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  • Its fascintating to me to see the many arms of the Paleo movement forming. Each with their own CW and biases - from the Perfect Health diet to the Ketogenic approach and everything in between. This sort of reflects the variety of Ancestral diets that evolved over time as people adapted to their environments. Paleolithic cultures in the Arctic, the Americas, Europe, Polynesia and Asia were required to adapt to many enviromental variables and evolved to eat foods that ensured their survival. Animals, pemican, fish, insects, blubber, coconuts, honey, tuber vegetables, nuts or fruit, anything was fair game when facing starvation. Which leads me to the belief that we all need to experiment and find what works best for us as individuals, share best practices and try not to dictate a specific approach.
    Last edited by canuck416; 04-19-2013, 09:42 AM.
    Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

    https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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    • Hiya, Honey Badger.

      Somebody had a thread going the other day about ways to get your kids to eat vegetables and people came up with all kinds of creative things basically to disguise the vegetables. You can melt cheese all over them. You can use lots of butter and spices, and cream sauces. You can make cream of <insert veg here> soup.

      Kids hate veggies because they are being honest with themselves and their parents. Veggies don't taste good without a lot of coaxing.

      The plant matter that I still find delicious comes down to combinations of these things:

      avocados (really a fruit not a veggie)
      coconuts (fruit)
      tomatoes (another fruit)
      bell peppers (nightshade fruit)
      mushrooms (fungi)
      seaweed (algae)
      onions and garlic (condiments)
      horseradish and wasabi (condiments)
      occasional mac nuts (a treat)
      occasional berries (even wolves eat berries)
      tea and Teeccino
      spices

      So, basically I eat what any self respecting child would find delicious. Also, I referred to this on my carnivore thread as being "the stuff my dog likes too" diet.

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      • Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
        Since you have been ketogenic for sometime, I was wondering how it was affecting your body fat %? Have you dropped significant weight? How has it affected your training? Just curious to how your sustained VLC has affected your overall performance. Thanks
        Hi, Canuck. I'm in maintenance mode as far as weight goes, not really trying to lose anything. Keto works for that in that I can eat all I want (within reason of course) and not have to count anything.
        My training right now sucks but that is because of too much other stuff going on in my life (like taking care of my Dad, wrapping up his affairs, getting his house on the market, moving). I fully admit that I have slacked off but it has nothing to do with diet. I feel great though. Digestive system works properly, hair and skin are glowing, no seizures on less meds.
        Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
        Its fascintating to me to see the many arms of the Paleo movement forming. Each with their own CW and biases - from the Perfect Health diet to the Ketogenic approach and everything in between. This sort of reflects the variety of Ancestral diets that evolved over time as people adapted to their environments. Paleolithic cultures in the Arctic, the Americas, Europe, Polynesia and Asia were required to adapt to many enviromental variables and evolved to eat foods that ensured their survival. Animals, pemican, fish, insects, blubber, coconuts, honey, tuber vegetables, nuts or fruit, anything was fair game when facing starvation. Which leads me to the belief that we all need to experiment and find what works best for us as individuals, share best practices and try not to dictate a specific approach.
        Sure, we humans are "successful" as a species because we are highly adaptable.

        But the premise is still out there that I believe which is that all the stuff other than animal sourced food was Plan B food. The nutrient density of plants would not justify the energy expenditure to gather them especially in their wild state which was much less edible in terms of lower nutrient density and higher anti-nutrient content. (the stuff in the produce department is a collection of our tame creations bred for sugar content and lower defenses). These wild veggies would keep you from starving if the hunt went badly.

        So, why eat Plan B food when you can have Plan A?

        I would think that animal based foods supplemented with occasional fruit would be Plan A, tubers would be Plan B, and other veggies would be way down to Plan C. No self respecting Grok would bother unless the tribe was seriously hungry.

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        • Glad to hear things are working out for you! I'm a little more on the omnivore side at this point I find I'm constantly tweeking my diet every few weeks to try and find the carb sweet spot for peak performance, building some muscle and reducing my bodyfat.
          Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

          https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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          • I agree that kids are very honest, but I don't think that a general dislike of veggies is the real issue. Though a great way to support your belief that people shouldn't eat veggies and don't really like them.

            Largely, there are several reasons why children don't want to eat veggies. I agree that not liking them and/or not wanting them and/or not preferring them to other foods can be part of the equation. BUt I don't think it's because "we're not meant to eat them."

            The largest reason that kid's diets tend to be so bland is because of parents. There's a huge culture of bland-kid-foods or high-sugar/high-salt kids foods, etc. Kids are given foods only of certain sizes or pureed -- which leads to texture aversions. I know kids whose first food profiles move from formula to rice cereal (try that, it's nasty) to mushed, unseasoned baby foods to goldfish crackers and cheerios.

            So, their palates for diverse flavors, diverse textures is really stunted. Then, these foods are "thrown" at them. At a certian point, children are somehow expected to suddenly change from a bland, sweet/salty processed palate to a "real food" palate. It's nigh-on impossible as far as i can tell. Hard to say the very least.

