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  • #76
    I loved your poem.
    I am sorry for your sadness.
    I too once fled a house in the night. I was 19.
    I am 62 and still base the success or failure of my life on what the scale says.
    Why is this the important marker when life has so many other Vibrant successes to focus on.
    Sending you hugs and realizing I should give myself a few as well.
    Keep writing. It can only be healing.

    edited: darn autocorrect!

    Comment


    • #77
      So whats next? If this isnt working, its ok. Personally i dont think that it is for everyone anyway. There are two things i think need takin care of. One, you need to get checked for hypothyroid. With your temps how they are and other problems, you might have it and no amount of food will help. Two, do you ever consider seeing a counselor for your problems? It might help to talk to someone qualified, although it can be tricky to find the right person.

      And although i think what you are doing can certainly work for some, i see things in your diet that may be giving you problems even though your going in the right direction. Based on Peats work (which i and derp among others have used with great success) you are taking in way to much protein, unsaturated fat and starch. Maybe you could try a more peat inspired diet. Diet meaning you eat for your goal of fat loss and thyroid health. Its not a bad thing to try and lose fat, its just been when you go to an extreme to do it.

      Oh and not that it really matters but i still feel different from most in regards to emotion. Im not denying i dont have any, i have much emotion for my son for example. I was also in a househould with very loving and emotional parents, no manly man complex at all. Still i dont use emotion like others do to drive me. Im great in an emergency because i am able to think logically without freaking out. I dont greave, or havnt yet even though some close people have died (knock on wood). I dont miss people even years seperated. I could easily live seperated from society when other would go mad. I dont know, like i said it doesnt matter, just giving my personal observations, i dont feel that i repress anything or fight to be stoic or whatever, some of what most normal people have is just not there for me.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by calee View Post
        I loved your poem.
        I am sorry for your sadness.
        I too once fled a house in the night. I was 19.
        I am 62 and still base the success or failure of my life on what the scale says.
        Why is this the important marker when life has so many other Vibrant successes to focus on.
        Sending you hugs and realizing I should give myself a few as well.
        Keep writing. It can only be healing.

        edited: darn autocorrect!
        Thanks so much for posting Calee I hear you on there being so much more to life that we could use as measures of success. What I'm realising through this journalling is the extent to which weight is about control. It's the one thing that we have complete control over, and if we fail at this, we must be failures.

        And you're right - the journalling is helping - a lot Mostly thanks to the support and well wishes from people like you.

        Hugs back!
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Zach View Post
          So whats next? If this isnt working, its ok. Personally i dont think that it is for everyone anyway. There are two things i think need takin care of. One, you need to get checked for hypothyroid. With your temps how they are and other problems, you might have it and no amount of food will help. Two, do you ever consider seeing a counselor for your problems? It might help to talk to someone qualified, although it can be tricky to find the right person.

          And although i think what you are doing can certainly work for some, i see things in your diet that may be giving you problems even though your going in the right direction. Based on Peats work (which i and derp among others have used with great success) you are taking in way to much protein, unsaturated fat and starch. Maybe you could try a more peat inspired diet. Diet meaning you eat for your goal of fat loss and thyroid health. Its not a bad thing to try and lose fat, its just been when you go to an extreme to do it.

          Oh and not that it really matters but i still feel different from most in regards to emotion. Im not denying i dont have any, i have much emotion for my son for example. I was also in a househould with very loving and emotional parents, no manly man complex at all. Still i dont use emotion like others do to drive me. Im great in an emergency because i am able to think logically without freaking out. I dont greave, or havnt yet even though some close people have died (knock on wood). I dont miss people even years seperated. I could easily live seperated from society when other would go mad. I dont know, like i said it doesnt matter, just giving my personal observations, i dont feel that i repress anything or fight to be stoic or whatever, some of what most normal people have is just not there for me.
          Thanks Zach I'm not going to jump ship just yet... Yesterday was a bad day, but I do feel this is at least helping me psychologically with the ED. I'm not fearing food anymore. And I'm starting to understand the queues of my appetite. Plus I'm really just eating to appetite... The alternative is going back to constantly depriving myself. I can't do that anymore. I have to see where this takes me.

          I'll keep going with it at least til I go back to London. I'll prob stay with my parents for another 9 days, so that will bring me to nearly a month. My junk food binge in Dec-Jan put me off junk food, or at least had moderated my attitude to it. My hope is that this experiment will do the same with real food...

          I'll definitely get my thyroid checked when I'm back Another Peat-inspired MDA user pmed me the other day and told me about Broda Barnes - have you read her? Apparently she draws a link between hypo and EDs.

