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  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
    I asked on the low body temp forum if anyone else had muscle pain when they started this process: one person got back to me and said no, and asked if I was sweating much or if it could be salt intake. What do you think?
    I don't know, I'm not sweating much now and my salt intake is the same as it usually is and I'm still having the muscle pain. I was sweating more for a bit and I also upped the salt intake for a bit, but mostly it has been the same as before I started all of this.
    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ombat View Post
      Are you basing this off of the last time you were at your current measurements, and presumably while trying to lose weight off of SAD? If so, then I bet it takes less time than that because your body is already much healthier than it was the last time you were trying to lose. Don't you think? Anyway, I agree. The last thing you want is to revert back to where you were before you started all of this.
      I was basing this off of my weight loss over the last few weeks. I've been averaging a half pound loss per week now while eating as much as my body wants (but not as much as I can ) It's a nice place to be, just slow.
      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cierra
        Your last journal entry was really interesting for me to read! I have a few opinions on various things that you discussed, though ...

        -- When you said you were having digestion issues, and then remarked about how much you were sweating during the night, experienced chapped lips, and have been recently noticing that you aren't peeing much, my first thought is that you're dehydrated. I'm not sure if this is true, but maybe your water/salt intake could be a bit low?
        -- If it is dehydration, that could possibly mean you are retaining water, which would explain the bloating and even the possible gain on your hips.
        -- I noticed that under "body" you have a subtitle of "fat." Don't you think that's a little bit harsh on yourself? I mean, just because you gain or lose an inch here or there doesn't mean that it's fat! I know I'm not one to speak about body image, however, maybe you could come up with a nicer term for yourself regarding measurements, just so that whenever you DO gain, it doesn't have to mean that you're getting fatter! You could be getting more muscular, or, as I said before, retaining fluids. Just a thought.

        I was also wondering if you read the thread "What I Gave Up" ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83345.html ) in relation to you feeling so intimidated by being social around people you consider to be thin and beautiful. I really connected with the article on a lot of levels, even though that kind of sucks. I was having a "fat day" recently, too, and was doing some research as to why, exactly, I feel "fat" when I'm not. It, of course, has to do with EDs, and I kind of found a bit of information that helped me a bit through the feelings. One of them were the studies and experiments showing what men honestly prefer in a woman, rather than what types of women were portrayed on television. Here's one: TheVine - New revealing figures - Life & pop culture, untangled
        I'm not sure if that makes you feel any better about your situation, but time after time, my SO tells me that it doesn't matter as much if you're very thin or have a few extra curves; what matters is, is that you're confident about what you've got! If you look healthy, and look happy, and are willing to let go and have fun (a topic that the "What I Gave Up" article touches on a lot) then that is definitely the most attractive. And, from what you've posted most recently, your warm glow and inviting smile to strangers around you is putting you in that category, for sure.

        Hope you had a great time on your night out on the town!
        Hey lady,

        Thanks for your suggestions I don't think I'm dehydrated - I'm drinking sooo many fluids atm and not peeing them out, so I'm guessing I'm absorbing them! And my hips did go down a bit, so I guess it's just bloat. The thing about bloating though - it still makes me bigger, and I remember teh days when bloating was three inches less on my hips Anyway.

        I'm a bit embarrassed now about my last two entries! I was actually being tongue-in-cheek when I wrote 'fat'., but you're right, it's totally harsh. I need to stop thinking of myself like that. As for all the beautiful people... jeez - insecure much YB?!

        Thank you - that article really does help.
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ombat View Post
          Gotcha. It's interesting how very not one-size-fits-all eating is. I would go absolutely bonkers eating that many meals a day :P Glad you found what works best for you.

          Alright... I almost couldn't tell if you were mocking or being serious here. If the latter, then: I thought this was exactly what we're trying to get away from! Case in point: it is impossible not to compare ourselves to others. I feel like the tiniest person ever with the exception of the three hours per week that I sit next to the anorexic girl in one of my classes. All of a sudden I look down at my thighs and think, "moo".

          The other day one of my closest friends, a male in his 40's, said to me, "You've gained weight. You look great. You look healthy. You looked like a twig before. It wasn't attractive. Now you look sexy." Honest to god this was a direct quote. And I don't even have boobs.

