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  • hi PB! this is interesting as i feel best eating an almost carnivorous diet. i just try to eat veggies coz i am sposed to and i keep thinking minerals. if you think about them, most of them are highly cultivated in the sense our paleo ancestors wouldnt have had access to copius amounts of nice mesclun quality green leafies etc. i did read somewhere they used to eat the stomach contents of the reindeer as that was the only way they could digest the lichen as it was predigested. prob with a good dose of beneficial bacteria thrown in too. i know my dog will eat green tripe and the dung of herbivores but give him that k9 raw dog food with veges in and he will go on hunger strike. quite intriguing about how sea veges and 'shrooms are seen as ok as i love them. and avocados. the rest i have to work on eating as i dont really dislike them, i just dont feel that enthusiastic iykwim. my dairy i would struggle to give up but i can hone it down to just the cream in the coffee and the odd bit of fatty cheese.

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    • I agree with Zoebird on this, if it works for you go with it, if not just make an adjustment. Personally I monitor how I feel during workouts, sleep patterns, energy level, sex drive etc and adjust my diet macros accordingly. Currently I'm finding that adding a great salad, some cooked vegetables and fruit a couple of times a week works best for me. It also helps that I love the taste and variety they add.
      Last edited by canuck416; 12-28-2012, 06:48 AM.
      Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

      https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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      • Whatever works for you. I love vegetables far too much to go full carny: every season is like Christmas, a whole bunch of new presents to open and taste fresh. When I plan my weekly menus, or vaguely outline them, I think proteins and vegetables, and can't separate them out so much as think of ways to combine them.

        But if you're eating quality meats and your "additive" veggies, that's the beauty of the Primal WOE, right? You make it your own? I just enjoy diversity too much, I suppose. But you also are striving for VLC, and I only cycle LC eating.

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        • I think it would be crazy for me to try it because I love my plant foods and feel best when I eat lots of them, but I think you have a different body and different needs, so what is crazy for me might be totally reasonable for you. It seems like it could be a good experiment for you because you're not going to try to live on muscle meats alone--you know well enough to include all the odd bits so you get the nutrients you need--and you're also the kind of person who pays attention to how her body feels, so if it's not working, then you'll adjust it or go back to what worked better.

          I look forward to reading about your experience!
          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

          Owly's Journal

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          • Welp, if it doesn't go well, you start eating veggies again, right? Ditto to what Owly said.

            Personally, I like my fruits, starches, and some veg. Though with veg, I usually only like it when drowned in fat & salt. Raw stuff can go to hell.
            Depression Lies

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            • Originally posted by seaweed View Post
              hi PB! this is interesting as i feel best eating an almost carnivorous diet. i just try to eat veggies coz i am sposed to and i keep thinking minerals. if you think about them, most of them are highly cultivated in the sense our paleo ancestors wouldnt have had access to copius amounts of nice mesclun quality green leafies etc.my dairy i would struggle to give up but i can hone it down to just the cream in the coffee and the odd bit of fatty cheese.
              Yep, "supposed to" in the same way that we a re supposed to have multiple servings of grain daily. And I am not giving my dairy. The carnivorous blogosphere is like the paleo bunch. Lots of internal disagreement on the finer points.

              Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
              I agree with Zoebird on this, if it works for you go with it, if not just make an adjustment. Personally I monitor how I feel during workouts, sleep patterns, energy level, sex drive etc and adjust my diet macros accordingly. Currently I'm finding that adding a great salad, some cooked vegetables and fruit a couple of times a week works best for me. It also helps that I love the taste and variety they add.
              I feel best in ketosis. I see this as just a really easy way to stay there. It can be tricky to keep carbs low enough for ketosis when you are always trying to shoehorn more veggies in because you are "supposed to".

              Originally posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
              Whatever works for you. I love vegetables far too much to go full carny: every season is like Christmas, a whole bunch of new presents to open and taste fresh. When I plan my weekly menus, or vaguely outline them, I think proteins and vegetables, and can't separate them out so much as think of ways to combine them.

              But if you're eating quality meats and your "additive" veggies, that's the beauty of the Primal WOE, right? You make it your own? I just enjoy diversity too much, I suppose. But you also are striving for VLC, and I only cycle LC eating.
              I would have said the same thing a few months back. You can see all the pretty pictures of my BASs in my journal. A lot of it for me is just getting my head around how much social conditioning is involved in health conscious people professing to "love" their veggies. I'm not saying that individual tastes don't vary, but, in myself, I came to realize that I was "supposed to" love my veggies so I did. I *made* them tasty with all kinds of seasonings and sauces. Would they really be as appetizing on their own?

              Originally posted by Owly View Post
              I think it would be crazy for me to try it because I love my plant foods and feel best when I eat lots of them, but I think you have a different body and different needs, so what is crazy for me might be totally reasonable for you. It seems like it could be a good experiment for you because you're not going to try to live on muscle meats alone--you know well enough to include all the odd bits so you get the nutrients you need--and you're also the kind of person who pays attention to how her body feels, so if it's not working, then you'll adjust it or go back to what worked better.