          Regarding diet, what do you think I could change? I thought was I'm eating is quite Peat-inspired... I take sugar in my tea, eat bone broth, coconut, carrots, shell fish, a lot of fruit, avoid poultry and pork (apart from this week being at home with my folks), don't eat nuts... I know he's not keen on fish for PUFA but I really struggle to believe that it's bad for us. I also know I eat too much meat, but I'm just eating what I crave... The starch was part of the refeeding, but I'm attributing the improved sleep to that, cos I always ate a lot of fruit, but I've been low-starch for years. I've cut back on dairy a lot cos' I got addicted to it (long story, with a theory attached!), now I just have milk in my coffee plus have yogurt or a bit of cheese maybe three times a week.

          Thanks for the suggestion about the counselor. I am very open to it, and maybe I'll go back at some point (I've already been for a lot of therapy) but it would be a matter of finding the right person. My last therapist was great, but I outgrew her. Strangely, right now this journal is giving me more clarity than I ever got through talking! I told two therapists, plus plenty of friends, about the experience above, and I never got any kind of release from the retelling, but when I wrote it this morning it gave me something. I think the journalling is superior in some way, because it's helping me connect all the dots without giving back story or being chronological.

          Regarding emotion: well, I can't say cos' I don't know you in person, but I do know that many people don't want to feel intense emotions because they're afraid of letting go. Romantic relationships, and particularly children, are main areas that people allow themselves to experience love. I honestly think that a lot of people have children because they want to be free to love someone completely, without fear or rationality. (Not saying thats why you did! But you get what I mean). Obviously these are all big generalisations too - everyone's different after all. Some people are able to balance their head and their hearts. But I've met a lot of people who rejected their regular lives and I did a whole study into whether they were running away from something. Conclusion: Many, but not all, were.
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • #80
            Interesting stuff. It certainly was not my idea to have a kid, im lucky his mom was so adamant about keeping him!

            Anyway about your diet. I will hold off any major critiques i see until you have decided your path. I dont want to give you even more things to worry about! I think you are definitely on the right track and your case is not a typical one so maybe just getting past the hurdle of using food as a weapon against yourself is whats really important. In my case, using RRARF got me past a couple barriers as well but it certainly was not the end and it took several more years before i figured whats best for me. Only reason i try to help is to try and cut time off of your recovery but sometimes the only option is to try and fail many times before you succeed. The experience is neccessary.

            Comment


            • #81
              There's a lot going on here that I feel unable to comment on - I'm happy to churn on my own history, but not that of others. However, can I point you in the direction of CaptainAwkward.com and www.yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com in different ways both might help you or give you an external perception. ETA both sites might cause triggers, the Captain less than Yes Means Yes (which is good, but challenging, reading).

              What you write about weight being an external marker of internal effedupness resonates very loudly. I resent other people being able to SEE I'm not coping; however, they nearly never notice! Never underestimate other people's self-absorption. (I know: pot talking about kettle.)

              ETA also: sorry, of course, sending hugs too. What you experienced at that party was a gross violation of your physical integrity AND NOT YOUR FAULT. As I seem to be saying a lot recently - be gentle with yourself.
              Last edited by badgergirl; 03-30-2013, 12:55 PM.
              I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

              Comment


              • #82
                Big Hugs to you. I think it is great that you are journaling in a public way right now. It really gets it out of your body on a different level. I've been through a similar experience twice and understand how it can create a desire to gain control over your body as a result. The truth is though, that food going in or not going in couldn't have changed what happened or prevent it in the future. They are truly separate in the physical world.

                I was sad to hear you say you might stop, but very pleased to read that you'll keep going now. I would never want you to keep doing something that is truly not working for you but do remember this is supposed to be about working with your body like a friend, not manhandling it into submission to get what you want out of it. Put that way it seems this should be the appropriate response to what happened to you, otherwise we are almost worse than they are in doing to ourselves what we hate them for doing to us. Sorry, if that was inappropriate. I do send big hugs across the ocean, one woman to the next.
                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  Interesting stuff. It certainly was not my idea to have a kid, im lucky his mom was so adamant about keeping him!

                  Anyway about your diet. I will hold off any major critiques i see until you have decided your path. I dont want to give you even more things to worry about! I think you are definitely on the right track and your case is not a typical one so maybe just getting past the hurdle of using food as a weapon against yourself is whats really important. In my case, using RRARF got me past a couple barriers as well but it certainly was not the end and it took several more years before i figured whats best for me. Only reason i try to help is to try and cut time off of your recovery but sometimes the only option is to try and fail many times before you succeed. The experience is neccessary.
                  Truer words were ne'er spoke Zach. I'm one of those idiots who only seems to learn through mistakes But seriously, it really does help to have your insight and knowledge, and I appreciate you sharing it. It's not only the journalling that's helping me - it's the support.

                  Do you think RRARF boosted your metabolism and helped you sort your thyroid, or was that Ray peat?

