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  • nah, it bugs me too -- and there are even orthodox jews who are now questioning whether or not the ritual needs to be done.

    and, apparently, more than 60% of boys born today are kept intact in the US, which means that it's more likely that he'll see an intact penis rather than a circ'd one in the locker room.

    here in NZ, the only circs are religious (muslim/jewish). the jewish one is partial (just the tip) so most of the organ and new endings are maintained. but the muslim one is currently using the plastibel procedure -- which is apparently incredibly painful. but, you know, i's babies and they don't remember, right? (the answer is no. their brain is developing rapidly, as are neurological connections. this impacts brain develpment. it might not be a conscious memory, but it is a neurological one).

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    • Originally posted by Twibble View Post
      This is the one issue that my hubby and I majorly disagree on in regards to children. He and his mother, who is a nurse, insist that it's healthier and cleaner. Urgh.
      Do you have sons yet? And if it was unclean and unhealthy to have it intact, how did Grok and the boys manage to survive and thrive as species. Also, by the "cleaner" reasoning we should have little girls labia removed because that obviously is a breeding ground for yeast and bacteria. Urg.

      Originally posted by zoebird View Post
      nah, it bugs me too -- and there are even orthodox jews who are now questioning whether or not the ritual needs to be done.

      and, apparently, more than 60% of boys born today are kept intact in the US, which means that it's more likely that he'll see an intact penis rather than a circ'd one in the locker room.

      here in NZ, the only circs are religious (muslim/jewish). the jewish one is partial (just the tip) so most of the organ and new endings are maintained. but the muslim one is currently using the plastibel procedure -- which is apparently incredibly painful. but, you know, i's babies and they don't remember, right? (the answer is no. their brain is developing rapidly, as are neurological connections. this impacts brain develpment. it might not be a conscious memory, but it is a neurological one).
      Well that's good to know that the tide is turning on this.

      There are some muslim people who actually do that full circ when the kid is at puberty. It's a "coming of age" ritual. I dated a Moroccan guy when I lived in France that had had that done to him by his family in the courtyard of the family house. He had a zig zag scar all the way around that looked horrible. (No wonder he was kinda twisted when it came to bedroom stuff.) He said it was traditional to do it without any anesthetic and that it is a big deal that the kid is not supposed to cry or scream, dishonoring the family and all that nonsense. Fucking barbarians.

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      • Yeah, apparently they do it at infancy, 3-4 yrs old, or 12 yrs old depending upon the country. which indicates, really, that it's a country thing, not a religious thing, that then became a religious thing. so terrible, really.

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        • I really like living by the water. The Wolf Cub and I went for a nice long walk along the harborside today. All the lost looking tourists were out with their maps. Evidently if one has a dog people figure you must be a local and you turn into the mobile tourist information booth. I don't mind stopping to help out lost people as I have been a tourist in many a place around the world.

          The GMan and I are planning a little camping trip to Bryce and Zion national parks. Both of us have been there but neither had enough time to really see them thoroughly and do some hiking. Taking the Wolf Cub with us of course.

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          • Sounds like a blast. How bare bones do you camp? Hike in? Car to a spot? Five star hotel on the beach? (No, wait, that would be me.) Sounds like the two of you (and the cub) are coming together really nicely. Couldn't happen for a nicer person.
            "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

            B*tch-lite

            Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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            • that'll be an awesome trip! you can take as long as you want, since you're both retired and the kiddo (i mean dog) goes with you.

              also, can i just say that this "men lifting" thread and all of the harsh cis-gender enforcement is sad as can be? I mean, good lord! if a woman can decide what defines her as a person and live that without fear of being "less" of a woman (which has not yet arrived in our culture but hey, its' better than it was), then certainly a man can do the same.

              My man lifts, wears long hair, shaves his face/chest, likes to polish his nails on occasion, sometimes wears eye liner, and carries a bag on more than one occasion. He's our "housewife" and also the primary carer of his child. He's still very masculine and manly and a 'real man.'