          And so not only would I like to concur with badgergirl, but I would like you to take a moment and think about what these women's lives are like. Don't you think they are restricting in order to look that way? Don't you think they are always hungry? Don't you think they are tired and brittle and their hair is about to fall out? I know this isn't a great argument considering you (and well, most of us, me included) kind of feel like crap right now, but don't you think you have a bit more peace of mind than these women right now? And isn't that what matters? Don't get me wrong - I feel exactly as you do - but I think we can step back and look at what we've gained (poor choice of words).

          Have you read any of the articles by Stefani Ruper? She talks a lot about fertility, eating disorders, and is an almost nauseating advocate of self love (I kid... sort of) but this is one of my favorite blog posts of all time. I would tell you how much this moved me, but then I would have to kill you.

          Edit: Sorry, I engaged myself so much there that I forgot to say that if you want to try "restricting" then by all means go ahead. Like a said a little while ago I have been eating less as well, but only so much that I am not hungry. There is probably an amount of food less than what you're eating now that will still satiate you. Try to find that but don't go under it. What do you think?
          Hey Ombat, thank you for the sweet message! As I just said to Cierra, I'm a bit embarrassed about writing all that... bloody hell, Insecure Street! London has not been good for my confidence. It's so competitive in every way. But you know what, this experiment has really just made me think fuck it. I still have (big) moments of panic, but in general life is too short to stress about it for long. What sucks is wardrobe limitations - I love tight jeans and sparkely tops, but now I'm limited to skirts and dresses.

          I was tossing around the idea of cutting cals, but I don't think I can face it right now... maybe at the end of the month, when things have settled a bit... it's all too mad right now. Are you planning to cut, or go with the flow?

          Thanks for that article! I actually found this one this morning, which I loved and thought was beautiful. I really like Matt Stone's attitude. http://180degreehealth.com/2013/04/t...-trouble-spots
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • R.B.T

            Entry Six: [rant]

            Today was a disaster.com.

            Sleep:
            Not good. Three hours last night!!! 1am - 4am.

            BUT - something positive came out of it: I found an amazing article that gives further credence to the Adrenals-Bodytemp-Sleep connection. It also supports the hypothyroidism possibility.
            The speed of the pulse is partly determined by adrenaline, and many hypothyroid people compensate with very high adrenaline production. Knowing that hypothyroid people are susceptible to hypoglycemia, and that hypoglycemia increases adrenaline, I found that many people had normal (and sometimes faster than average) pulse rates when they woke up in the morning, and when they got hungry.
            My pulse usually feels like it's pounding, even though it's close to 75bpm. When I wake at night it's usually with a jolt and a racing heart. I get low blood sugar. High fat people would say it's cos I'm a "sugar burner". This makes more sense.
            But hypoglycemia also tends to decrease the conversion of T4 to T3, so heat production often decreases when a person is hungry. First, their fingers, toes, and nose will get cold, because adrenalin, or adrenergic sympathetic nervous activity, will increase to keep the brain and heart at a normal temperature, by reducing circulation to the skin and extremities.
            I noted before that my temperature drops if I don't eat Yes - my nose starts to run, and suddenly my socks are wet. I guess this explains why I sweat so much too!
            Despite the temperature-regulating effect of adrenalin, the reduced heat production resulting from decreased T3 will make a person susceptible to hypothermia if the environment is cool. Blood sugar falls at night, and the body relies on the glucose stored in the liver as glycogen for energy, and hypothyroid people store very little sugar. As a result, adrenalin and cortisol begin to rise almost as soon as a person goes to bed, and in hypothyroid people, they rise very high, with the adrenalin usually peaking around 1 or 2 A.M., and the cortisol peaking around dawn; the high cortisol raises blood sugar as morning approaches, and allows adrenalin to decline. Some people wake up during the adrenalin peak with a pounding heart, and have trouble getting back to sleep unless they eat something
            Bingo! Once I wake up I generally can't get back to sleep unless I eat. When I first discovered Primal I thought it was hypogleceimic insomnia, which made sense, but this takes the theory one step further.

