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  • Th emood stuff started first, but it's possible that the root cause is leading to the cravings driving the food choices contributing even more to the bloating & water retention.

    I don't mind posts! I appreciate all input!


    I was just thinking about how I feel about sugar now vs years ago before primal. I used to think about the thought of never eating sugar (or say, my formerly favorite food, cheesecake) again, and it was literally like thinking of never seeing a best friend again. It was sad, made me angry to have to do without when others don't, and I didn't even want to be at a place where I didn't want it, b/c I thought that would be a place where I had little enjoyment, because sugar gave me SO MUCH enjoyment.

    That's not at all the case now. I don't enjoy sugar even. Some foods taste good and I do get resentful at rarely or never being able to have them, but virtually no grains are in that category, and I am so rarely eating sugared foods now that when I have them, only about 1% even taste good. I'm glad that strong internal attachment is no longer there. It's purely a physical draw now, now a taste or pleasure or desire one. Not really even an emotional one.

    So I'm grateful - very grateful - for that.

    But there was that one period of six months where I didn't want the stuff at all. I couldn't even summon a desire for it. I didn't feel any resentment, not even at the difficulty of avoiding every speck of it, not even at the monotony of eating only what I ate, even when others were eating a bunch of other healthy & tasty stuff around me that just isn't best for me. There was nothing, no component, to my food choices other than what was nourishing for me, and I enjoyed all that I did eat because of that nourishing aspect, in addition to the fact that nourishing food really is tasty.

    I don't know what happened to change that.
    5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
    Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
    Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
    Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
    ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

    Comment


    • Not bad today. I had fruit - a lot of dry fruit - in the evening b/c for the 4th out of 5 days, had difficulty getting dinnre on time. But I brought a whole cow home and hauled the whole thing down to the freezer myself, so double-bonus - shouldn't have that problem anymore, and I certainly got a workout in.

      Still bubbly.

      Need to get in 7 days of
      - no carb
      - ox bile & HCl with every meal
      - no CAFO meat

      so I can get this blimp down and work on figuring out what is responsible for that and for the cravings. After 7 days, I will probably add sweet potatoes and/or apples - one/day for a few weeks, then probably add some berries and/or greens.
      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

      Comment


      • Finally complete day one of seven.

        I noticed yesterday morning that my skin, esp. tummy & upper arms, is smoothest EVEr. Upper arms were a bit bumpier by late afternoon.

        Noticed last week that I seem to have lost upper arm & leg hair again, or much of it. What's there looks new. But yesterday, it seemed like I had lost even more. The two times before when this happened were right after I went primal (cut out the half serving of sourdough I'd been having a day) and right after I started the leptin reset.

        In my funk now. Feeling headache-y and sleepy and unable. This usually lasts two hours. It was earlier the last two days than previous weeks. About 11 or 12.
        5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
        Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
        Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
        Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
        ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

        Comment


        • Day 3 down. Phew!
          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

          Comment


          • I think that's 5 or 6 days of strict food & supplements. I saw a slight reduction in bloating overnight last night; hopefully it will stick.

            We went to a big fundraiser Sat night and the theme was Crowns & Cupcakes. Cupcakes. I stuffed myself that morning and again at 4pm that night, and had no desire to eat the food, even though it looked good and even though there was a massive candy bar - literally, all kinds of candy, with bags to fill, and it was all free - as I walked in. That kind of surprise usually kills my intentions.

            It really goes to show that *enough* nutrition will kill the cravings, but the question is still, why is it taking so much more now?