            But children who are raised on real foods from the get go -- tend to be happy with diverse foods. Today, DS has had the following veggies *by request*

            *broccoli
            *fermented cabbage, carrot
            *cauliflower
            *cucumber
            *bell pepper
            *carrot

            We steamed the broccoli and cauliflower in bone broth and dressed with salt, pepper, and olive oil; the rest were raw and as-is -- no sauce, no seasoning, no dip, etc. Just straight veggies.

            Some of his favorites are seasonal -- like asparagus, brussels sprouts (which he put in a special request for when he saw them in the market last week), and butternut squash.

            Most of these we do not bother to dress beyond very simple salt/pepper/oil, and most of them we'll eat "straight" as well. It's just what we do. And he loves the different textures.

            His best friend was also raised similarly. She'll tell you that her favorite food is cabbage! She likes to eat leaves of it, witout dip or anything else.

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            • I really can't agree that kids don't like vegetables. It's been my experience with my own kids that they really liked most vegetables and fruit (except brussel sprouts, parsnips and turnips). However there are few foods as nutrient dense as liver and getting them to eat liver was a real challenge.
              Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

              https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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              • I think Zoebird is right.

                My kids loved veggies and salad from as early as I can remember feeding it to them. My son's favorite vegetable has always been Brussels sprouts, with cabbage coming a close second. The only veg that the youngest wouldn't eat was mushrooms, but she loves them now.

                But then, I breast fed (no formula) exclusively for the first six months, and fed them real foods after that. I owned one baby bottle (for using with expressed breast milk) but the first kid wouldn't suck from it, so I never used it again. I never bought a single jar of "baby" food.

                All three of my kids are happy, healthy, normal weight adults who have individual tastes, favorites, and dislikes.

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                • I totally agree that the food that is fed to kids is often either bland or overly salted/sweetened crap and that kids get a warped palate because of it.

                  My parents cooked and served lots of veggies and it was never a battle to get me to eat them. I went along with what everyone else at the table was doing I guess. Parents who have a good relationship with their kids are very influential in shaping their tastes.

                  Like I said, I used to lurve my veggies. It's only been since ketosis that my tastes have changed. I wonder if a ketone burning metabolism changes the palate.


                  In other news.... I have arrived with all my worldly goods at my new address. Still working on adjusting some furniture, hanging pictures, hanging curtains, putting all my spices away, etc.

                  I find that I have extra shelves and cabinets that I really don't need. I think I should get rid of them before stuff starts to accumulate in them at night. It's sort of like, "If you build it, they will come." If you give junk a space, it will expand to fill it.

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                  • If you give junk a space, it will expand to fill it.
                    Oh, I so agree. Also purses. My thing is that no matter if I carry a small or large purse, I'll eventually fill it with "essentials."

                    Congrats on moving all the way in!

                    I'm the minority here in that I didn't much like veggies as a child. Which is why my mom would make things like pan fried breaded green beans, or make a cheese sauce to put over them. Poor thing was just trying to get her daughter to put something green in her mouth.
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                    • Robin, I hope you are very happy and comfortable in your new home.
                      I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.

                      Oscar Wilde

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                      • So happy for you!
                        Primal since 9/24/2010
                        "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                        Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                        MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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                        • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                          Oh, I so agree. Also purses. My thing is that no matter if I carry a small or large purse, I'll eventually fill it with "essentials."
                          Congrats on moving all the way in!
                          Originally posted by Sigi View Post
                          Robin, I hope you are very happy and comfortable in your new home.
                          Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                          So happy for you!
                          Thanks, everybody.

                          Today I spent hanging pictures, curtain rods, and adjusting the furniture to be "just right". I also took out several bookcases/cabinets already. Nerga breeding grounds.

                          There is an unofficial swap spot next to the recycle dumpster in the garage where people leave things that are not needed but are perfectly usable. I got a nice area rug for my guest room there and I have dropped off a few things as well. Whenever I look again, my stuff has gotten adopted by a new home. It's a nice system.

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                          • That's awesome.

                            I agree about getting rid of storage solutions so that you don't collect things!

                            It's school holidays, so we are setting up for a declutter. I decluttered the office that DS uses and it's *great* -- now he can use it more effectively and so can we!

                            Now, we're working on getting the closet cleared out so that we can set up a room for DS. It's an interesting process. It involves a lot of letting go of things that I didn't even realize we'd collected! :P

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                            • Yep, if you keep too many cabinets/closets/shelves, it is very easy to just put some nerga there meaning to sort it out sometime soon. It is out of the way for the moment and out of mind. Next thing you know it has dug in and grown roots and sprouted and multiplied.

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                              • Congratulations, that is so wonderful! We have a common swap area like that in our apartment complex, I agree it's a pretty cool system.
                                I feed my healthy cells and starve the rest.

                                Waist circumference:
                                50(start)/40.5(current)/35>(goal)

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