            The mistake I made last night was that I went to bed a bit hungry, and not as warm as usual (even though I was wearing as many clothes. Possibly the hunger dropped my temperature. The article quoted was from Ray Peat, of course Full article here.

            Temperature:
            I'm increasingly skeptical if oral temp should be the only one I measure. Heat rushes to my head. A few times I've been shivering, with ice cold hands, feet, and a body temp in the 97s but my oral has been ideal. Peat thinks that the temp of extremities should be measured. I don't know if that's the ideal way, but I do think I need to take a range of temps into consideration.

            Energy and Mood:
            Very tired, and very upset. Went to the doc today for blood test results. Full story here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83507.html

            Body:
            Skin: Looks crap today. Very lined. I guess it's from the lack of sleep.
            Hair: One good thing - still looks amazing! I'm very happy with this... I even took a pic! (now im like Derp )
            Size: Back down the a quarter of an inch.

            Food:
            I ate a lot today. I usually do when I sleep badly, but mostly today I ate from stress. I just can't seem to deal with stress by myself. Maybe this should be the next thing I tackle.

            Annoyed - I ate some dates and I realised after I finished them that they had gluten in them!! I'm anal about checking ingredients for HFCS / veg oils / soy, but it didn't occur to me to check a packet of dates.

            Final Thoughts:
            I'm pissed with the reactions of a few people on the forum to my cholesterol. They blamed my few tea spoons of sugar / eating several times a day (?!) for the exponentially high cholesterol. everyone's cholesterol goes up on a high fat diet! I presume they meant well, but that's either deluded or else intentionally taking a cheap shot when I was vulnerable. (The irony is that I'm way more "Primal" than Ray Peat! I eat refined sugar, and sugar free gum, and those are my only deviations from "Primal approved" foods!)

            I don't understand why people can't open their minds that different things work for different people. I wanted low carb primal to work for me. It was a disaster in every respect. FOR ME. I would never say it can't work for others, because who the fuck am I to make that assumption?

            BUT that's just focusing on the minority of people who weren't supportive. 99% of people who replied to that thread were amazing. I got so much helpful advice and I feel a million times better. So thanks again to MDA. Thank god I have people I can talk to here. I can't tell anyone in reality about my results cos they would freak / say "you and your fucking diets".

            Having this stuff as an interest can be isolating.[/rant]
            Last edited by YogaBare; 04-19-2013, 02:11 PM.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • @PaleoMom: Oh, I see. Well, I still think that's a better place to be


              Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              Hey Ombat, thank you for the sweet message! As I just said to

              Cierra, I'm a bit embarrassed about writing all that... bloody hell, Insecure Street! London has not been good for my confidence. It's so competitive in every way. But you know what, this experiment has really just made me think fuck it. I still have (big) moments of panic, but in general life is too short to stress about it for long. What sucks is wardrobe limitations - I love tight jeans and sparkely tops, but now I'm limited to skirts and dresses.
              Don't be embarassed; this BS is engrained in us. Of course we want to look great and be able to wear whatever the hell we want. Even at my smallest I would never wear tights without a long shirt because I hated the shape of my thighs. I was 101 effing pounds. What madness is that? Can you imagine how I must feel now at a whopping 114 pounds? (That's a joke). It's actually so absurd it's comical. How clinically mental does one have to be?... I am laughing right now as I write this.

              I was tossing around the idea of cutting cals, but I don't think I can face it right now... maybe at the end of the month, when things have settled a bit... it's all too mad right now. Are you planning to cut, or go with the flow?
              What exactly would cutting cals look like for you? IIRC you're just eating to appetite right now, but I think eating to appetite is probably more than one really needs If you feel like you can sustain under what you are currently eating, then what's the harm? If not, then please don't make yourself crazy. You should do whatever makes you feel best. From what you just wrote, actively cutting might not make you feel best.

              As for me, I recently tracked my "eat to appetite" calories out of curiously and I am sometimes not even breaking 1800 cals. So... no on the cutting. My priorities right now have been on getting more exercise - hiking and lifting - not food.