            Anyway, my energy & mood have been really pleasant the last few days. I've really enjoyed it. Could be
            -the ever-increasing iodine (up to one full eyedropper squeeze (which is really only half, b/cit won't fill up all the way)
            -the ever-decreasing thyroid dose (1/2gr 2hrs before waking, 1/2gr on waking, 1/2gr at 11am)
            -the DHEA (I've been taking 33mg/day for about 3 weeks)
            -turning off the wifi at night
            -increasing Mg (I went from 2caps Mg L-Th in AM to 3, and added 2 tabs Mg Oro PM)

            I've been off the d-ribose for a week. I'll consider adding it in another few days, whether or not the bloating goes down. First I have to see if the cravings stay away for at least 10 days before I add it, to avoid being unsure about whether it's having the effects of cravings.
            5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
            Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
            Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
            Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
            ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

            Comment


            • Let's see, the good, the bad, and the ugly:

              - No real cravings in over a week. I'm on close to two weeks sugar-free (dairy, carbs, etc., too).
              - Still very bloated. Legs still up 1", wrist still up. Weighed this morning - up 11.5lb from six weeks ago. It must be all water, b/c I really don't see fat anywhere. All water & bloat!!
              - Still off d-rib. Forgot DHEA the last three days.
              - Getting eye twitches despite 3 Mg L-threonate in AM & 3 Mg Orotate in afternoon. ?! What?! Very disturbing.
              - Waiting for Cholacol ox bile to come in. I really don't think the Nutricology is working for me, even though it's 500mg, and the Jarrow that worked was 600mg & the Cholacol was 300mg. On 2-2.5gr NDT each day and running out again.
              - Realized I haven't done CT in about 3 weeks. I haven't felt up to the cold water. Maybe b/c I decreased house temp and have felt chilled most of the day each day?
              - Physically & mentally feeling MUCH better. The last week I have had sleepy hours each day, but no need to crawl and hide. Had one morning of snapping at everyone, the night after I forgot to turn the router off. Forgot again last night; we'l see what the morning brings. I have a cold today (& yesterday). Garlic didn't kill it off entirely yet.

              It really is wonderful being able to work every hour of a long, mentally trying day and at the end still have mental & physical energy to spare. Certainly there is still plenty of room for improvement, but wow, what a breath of fresh air. Of course, part of me is waiting for the other shoe to drop - I hope and pray it doesn't.
              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

              Comment


              • Dropped 2.5lb yesterday, none today, but wrist is deflating a bit. I definitely felt deflating yesterday afternoon toward dinner.

                Why is it taking WEEKS to deflate this time instead of days? Dunno.

                I haven't had any mystery slits in my hands in the last two to three weeks. I did have a thought about hair loss. It could be that the big connection in each time that I've lost upper arm & leg hair was each time I did a big carb drop. The first time wasn't really a huge carb drop, but I did take out the 1/2svg per day of wheat I was having. The second time followed 6 weeks of weekend bingeing and was when I started the LR. The third was after a few weeks of bingeiness on and off. I think there were probably other times I did a big drop and didn't have that result, though.

                Who knows?

                In another week or so, I'm planning to start adding in, one at a time, greens, sweet potatoes, & berries.
                5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                Comment


                • Hey Mama Grok!! I haven't been on here in ages and actually only read through the last few pages to find out how your journey was going. When I read you were going to try 5HTP I needed to butt in. I have been taking it for 4 weeks now 100mg before bed along with GABA. HUGE difference HUGE difference. I sleep like a rock, I have dropped all cravings for sweets, for the first time ever in my life. I have struggled with it for like ever and more so since having children. I started reading this book here and ran out the next day to get the supplements and in one day I made 180 turn around. Secrets to Controlling your Weight, Cravings and Mood: Understand the biochemistry of neurotransmitters and how they determine our weight and mood: Maria Emmerich: 9781456424541: Amazon.com: Books I follow Maria on facebook, she is fantastic and she is a paleo nutritionist. She recommends other stuff too that is just slipping my mind at the moment. Before bed though I am taking 500mg of Magnesium, 100mg of 5HTP, GABA. I also do Epsom Salt soaks now a 2x's a week. I stopped working out and really was struggling getting through workouts, kept getting sick and so sore. Magnesium has done miracles in this area for me as well, but alas I derail. I just wanted to say that 5HTP is a miracle in a bottle. I go all day without sugar cravings and if I do have it on occasion, I have no desire to sneak and down all of it. I also just learned too that on your heavy workout days that cravings happen because your body is seeking glucose so now I am trying Carb back loading paleo style to help. I started that this week and that helped me have way more energy before and after workouts. Ugh, almost 3 years of doing this journey for me and it really has become such a personal discovery and trial and error. Anyway, I hope it helps.
                  ~*Lori*~
                  my Primal journal : http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...-momofredheads
                  my food blog http://iamhungrywhatsfordinner.blogspot.com/