                  Re. the diet.. ha, PUFA is my new food phobia. That's why I was trying to relax and just eat the delicious pork pate my mum made, but of course I went too far Btw, most of the figures in the food tracker are overprojections cos' I really don't measure or count what I eat. I know vaguely what sizes things are and then I round it up, sometimes considerably. But then there's things I forget to input, so I reckon it balances out.
                  Last edited by YogaBare; 03-30-2013, 05:09 PM.
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by badgergirl View Post
                    There's a lot going on here that I feel unable to comment on - I'm happy to churn on my own history, but not that of others. However, can I point you in the direction of CaptainAwkward.com and www.yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com in different ways both might help you or give you an external perception. ETA both sites might cause triggers, the Captain less than Yes Means Yes (which is good, but challenging, reading).

                    What you write about weight being an external marker of internal effedupness resonates very loudly. I resent other people being able to SEE I'm not coping; however, they nearly never notice! Never underestimate other people's self-absorption. (I know: pot talking about kettle.)

                    ETA also: sorry, of course, sending hugs too. What you experienced at that party was a gross violation of your physical integrity AND NOT YOUR FAULT. As I seem to be saying a lot recently - be gentle with yourself.
                    Hey Badgergirl, thanks for the links Unfortunately the yesmeanyes is waaay too triggering, but not for my personal reasons. A girl from my social circle was raped and murdered last Spetember, and I still can't really deal with those stories. Actually - just realised you're in Melbourne: you probably heard it in the news. 10,000 people marched for her. I was at her wedding.

                    Back to the weight thing - yeah, the funny thing is that people only see when you're doing well! That's when we attract attention and validation: not when we really need it. Like attracts like.

                    Thanks for the hugs I feel guilty for writing about it and receiving compassion in return - feel like it's not something I should share (even though I'm predicting that it's just the first back story I'll be writing down). Hugs back!
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Yes. I remember that story only too well. I'm so sorry for you (and her). The whole city mourned, truly.

                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      Hey Badgergirl, thanks for the links Unfortunately the yesmeanyes is waaay too triggering, but not for my personal reasons. A girl from my social circle was raped and murdered last Spetember, and I still can't really deal with those stories. Actually - just realised you're in Melbourne: you probably heard it in the news. 10,000 people marched for her. I was at her wedding.

                      Back to the weight thing - yeah, the funny thing is that people only see when you're doing well! That's when we attract attention and validation: not when we really need it. Like attracts like.

                      Thanks for the hugs I feel guilty for writing about it and receiving compassion in return - feel like it's not something I should share (even though I'm predicting that it's just the first back story I'll be writing down). Hugs back!
                      I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                        Big Hugs to you. I think it is great that you are journaling in a public way right now. It really gets it out of your body on a different level. I've been through a similar experience twice and understand how it can create a desire to gain control over your body as a result. The truth is though, that food going in or not going in couldn't have changed what happened or prevent it in the future. They are truly separate in the physical world.

                        I was sad to hear you say you might stop, but very pleased to read that you'll keep going now. I would never want you to keep doing something that is truly not working for you but do remember this is supposed to be about working with your body like a friend, not manhandling it into submission to get what you want out of it. Put that way it seems this should be the appropriate response to what happened to you, otherwise we are almost worse than they are in doing to ourselves what we hate them for doing to us. Sorry, if that was inappropriate. I do send big hugs across the ocean, one woman to the next.
                        Paleomom, I'm so sorry that you also went through things like that. It's absolutely shocking how many women do. Unfortunately it also wasn't my only experience, but it was the most raw because the guy was a close friend.

                        Boundaries have been a big issue for me in my life, and it's made me confuse where other people end and I start. I think this has translated to having a very limited sense of my own self, beyond my intellect. That's partly where the food comes in - it arouses a heightened state of emotion, and makes me feel my body.

                        Anyway, yes I'm going to keep going with this. You'll see from next my journal entry: today was a good day It's pretty nice not to limit calories or deprive myself of fruit or juices whenever I want them. I am starting to feel skeptical though if this really resets the metabolism...? Have there been any other changes for you? (I think the thread is dead btw )

                        I really appreciate your continued support, and I'm so happy that we're doing this at the same time.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Well i was really lucky because at the time i was at my lowest doing full on carnivore and i had the side pain i thought was a hernia but it was caused by the diet. Anyway i somehow recalled Matt Stone telling Richard nickoley that he was hypothyroid and i decided to check his site out. I read for like hours and immediately went from years of low carb straight to RRARFing, grains, sugar and everything.

