw your posts on Derps journal and liked your outlook.

      That's a great cover of "Love song"! I kind of adore The Cure version, but this definitely works well.

      So is Krautland Germany or am I being really unimaginative? :d
      Thank you! I've never been much of a "forum" person, but I'm willing to give technology a chance I might even start my own journal !

      Oh you're not being unimaginative, Krautland should stand for Germany but I'm from Switzerland.... I figured that's close enough! (somehow Cheeseland sounded too funny). Oh, I totally share your love for California (and The Cure ) I'm very "weather sensitive", my mood is totally conditioned by how much sun there is, and I found Cali to have the perfect balance. If there was such a place in Europe, I'd be there (Spain does not cut it for me) I lived in London and as much as I love the city, I had to get out of there after a while!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by diene View Post
        Hey, hey, sorry to hear about the problems with your mom. I have similar issues with my mom.

        Our relationship improved as I got older, but I'm sure that it would go to hell again if I had to spend two whole weeks on vacation with her. I think a lot of parent-adult child relationships are difficult, and everyone kinda has to do some pretending in order to get along. It is pretty sad though.
        Thanks for the long post Diene! I'm sorry that you had such similar problems with your mum. You reminded me that from a very young age I used to fantasise about running away. I used to pack my things into a bag (usually some fancy dress clothes and a few My Little Ponies)and hide the bag in our garden, waiting for my chance. She always caught me..!

        How was your mum about privacy? That was another thing about my mum: I was her property, and I wasn't allowed to have any boundaries. My room was never my sacred space: even as a teenager she would go through my drawers. When I started smoking I used to have to hide my cigarettes in the garden, wrapped in a plastic bag...!

        The pretending thing is quite hard cos' I'm such an honest person, and I hate the thought of one of the closest relationships in my life being based on pleasantries. I also hate the pressure of having to be the model daughter, but this is the only way I've found to genuinely get on with her.

        Originally posted by diene View Post
        I love that song, by the way. It made me all teary eyed. (I was at work too!)

        I don't think I've ever met any online friends in real life though. (You can be the first one!!! )
        So glad you liked it! It moves me too, especially if I sing it.

        And YEAH! that sounds great

        Originally posted by CiKi90
        Aww, I'm sorry you had such a hard time on your trip, I know how tough having a difficult family member can be. I'm going through the same deal with my sister, as you know. Deciding to take a break from her was really the best decision I could have made, and I think it's wise to follow your gut on this one, so that you don't end up becoming overly stressed out about the whole situation. I'm trying to decide if I need to take a break from my mother and sister just because of recent events. It's hard, but at least we're not alone in feeling this way, you know? Big hugs your way!

        I'm so happy that you had such a great time with Bat. It is strange to meet people from online. I met my SO online 4 years ago, but I met a few others before picking him, so I have some experience with it ... not really good experiences, though lol! I feel like I would be in a really awkward place in my life, though, if I didn't communicate with anyone online, since I have such social anxiety sometimes. Slowly, I'm getting out of the shyness habit.
        I know you know where I'm coming from <3 Thanks for your kind words. I'm not really sure what to do - I'm not in a bad way myself, but I am sick of listening to her complaining all the time. I guess I feel under appreciated cos she just vents and doesn't realise how much I give her.

        Speaking of social anxiety: when I was a teenager I used to suffer from that really badly, to the point where I was afraid to go outside. It's part of the reason I took so many drugs in my later teens to mid twenties: I couldn't function socially without them. I started working on it though from early twenties and now I'm great socially: I'm really relaxed, and I love meeting new interesting people. So it's definitely something that can be overcome, you know?

        I read about your internet dating things before - wasn't one guy a werewolf?! ROFL

        Originally posted by ombat View Post
        I didn't realize you had such serious, deep seated issues with your mom. Your struggles with ED make a lot of sense now. If you grew up constantly being berated for who you were, it stands to reason that you would find it difficult to love yourself and try to change yourself in any way that you could, or in ways that were perceived to be better, or maybe you were even punishing yourself because you believed all of the things she told you. Spending so much time in fear is so harmful. You've been under stress for a great deal of time and will take much to heal. I think you're on the right track with self love.