                  SW 231 as of 1/1/2012
                  CW 192

                  Comment


                  • I still have lots of trial and error going on, for sure! I may end up trying 5HTP yet, we'll see. As for now, I've been cravings-free for two weeks, even noting how I'm dreaming about passing up sweets & not caring, pigging out on brisket, etc., lol. But last night I had a sweets dream, just a small one, so knew I had to be on guard today. And yes, I found myself craving just a tiny bit.

                    But anyway, yesterday was another great day with energy & cheerfulness. No crawl-in-a-corner moments, no big headaches, no anger jags. Today was slightly worse, and several times I felt right on the cusp of a big headache, but avoided it mostly. I'm having dh turn on and off the router, but not tell me when he does, so after a week I'll know which nights I slept with it on and which off. I'm wondering if that being off at night the last week has anything to do with the headaches going away.

                    Still chugging the different kinds of Mg 3x/day, but getting eye twitches. Grr. Don't understand that. Well, I didn't have them yesterday and only one today, but had them 3-4x/day the 4 days before that. O was only 1 day early this month, pleasant surprise after lots of months of 3 days early.

                    I decided to eat a sweet potato tonight. I'm deflating, yes, slowly - was down just under 24" on thigh yesterday after going from 23 to 24.25 in just over a week, adn stayin gthere for several weeks. Was down 3lb from the measured high (I'm sure it was higher than that before I reined it all in). But I can't keep waiting forever on a fish/meat/fat diet. So sweet potatoes it is for now, then in a few weeks, berries, then maybe I'll try well-cooked greens/squash again.

                    I still can't figure out why all the weight gain in the last month. Oh, well. I know it is 90% bloat & water; I just don't know why it happened, why it was so much, why it stuck around so long.
                    5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                    Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                    Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                    Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                    ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                    Comment


                    • Today is Sunday Mar 10.

                      Friday - mental stamina & mood - 8 or 8.5 out of 10
                      physical stamina - 6

                      Saturday - mental - felt fine, but for some reason could only focus on negative things about others for the first hour or two, then great the rest of the day
                      - physical - 5.5 or 6. Very sleepy from about 1-4.

                      Today - out of NDT. Eeks. None 2hrs before waking today. Woke sluggish with a headache. OTOH, dh also woke with a headache, which never happens. We ate out last night, but had different things. I had a dish that was guaranteed gluten-free, adn it was a very nice restaurant. Pork chop w/ collards. The collards had some kind of vinegar in them ... probably "white" (=corn). I skipped the sauce (probably corn starch). I had a few small bites of fruit leather before leaving. I ate a LOT of food (mostly meat) yesterday. I've needed an afternoon meal several days this week.

                      Was up 3lb the day after eating the sweet potato. Sheesh! Heavy sweet potato, lol.

                      Still at 142ish. Unbelievable. I have no idea what is causing all this bloating & water retention. Every other time this has happened, I could point to something I ate, and it always, ALWAYS went away in a week. It has been nearly a month!!
                      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                      Comment


                      • I felt extreme leg soreness & tiredness this morning, along with sleepiness, all the way through taking a 45m nap this afternoon. Then I felt fine.

                        Poisoning while eating out last night?

                        I had a bunch (20gm?) of d-ribose tonight to test if I was right about it making me dizzy (plus I couldn't put it down; despite what "they" say, my body treats the taste like any other sweet taste and obsesses for more of it). Yep, it made me dizzy just like too much sugar or fruit, AND the dizziness an hour later is to the point that I'm shaky, have to work hard to function mentally, and lol my blood sugar is 55. That's not too atypical for me, but I was expecting too high, not too low.
                        5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                        Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                        Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                        Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                        ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                        Comment


                        • MamaGrok, I've been following you for over a year. Just saw your video recently and it was such a huge inspiration for me!! We used to chat on the Jack Kruse forums sometimes. My username there was diffstory.