              My son is in love with all kinds of gender exploration through costume and is a 'girl-something' nearly half the days of the week. He has a magical cloak that he puts on in the morning that reveals what he is that day. Then, he dresses and plays in accordance with that. He's very much a normal, active boy. He also likes to wear his hair long, but doesn't care about nail polish or make up (except costume make up!).

              I just want my boys (men) to be free to choose who they are. To be able to express themselves however they want. To be supported as human beings no matter what choices, and know that -- if they are cis-gendered (and DH is and who knows waht DS will be), then they are 'real men' even if that includes long hair and nail polish.

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              • rant over. i just figured you'd understand.

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                • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  Sounds like a blast. How bare bones do you camp? Hike in? Car to a spot? Five star hotel on the beach? (No, wait, that would be me.) Sounds like the two of you (and the cub) are coming together really nicely. Couldn't happen for a nicer person.
                  GMan has a nice cab over camper that is big enough for the three of us. We've done it before back in the day. One of the many things I always liked about GMan was that we got along well on the road. I really think that anyone even contemplating something as silly as marriage should be forced to spend a couple of weeks together camping. It would save everyone a lot of time and grief. If you are not compatible, that is when it is going to show.

                  Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                  that'll be an awesome trip! you can take as long as you want, since you're both retired and the kiddo (i mean dog) goes with you.

                  also, can i just say that this "men lifting" thread and all of the harsh cis-gender enforcement is sad as can be? I mean, good lord! if a woman can decide what defines her as a person and live that without fear of being "less" of a woman (which has not yet arrived in our culture but hey, its' better than it was), then certainly a man can do the same.

                  I just want my boys (men) to be free to choose who they are. To be able to express themselves however they want. To be supported as human beings no matter what choices, and know that -- if they are cis-gendered (and DH is and who knows waht DS will be), then they are 'real men' even if that includes long hair and nail polish.
                  Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                  rant over. i just figured you'd understand.
                  I must have missed a thread. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. But I agree that stereotypes are just that and nothing more. Defining yourself takes guts.

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                  • yeah. keep missing that thread. it's scary. i mean, so sad. poor DH has fussed about that since his cultural studies degree (which includes a lot about gender in it -- in fact, his study was in male identity and muscle).

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                    • I've found that thread to be funny as hell. And yes, men (and everyone) should be strong.

                      Sent via A-10 Warthog

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                      • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                        yeah. keep missing that thread. it's scary. i mean, so sad. poor DH has fussed about that since his cultural studies degree (which includes a lot about gender in it -- in fact, his study was in male identity and muscle).
                        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                        I've found that thread to be funny as hell. And yes, men (and everyone) should be strong.
                        OK, now I'm curious. Are you talking about that bicep size thread? I quit reading that because the ramblings of Mr. Perfidy's stoned brain and the ramblings of Wilton's very serious brain taking himself way too seriously got tedious.

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                        • I'm off for a couple of days at GMan's house. We're planning our camping trip and seeing what supplied we need today.

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                          • have fun
                            and be good
                            When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                            27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                            new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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                            • it's yogabare's thread entitled "why don't men lift?" or something like that.

                              i would find it "funny" if people were taking the piss, btu they are not. it is such intense gender policing.

                              i believe that people "should" be a lot of things for their health/wellbeing -- ie, strong, move around a lot, do work that they love, have strong healthy relationships and community ties, etc . .. but doing or not doing these things doesnt' make anyone *not* a man/woman/person.

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                              • also PB, make sure you do take some time to plan your trip while you're over at Gman's house.

                                you might also introduce him to Dr Oz's recommendation of 700 times a year for his health and well being. DH felt it was burdensome (2x day Mon-Fri plus 3x day Sat/Sun). Ironically, I pointed out that he eats that often, so why shouldn't he have sex that often? and then he told me that my stupid subtype is clouding my vision and "women!" LOL

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