        EDIT: ALSO, I know you are at your highest weight ever, but that doesn't mean you weigh too much. I truly think that you look fantastic. I know that won't change your mind, but I have to say it anyway. Nobody who saw you that day in your cute skirt, jacket, and jewelry and saw you flash your pretty smile would give a second thought to your weight. <3
        Thanks Emma <3 I always appreciate your insights. It definitely played a huge role in how I feel about myself, but there was even more to it than that: family stuff was very complicated, and then I had bad things happen that were completely separate to all that. I was so damaged for such a long time, and when I look at myself now I can't believe how far I've come.

        And thank you for the compliment

        Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
        I met Pebbles67 (from here on MDA) last year just before Thanksgiving! It was exactly as you described. My fiancÚ and I met someone from World of Warcraft when we vacationed in Seattle. We met up for drinks and food. It was fun and it seemed like everyone had a good time, but I guess she didn't like us that much because we never heard from her again! I also online-dated someone when I was 16. That was a mess. He had/has an obsession with me that lasted for many years =\.
        Originally posted by brookesam View Post
        Ok, I've got to know... Who brought the envelopes of gelatin?!

        Do share some of your internet dating stories!

        I'm on pof.com... nothing interesting going on there. MDA is the first forum I've posted on.
        Haha, it was me! I had just done my American grocery shopping when I went to meet her.

        POF - noooooooooooooooooo!!!! I think that's one of the worst sites.... some really dodgy characters on there! In terms of free sites OK Cupid is much better. If I were to do it again I think I'd just go on a paid site though, as a lot of people on the free ones aren't for real.

        Worst experiences: someone who got obsessed with me and ended up stalking me... even went so far as to create a false identity of someone I knew of to try and find out more about me; a guy who lied about his age (by 10 years); a guy who cried three times on the first (and only) date. Fun times...!

        Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
        I met Pebbles67 (from here on MDA) last year just before Thanksgiving! It was exactly as you described. My fiancÚ and I met someone from World of Warcraft when we vacationed in Seattle. We met up for drinks and food. It was fun and it seemed like everyone had a good time, but I guess she didn't like us that much because we never heard from her again! I also online-dated someone when I was 16. That was a mess. He had/has an obsession with me that lasted for many years =\.
        That's so cool! I have the feeling that I'm going to end up meeting a lot more of my MDA friends once I move to the States

        I also had a stalker from internet dating (see above). I think in some way the internet just fuels those kinds of tendencies in people...
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sauerKraut View Post
          Thank you! I've never been much of a "forum" person, but I'm willing to give technology a chance I might even start my own journal !

          Oh you're not being unimaginative, Krautland should stand for Germany but I'm from Switzerland.... I figured that's close enough! (somehow Cheeseland sounded too funny). Oh, I totally share your love for California (and The Cure ) I'm very "weather sensitive", my mood is totally conditioned by how much sun there is, and I found Cali to have the perfect balance. If there was such a place in Europe, I'd be there (Spain does not cut it for me) I lived in London and as much as I love the city, I had to get out of there after a while!!
          I've actually never had such a long forum life prior to this! There were a few forums I used to frequent, but it only lasted max 6 months. But this forum keeps challenging me and my views, so I'm still here

          Ha, was making sure "Krautland" didn't refer to some kind of fermented food fetish. Not that there's anything wrong with that

          And YES - you're so on the money with Cali. I think Southern CA might be a bit too hot, but central is just about perfect. SF is marginally too cold, but I was told that Oakland and Berkley are about 5 degrees warmer, so if I move over I think it will be to either of those.

          So do you still live in Switzerland? I've only been there once. If I spoke the language, France would be the place I'd live in Europe. Poland is also amazing, but I'm half Polish so maybe I'm biased Outside of Europe, Cape town is amazing, and very similar to CA in climate and landscape. I've been living in London for nearly four years, and I've reached the end of my time there for sure...
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • @Yoga

            When I created the account I was eating probiotics...but honestly, I just HATE them, especially Sauerkrauts!!

            I'm not living in Switzerland now, I'm a bit of a nomad, still looking for a place where I can settle for a while! It's actually quite beautiful, especially the italian part...but it does get boring if you're younger... it's very unfortunate that London has such a horrible weather, really. I wonder, the british empire owned half of the world until a short time ago, they could have relocated the capital in some cool caribbean island! ... I've gotta say, other than southern Cali, my favorite place would be Tel Aviv (if I knew the language)... that city is just great, and the people so laid back. Pretty amazing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              Thanks for the hugs! You're totally right, and I feel the same. This holiday just showed me how superficial the "getting on" really is though. It's fine so long as I'm babying her, but once I stop doing that, things fall apart again.