              I look forward to reading about your experience!
              Yes, I will definitely be eating odd bits. (There is one really wingnut faction of ZC that says that there are too many carbs in liver. That is taking it too far.) I am using up the veggies I have in stock and not buying any more so my intake is going down gradually but already my digestive system is much happier without all that cellulose. I really think the book Fiber Menace has some good points.

              Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
              Welp, if it doesn't go well, you start eating veggies again, right? Ditto to what Owly said.
              Personally, I like my fruits, starches, and some veg. Though with veg, I usually only like it when drowned in fat & salt. Raw stuff can go to hell.
              If you have to slather it with fat and salt.........
              The ZC folks' contention is that if you really stay with just animal products, you will lose your cravings for things like starch and fruit.
              I don't really like starch but I do like fruit. I can see that being a seasonal thing like doing a strawberry pig out in summertime and then not having any more for a year.

              Don't even get me started on the raw carnivore bunch. They are seriously out to lunch.

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              • I hope you are out having a fun new year.

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                • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                  I hope you are out having a fun new year.
                  Hi Zoe, thanks. My net connection has been off for a couple of days. It's been kind of a nice net-break.

                  Happy New Year to all.

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                  • Today I got my Dad's life insurance check. I didn't even know there was a policy. I knew there was one way back when I was a kid but, at some point after my Mom passed away, Dad must have put my name on the policy as beneficiary because the check was made out to me. It was a policy through his work so when I notified them to stop his pension benefits, the insurance process must have kicked in but, if they had never sent it to me, I would never have known the difference.

                    It's like he is continuing to take care of me even now. Thanks, Dad.

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                    • *hugs*
                      your dad. he was a good un.
                      I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

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                      • Originally posted by badgergirl View Post
                        *hugs*
                        your dad. he was a good un.
                        He was indeed. Thanks, badgergirl.

                        Today the real estate broker is going to be taking pictures of the two houses for the listing. The past two months have been such a whirl of getting things cleaned out, packed up, sold off, given away, etc.

                        But today all the changes somehow seem more *real* like it is finally soaking in on some deeper level.

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                        • Today I got a phone call from a dear friend who lives in Mexico, someone I haven't seen in about 6 months. She starts out by saying, " Hi and how are you and how is your Dad?"

                          Yikes. She didn't know because I hadn't been able to get an email through to her (3rd world internet service where she lives). So I had to tell the whole tale from the top. Again.

                          She just lost her husband recently and hearing this news really hit her hard because her husband and my Dad, both in their 80s, had developed quite a friendship over the years. So we had a good long distance cry together.

                          I miss him.

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                          • So sorry about your dad PB, sounds like you had an amazing relationship, something I wish for, but I know will never happen with my parents
                            BTW you rock! Thanks for all your inspiration.

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                            • Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                              So sorry about your dad PB, sounds like you had an amazing relationship, something I wish for, but I know will never happen with my parents
                              BTW you rock! Thanks for all your inspiration.
                              Thanks, Ayla. Good to see you around again and I'm glad to hear of your progress, along with so many other people on Pebbles' More Fat thread.

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                              • Well, crap!

                                Guess I need to report the failings as well as the triumphs so here goes.

                                I have been doing really well with my seizure disorder as long as I stayed in nutritional ketosis. I was able to reduce my medication by 25% with no problems.

                                Then some combination of the following happened:

                                1)Too much "holiday cheer" in the form of wine, champagne, and chocolate
                                2)I only drink decaf but I brew it by the pot and there is still some caffeine so I figure I'm getting about a cup or two worth out of a whole pot. This is still too much for my brain I think.
                                3)I'm cleaning out my pantry and freezer in anticipation of moving soon. Plus I'm contemplating going full-on carnivore so I'm using up things like frozen fruits and veggies. So I think my fat intake has gotten short shrift lately. Not good.
                                4)I've been staying up too late on the net and getting my circadian cycle all whacked out.
                                5)Personal stress storm of my Dad getting sick then passing, cleaning out and selling a house, moving, etc all in quick succession.

                                I have had several nights this past week where my sleep was disturbed by having a pre-seizure aura which wakes me up with a start. This has been happening several times a night sometimes. (I have a particular kind of seizure disorder that only happens during sleep.) Then last night I had a seizure. Just a small one and I didn't lose consciousness but I still bit my tongue (which now hurts like a sonofabitch!) The day after a seizure is always a zombie day.

                                OK. Plan of action

                                1)I hereby officially quit drinking even for those rare "special occasions".
                                2)No more coffe of any kind. Going strictly rooibos tea from now on.
                                3)Make a conscious effort to get the fat in me. (Today I went and bought labne, crema Mexicana, GF raw butter and cream, and coconut cream)
                                4)If you see me posting after 10 pm feel free to wag your finger at me and tell me to go to bed.

                                I feel like I've had a "slap upside the head" which may be what I needed to get back on track.
                                Last edited by Paleobird; 01-06-2013, 07:24 PM.

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