              Thanks for that article! I actually found this one this morning, which I loved and thought was beautiful. I really like Matt Stone's attitude. http://180degreehealth.com/2013/04/t...-trouble-spots
              That is a great article. It speaks to the greatest place I've come to recently, which is the realization that a bit of stomach pooch is not going to be the deciding factor on whether somebody loves me or not. This seems like more than bit of a duh but obviously it isn't. We see ourselves through the most distorted of lenses... If you are a good person you will be loved for who you are and no one who is worth anything at all will give a flying f---- what you look like (besides you, of course). If you are selfish and negative you could wear size 00 jeggings and you're still never going to get anything valuable out of life. I see this over and over again and know that it is true. It isn't just a dream. It's really tough to think this way when you're feeling badly, though. Whether it be from lack of sleep (how close to bedtime are you eating?), low temps, whathaveyou. You think, "well, if I'm going to feel like crap, can't I at least be skinny?" Yeah. And I'm sorry about what's happening on the other thread, but I don't think they mean to be hurtful. There is conventional wisdom wherever you go, even on MDA.

              Be strong and be healthy. Get exercise. Eat what makes you feel good. Be a valuable human being and spend time with people of equal if not greater worth. I know it's more complicated than that, but hopefully when you get some of these other issues under control it won't be.

              Well, how far off topic have we strayed today, Emma? orz
              *off to ramble at someone else now*
              Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

              Comment


              • I think it was either Peat or Andrew Kim that said cholesterol means fuck all except that low is bad. He said some hunter gatherer cultures had cholestoral over 1000 and were perfectly healthy.

                I thinl coconut oil and fructose can raise cholesterol temporarily. I really wouldnt worry about it at all. I sure dont. Making T3 and taking care of temp is much more important.

                Comment


                • Was I part of the problem on the other thread? If so, it's a misunderstanding. I meant a diet change for ONE day, not all together. I'm probably being paranoid. Insecure? Yes
                  PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                    Was I part of the problem on the other thread? If so, it's a misunderstanding. I meant a diet change for ONE day, not all together. I'm probably being paranoid. Insecure? Yes
                    NO - Not you at all! There was two early on posters who basically said this was definitely a cause for concern, and cited my reading Ray Peat and eating frequent meals as the cause of the high cholesterol. Yeah, I'm sure it's nothing to do with the fact that I eat Creme Fraiche from the carton and coconut oil off a spoon...

                    Still angry
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                      I think it was either Peat or Andrew Kim that said cholesterol means fuck all except that low is bad. He said some hunter gatherer cultures had cholestoral over 1000 and were perfectly healthy.

                      I thinl coconut oil and fructose can raise cholesterol temporarily. I really wouldnt worry about it at all. I sure dont. Making T3 and taking care of temp is much more important.


                      I am worried though
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ombat View Post
                        What exactly would cutting cals look like for you? IIRC you're just eating to appetite right now, but I think eating to appetite is probably more than one really needs If you feel like you can sustain under what you are currently eating, then what's the harm? If not, then please don't make yourself crazy. You should do whatever makes you feel best. From what you just wrote, actively cutting might not make you feel best.

                        As for me, I recently tracked my "eat to appetite" calories out of curiously and I am sometimes not even breaking 1800 cals. So... no on the cutting. My priorities right now have been on getting more exercise - hiking and lifting - not food.

                        That is a great article. It speaks to the greatest place I've come to recently, which is the realization that a bit of stomach pooch is not going to be the deciding factor on whether somebody loves me or not. This seems like more than bit of a duh but obviously it isn't. We see ourselves through the most distorted of lenses... If you are a good person you will be loved for who you are and no one who is worth anything at all will give a flying f---- what you look like (besides you, of course). If you are selfish and negative you could wear size 00 jeggings and you're still never going to get anything valuable out of life. I see this over and over again and know that it is true. It isn't just a dream. It's really tough to think this way when you're feeling badly, though. Whether it be from lack of sleep (how close to bedtime are you eating?), low temps, whathaveyou. You think, "well, if I'm going to feel like crap, can't I at least be skinny?" Yeah. And I'm sorry about what's happening on the other thread, but I don't think they mean to be hurtful. There is conventional wisdom wherever you go, even on MDA.