              It's sad cos' it seems most parents don't realise that if they want to have good relationships with their kids they also need to compromise. My mum just didn't come from that kind of generation - she believes she children should treat their parents with total obedience and respect. Which probably most generation of parents have been like til now! Is it changing, or am I just young?

              My husband is always saying that children are the only ones who truly know if their parents parenting techniques were successful or not. Therefore it is ridiculous for them to ever tell us how to raise our children or complain about how we turned out. If we do things they don't like, well they raised us! If I do something with my children they don't like, well I know how their methods turned out, so if I choose not to do the same it is for good reason, they can't possibly convince me to do as they did when I, the product, know that it failed.
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sauerKraut View Post
                @Yoga

                When I created the account I was eating probiotics...but honestly, I just HATE them, especially Sauerkrauts!!

                I'm not living in Switzerland now, I'm a bit of a nomad, still looking for a place where I can settle for a while! It's actually quite beautiful, especially the italian part...but it does get boring if you're younger... it's very unfortunate that London has such a horrible weather, really. I wonder, the british empire owned half of the world until a short time ago, they could have relocated the capital in some cool caribbean island! ... I've gotta say, other than southern Cali, my favorite place would be Tel Aviv (if I knew the language)... that city is just great, and the people so laid back. Pretty amazing.
                Haha - I grew up with sauerkraut so I actually don't mind it!

                I actually think that the reason the British went to conquer so much of the world was because there's nothing more motivating than the desire to escape from shitty weather

                I did the nomad thing for quite a few years too, and now I just want to put down roots, but it's impossible unless you're in the right place! So the nomad keeps searching...

                I've barely seen any of the Middle East (spent about a month in Dubai, if that counts!) but Israel and Iran are up there as places I'm really drawn to. More so Israel, I think. I've also always had a fascination with Mexico, but I was only there once, briefly. Part of the attraction to Cali is the proximity to Mexico - would be much easier to explore it with CA as a base!

                Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                My husband is always saying that children are the only ones who truly know if their parents parenting techniques were successful or not. Therefore it is ridiculous for them to ever tell us how to raise our children or complain about how we turned out. If we do things they don't like, well they raised us! If I do something with my children they don't like, well I know how their methods turned out, so if I choose not to do the same it is for good reason, they can't possibly convince me to do as they did when I, the product, know that it failed.
                I hear you. I think the best way to know if you've done a good parenting job is if you have a good relationship with your kids! True respect is born out of love, not drilled into someone.

                I think part of the problem is that people either emulate what their parents did, or else they react against it, and end up doing as much damage in a completely different dimension. Like, my sister had an even worse time with our mum than I did, but she's a complete walkover with her kids because she is afraid of damaging them the way our mum damaged her. But you can do equal amounts of damage by giving too much.

                It's a minefield, which is why I don't really want to have kids.
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  Thanks for the long post Diene! I'm sorry that you had such similar problems with your mum. You reminded me that from a very young age I used to fantasise about running away. I used to pack my things into a bag (usually some fancy dress clothes and a few My Little Ponies)and hide the bag in our garden, waiting for my chance. She always caught me..!

                  How was your mum about privacy? That was another thing about my mum: I was her property, and I wasn't allowed to have any boundaries. My room was never my sacred space: even as a teenager she would go through my drawers. When I started smoking I used to have to hide my cigarettes in the garden, wrapped in a plastic bag...!

                  The pretending thing is quite hard cos' I'm such an honest person, and I hate the thought of one of the closest relationships in my life being based on pleasantries. I also hate the pressure of having to be the model daughter, but this is the only way I've found to genuinely get on with her.


                  So glad you liked it! It moves me too, especially if I sing it.

                  And YEAH! that sounds great
                  You played with My Little Ponies as a kid? I did too! They were my favorite toys. I was never into Barbie.

                  Yeah, my mom didn't really respect my privacy either. I don't think she became super paranoid and actively searched my room until I was older though (which was exactly when you didn't want your parents to search your room). ARGHHH--Just thinking about it now makes me want to strangle her.