                          So it totally destroyed my healthy eating and carb fearing mentality. And yes it almost inmediately made my hormones and thyroid shoot up. I actually lost weight immediatly like within a few days, going from 1600-2000 cals all meat and eggs to upwards of 5000 of anything. Pretty crazy thinking about it. But it only worked for so long and the. I had to adjust and tweak and backtrack.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Zach View Post
                            Well i was really lucky because at the time i was at my lowest doing full on carnivore and i had the side pain i thought was a hernia but it was caused by the diet. Anyway i somehow recalled Matt Stone telling Richard nickoley that he was hypothyroid and i decided to check his site out. I read for like hours and immediately went from years of low carb straight to RRARFing, grains, sugar and everything.

                            So it totally destroyed my healthy eating and carb fearing mentality. And yes it almost inmediately made my hormones and thyroid shoot up. I actually lost weight immediatly like within a few days, going from 1600-2000 cals all meat and eggs to upwards of 5000 of anything. Pretty crazy thinking about it. But it only worked for so long and the. I had to adjust and tweak and backtrack.
                            That's amazing. And insane that you lost weight! What do you mean by "it only worked for so long"?

                            I guess the fact that I'm gaining probably means this isn't boosting my metabolic rate. Maybe cos' your thyroid problems were caused by diet, whereas mine might be genetic, or else just from a much longer period of disordered eating and malnutrition...
                            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                            - Ray Peat

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              E.M.T.W.L

                              Entry Fifteen: Way-hay - two weeks!


                              Amazing what a difference a day makes. I woke up this morning, feeling better and brighter. Today was a good day.

                              Sleep:
                              Eight hours!!! Yowza. And, I slept like the dead: no tossing or turning, just solid, unconscious sleep.

                              I must do some kind of table that sees if there's any correlation between what I eat and how I sleep.

                              Food

                              Screen Shot 2013-03-31 at 09.05.03.jpg

                              So today was the first big dip in calories - probably 1000 less than what I usually eat.

                              Right now, I eat when I'm hungry: which thus far is consistently two huge meals, one medium meal, and several snacks. My usual practice (when I'm not restricting) is that I watch the clock, waiting for meal time. I'm militant about when I can eat, and I get panicky if I can't eat at those times: first thing in the morning, lunch time (12-1), and dinner time (5.30 - 6). (I'm sure that part of the reason I wake so early is because morning is "meal time"). If I have a hungry day I invariably start obsessing about food and end up overeating.

                              Last night something different happened. I was cooking dinner for my family (Goan Fish Curry.....MMMMM!) and we were eating later than I normally would. I felt the panicked feeling rising, but then something inside me clicked, and I knew I didn't have to eat as soon as possible: the food would be there whenever I was ready. I munched on carrots while I cooked, and then ate a generous, but pretty normal-sized meal. It almost seems like my body is starting to get the message that food is regular, consistent, and it's not a case of "eat-as-much-as-you-can-while-you-still-can". Is this what people mean by the body being in constant famine state?

                              I'm hoping that as the experiment carries on I'll stop being so controlled by meal timings, or needing to eat the second I wake up... And ideally my appetite will regulate and I won't need to snack every two hours. It feels abnormal how quickly I get hungry.

                              Other observations:
                              Skin brushing: Shed a lot of skin on my forehead and nose.

                              Girl stuff: TOM arrived today - one week early. My cycle has been three weeks for the last few weeks. Not sure what's going on there...

                              When I turned twenty I started getting my period every two weeks. I went for scans had found I had cysts on my ovaries, so I went on the pill. I came off it (about 7 years ago) and haven't been regular since. I've gone through long stretches where I didn't get it at all (3-4 months), and people always attributed it to my low weight (I didn't of course. What low weight?! ) but as soon as I started eating meat a few months ago it came back to a monthly cycle, and now I seem to be reverting back to where I was when I was 20...

                              Now that I think of it... at that time I was very thin, and vegetarian. My hair was falling out, so my boyfriend at the time convinced me to start eating meat again. That's pretty much when the frequent periods started to happen. I wonder if there's a correlation...

                              Anyway, was shocked that it arrived yest, cos' I had absolutely no cravings for anything! That must be good.

                              And at the end of the day:
                              After the big downer post of yesterday, this is definitely a step forward. While I'm not noticing any physical benefits (though my digestion seems to be sorting itself out and I think my energy is picking back up), I can't deny that something is happening on an unconscious level. Psychologically I'm feeling more "peace with food", which was my aim for the whole thing.

                              Early days. Very early days. And baby steps. But yeah. Feels like progress

                              90916486197050327_I3ck9mSc_f.jpg
                              Last edited by YogaBare; 04-13-2013, 02:57 AM.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                YB, I'm so happy to read that you had a better day.

                                Badger girl, they say that food is the only addiction that we wear openly to show the world. I've never been drawn to drugs or drink, gambling etc. but immediately after trauma at age 7 I took to sugar as my drug of choice. They world appeared much rosier with a sugar party happening in my mouth. Shortly thereafter, my life became about deprivation to try to conform to how a girl then woman, should look, which was not chubby, fat, fatter, obese, morbidly obese.

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