                        Be strong and be healthy. Get exercise. Eat what makes you feel good. Be a valuable human being and spend time with people of equal if not greater worth. I know it's more complicated than that, but hopefully when you get some of these other issues under control it won't be.

                        Well, how far off topic have we strayed today, Emma? orz
                        *off to ramble at someone else now*
                        That is sweet advice Emma... thank you.

                        I'm actually on the verge of ditching the whole "primal" woe as I don't know if having a restrictive diet is actually helping me in any way. I think I want my priority to be enjoying my life and not caring about weight or illnesses. Eating "healthy" doesn't seem to be helping with either of those things anyway... Keeping warm has been having much more of an effect!!!
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • R.B.T

                          Entry Seven: Thoughts streaming


                          Getting my bloods back yesterday made something hit home.

                          I've been into this diet stuff for a year now. All that's happened in that time is that I've gained 14 lbs, my cholesterol has gone through the roof, I've gotten loads more wrinkles and I might have a thyroid condition.

                          It made me think of my mum. She's been sick for about 31 years (since I was born), and has spent the last 15 years seeing doctors. She's on more and more medication and they keep finding new things wrong with her (most recently a lump on her spine ).

                          I've thought in the past that going to the docs has made her sicker. When you channel negative energy into health it ends up becoming a reality. But I've been doing the exact same with diet.

                          Focusing on "health" is not the answer to all my problems. It's multi-factoral. I need to focus more on love, and less on the imperfections.

                          Sleep:
                          Good. On and off: 12.30am - 12.30pm: about 11 hours. I was exhausted.

                          Temperature:
                          Not checking today.

                          Food:
                          Not counting any more.
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post


                            I am worried though
                            Ditch the excess fat then.

                            Comment


                            • The more time you spend thinking about an issue, the more of an issue you let it become. There is a line between actively trying to solve a problem and obsessing over it, which will just make it worse.

                              I urge you not to give up on primal/paleo just yet, but to stop counting, stop journaling, stop reading. Just take what you've learned so far and see what plays out when you just go out and live your life. I'm even going to take my own advice and put down my own journal (which I've been keeping every day for the past 238 days = 34 weeks = 8.5 months!). I've learned more about my health and digestion than I would have otherwise, but it's gotten to a point where I am no longer benefiting from it; I'm actually losing health because of it. Maybe you're at that place too?
                              Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                R.B.T

                                Entry Seven: Thoughts streaming


                                Getting my bloods back yesterday made something hit home.

                                I've been into this diet stuff for a year now. All that's happened in that time is that I've gained 14 lbs, my cholesterol has gone through the roof, I've gotten loads more wrinkles and I might have a thyroid condition.

                                It made me think of my mum. She's been sick for about 31 years (since I was born), and has spent the last 15 years seeing doctors. She's on more and more medication and they keep finding new things wrong with her (most recently a lump on her spine ).

                                I've thought in the past that going to the docs has made her sicker. When you channel negative energy into health it ends up becoming a reality. But I've been doing the exact same with diet.

                                Focusing on "health" is not the answer to all my problems. It's multi-factoral. I need to focus more on love, and less on the imperfections.

                                Sleep:
                                Good. On and off: 12.30am - 12.30pm: about 11 hours. I was exhausted.

                                Temperature:
                                Not checking today.

                                Food:
                                Not counting any more.
                                GREAT! Hold on to these thoughts!!

                                There are many, many of us for which finding a healthy balance is next to impossible and we tend to be a little (or a lot) OCD in all endeavors. It seems like in our attempts to quit certain unhealthy habits such as restricting, counting, and obsessing, we just replace those practices with experiments. Well, of course, those experiments involve planning, monitoring, assessing feedback and tweaking accordingly..... and then, we realize we're still in that same cycle but with different variables plugged into the equation!

                                I'm not saying that all of our efforts should be thrown out the window and that we should give up on bettering our health, but that we should work on balance first and foremost. The stress of navigating these waters without it is harming our health more than the things we did back when we didn't give a rip!
                                Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

                                - Robert Louis Stevenson

                                Comment

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