                  I guess I see her so infrequently (literally, once every couple of years now) that it doesn't really bother me. Talking on the phone every once in a while isn't so bad. It's those in-person moments that are most difficult.

                  I think you should sing it for us. You have such a great singing voice! I can't sing on key to save my life, haha!

                  I'd like to experience real online dating at some point, you know, set up a profile and go on lots of dates. The one time I went out with someone I met online, I met him on craigslist (admittedly not the best way to meet people, but I did get a non-creepy vibe from him and he wasn't creepy).

                  My journal

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                  • Wow, I wish I were brave enough to be a nomad. But I've always liked to settle in one place--I'm pretty sedentary, never been much of a wanderer or traveler. That sounds really boring, and I wish I were different... I guess it's because I found my place so young--I moved to Berkeley when I was 18 and just never wanted to leave. Leaving was a stupid mistake (but at the time I didn't want to be one of those Californians who just never leave the state and never experience living elsewhere so when I had the opportunity to move to the east coast for grad school, I did).

                    I've never been to the Middle East, but I've always been drawn to Turkey. Istanbul is a place that I've always wanted to visit.

                    I have the same general feeling about parenting and having kids. Sometimes it feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Part of the reason I don't really want to have kids is cuz I'm afraid that I'd screw them up. And I think that it's possible that just being so afraid of screwing up will set you up for failure.

                    My journal

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by diene View Post
                      You played with My Little Ponies as a kid? I did too! They were my favorite toys. I was never into Barbie.

                      Yeah, my mom didn't really respect my privacy either. I don't think she became super paranoid and actively searched my room until I was older though (which was exactly when you didn't want your parents to search your room). ARGHHH--Just thinking about it now makes me want to strangle her.
                      Here's something to put a smile on your face



                      Just watching that brings back the memories of how much I loved that cartoon! I would actually dream about flying through the sky on little ponies... Did you happen to like horse riding too?!

                      Haha - what did your mum find?! I remember the feeling of complete panic when my mum nearly found my cigarettes. I was 14, and I'd hidden them in my pink knitting bag (...when two world's collide). She was going through my wardrobe right in front of me and started to pull out bag and in total desperation I pulled it off her and just held it to my chest. Luckily I'd also hidden a t-shirt I'd bought without her consent in there, so when she made me open the bag I just showed her that... After that I started hiding my cigs in the garden

                      But for me the worst thing about her looking through my drawers was that it wasn't out of paranoia - it was cos' she believed that, as her child, I didn't deserve any privacy. She was so controlling. And unlike you I kept getting into relationships with really controlling guys til I finally saw the light.

                      Originally posted by diene View Post
                      Wow, I wish I were brave enough to be a nomad. But I've always liked to settle in one place--I'm pretty sedentary, never been much of a wanderer or traveler. That sounds really boring, and I wish I were different... I guess it's because I found my place so young--I moved to Berkeley when I was 18 and just never wanted to leave. Leaving was a stupid mistake (but at the time I didn't want to be one of those Californians who just never leave the state and never experience living elsewhere so when I had the opportunity to move to the east coast for grad school, I did).

                      I have the same general feeling about parenting and having kids. Sometimes it feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Part of the reason I don't really want to have kids is cuz I'm afraid that I'd screw them up. And I think that it's possible that just being so afraid of screwing up will set you up for failure.
                      It all depends if you are sedentary out of fearfulness, or because you want to put down roots! Some people are Oaks, and some are Dandelion seeds that need to drift awhile before finding a place to grow. But some people are nomads out of fear too, so both extremes can be bad.

                      Yeah, completely my fear too. Although now it's shifted more towards just being too self centred and not wanting the commitment.
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

                      Comment


                      • I think as parents we can only do the best we can with the knowledge and skills we have. If we are open and honest people who are willing to learn, grow, and acknowledge when we screw up, then our children have less of a chance of having major issues to deal with. However I think all children have some issue(s) from their childhood that they need to work through as an adult.

                        I had a horrible childhood. I was the family scapegoat and blamed for everything.

                        When I had children I vowed not to do what was done to me. I succeeded for the most part. My ex also had a bad childhood. So, our children did not get to adulthood unscathed.

                        I have had years of therapy. My children have also had that opportunity. I have repeatedly apologized for my part in their issues- something I wished my parents could have done.

                        They know I have their best interest at heart. They can (and have) come to me and tell me anything.

                        They have said recently that while they hated some of the rules they had to do as kids/teens-- be home for dinner most of the time, help clean, do yard work,etc.-- as adults they can now see the value.

                        I also think children, as adults, have some responsibility for the relationship they have with their parents. While I know first hand how hard, or impossible, it is to discuss problems we have with our parents, they can not do better if they don't know there is a problem.

                        Again, my first hand experience has taught me that speaking up may not change anything but it can be emotionally freeing.It also helps with being able to set and keep boundaries.

                        Comment


                        • Yoyo, I honestly believe that your experiences will help shape you into a great parent. My mom was treated poorly by her parents and often neglected. Like Marcadav, she vowed to be nothing like her mother and she kept her vow. She has been a pillar of strength for me and, knowing you, you will be the same for your children. You are too self aware and knowing to repeat your parents' mistakes.
                          Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
                            I think as parents we can only do the best we can with the knowledge and skills we have. If we are open and honest people who are willing to learn, grow, and acknowledge when we screw up, then our children have less of a chance of having major issues to deal with. However I think all children have some issue(s) from their childhood that they need to work through as an adult.

                            I had a horrible childhood. I was the family scapegoat and blamed for everything.

                            When I had children I vowed not to do what was done to me. I succeeded for the most part. My ex also had a bad childhood. So, our children did not get to adulthood unscathed.

                            I have had years of therapy. My children have also had that opportunity. I have repeatedly apologized for my part in their issues- something I wished my parents could have done.

                            They know I have their best interest at heart. They can (and have) come to me and tell me anything.

                            They have said recently that while they hated some of the rules they had to do as kids/teens-- be home for dinner most of the time, help clean, do yard work,etc.-- as adults they can now see the value.

                            I also think children, as adults, have some responsibility for the relationship they have with their parents. While I know first hand how hard, or impossible, it is to discuss problems we have with our parents, they can not do better if they don't know there is a problem.

                            Again, my first hand experience has taught me that speaking up may not change anything but it can be emotionally freeing.It also helps with being able to set and keep boundaries.
                            Marcadav, thanks for your input - it's great to get a parent's perspective.

                            I think the key with successful upbringing is fair, reasonable boundaries. Kids should know there's a line that can't be crossed, and parents should allow their kids a certain amount of autonomy. I think even household chores can be taken in their stride if the kids have a delegated time to do them: the annoying part is just being expected to do things at the whim of the parents.

                            I totally agree that, once you get to a certain age, the relationship is two way. Initially kids are parasites on the parents, but hopefully by adulthood that evolves into symbiosis. Unfortunately it often doesn't, and parents then use what they've given the kids in the past as an excuse to be parasites back on them.

                            Personal maturity is essential for any healthy relationship though, and it sounds like you have this. I've tried to talk to my mum countless times through the years, and its never worked. But then again, successful communication is often about timing. I could try talking to her when she's in a good mood...

                            Originally posted by ombat View Post
                            Yoyo, I honestly believe that your experiences will help shape you into a great parent. My mom was treated poorly by her parents and often neglected. Like Marcadav, she vowed to be nothing like her mother and she kept her vow. She has been a pillar of strength for me and, knowing you, you will be the same for your children. You are too self aware and knowing to repeat your parents' mistakes.
                            Well, thank you We'll see what happens though... at this rate haven't kids doesn't appear to be an option anyway.
                            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                            - Ray Peat

                            Comment


                            • In case anyone missed it on Ombat's journal, here's a pic from our real-life meet up



                              Is that what I think it is...?



                              Luckily we were in a sushi bar. Japanese people tend to have whacky senses of humour so they didn't even think we were odd...
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • Lovely picture. Too bad I can't see your faces, but it's understandable. Lemme guess, you are in the red sweater? WTF, it must have been really chilly.

                                Re. parenting. I've had similar experience with my mom, altho she has never hit me in the later teenage years of my childhood.
                                I've always felt closer to my dad. Now me and my mom are pretty much estranged. The fact that I live some distance away also adds to it. You know how some women have that "friendship" with their moms, I've never had that and many times I've found myself missing out when I've wanted to share something very personal with someone.

                                Now I have a boy of my own and don't plan on having more children, so there it is. No mother-daughter experience for me in the future either.

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