                          We've always had similar problems which is one reason I sought you out.

                          I've noticed you seem to be doing soooo much better now that you are taking thyroid meds. I also started taking thyroid meds and have had similar progress. I am waaaay better now. No more of the zombie fatigue. Still have some issues though.

                          Anyways, just wanted to post because I discovered something recently and wanted to share...
                          I have always been a sugar-addict. I didn't realize I was though. I thought I was just always choosing to eat "bad". But after trying to go Paleo, I realized the sugar had an obsessive control over me that had made dieting impossible for years.

                          I also suspected I was having thyroid problems but didn't realize they were related. I've tried several different thyroid meds to help in the past 6 months and, recently, when I got really frustrated trying to lose weight, I decided to try HCG...don't worry, this isn't a post where I try and convince you to take HCG. )

                          Right after starting, I started seeing some AMAZING changes. I wasn't "sick" anymore! Almost every last problem I had was gone - COMPLETELY. And when I stopped the round (after 50-ish days), I had COMPLETE control over what I ate. It was AMAZING. I have always been really addicted to Coca Cola and just seeing a red aluminum can or a McDonald's sign (where I would buy a large Coke) would make me drool. But after HCG, that all went away. I couldn't believe it. I could walk past sugar and not think twice. After my round, I also stopped taking my thyroid meds after the round because I was feeling so good.

                          About a month after HCG, all of my "sick" symptoms started returning and, most importantly, the cravings started coming back and I found myself without willpower again. That was when I first started putting it altogether. Sure enough, after a lot of Googling, I found lots of other women with the same problem.

                          I've emailed Colleen several times about the HCG as she seems to be an expert with it (I had previously thought it might be all hormone related). Her thought was that it's ALL thyroid-related. She believes that HCG "boosts" your thyroid and that's why I felt so good. (Interestingly enough, I remember feeling like this when I was pregnant too and actually got down to my lowest weight ever when pregnant which makes sense since, at that time, I was producing my own HCG.)

                          So, even though I know you're taking NDT, I'm wondering if it's not enough for you? I'm no expert in fixing my thyroid. I have the same sleepiness and the same cravings and it's been hard to keep it under control. I have NDT, Naturethoid, and T3. I've been playing around with all of them for a few months and can't get the symptoms to disappear altogether, but am going to keep trying. Oddly, if I take too much of the T3, I get drowsy. I never get the hyper/over-medicated feeling from the T3.

                          Just wanted to post as I think your cravings are thyroid-related (but maybe you already knew that and I didn't read your journal back far enough!).

                          If I figure anything else out, I'll definitely be sure to share.

                          -Kelly

                          Comment


                          • HGH can be increased in your sleep. I was reading it in a book and I was surprised because I thought it only occurred when pregnant. I forget where and how I have to look through it, it's a book about firing up your metabolism and it has to do with taking GABA. I can't copy/paste from the cloud reader but basically taking GABA before bed your HGH levels rise 90 minutes after you are asleep and this helps you sleep better at night and more soundly, it also increases fat burning while you sleep too, if you still have weight to lose. The book is called Secrets to Controlling your Weight, Cravings and Mood: Understand the biochemistry of neurotransmitters and how they determine our weight and mood: Maria Emmerich: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

                            I don't know, I don't have a T issue, that I am aware of. I have found tremendous improvement in quality of sleep since I started taking 5HTP with GABA and Magnesium before bed and my cravings are gone, literally gone and it's going on a month on the supplements now. 100mg 5HTP 500mg Mg and I don't remember the dosage of the GABA. I feel cool as cucumber, before taking it I was feeling irritable and moody and I just couldn't figure out why. I wasn't sleeping well, the cravings ramped up, probably from not getting sound sleep. I think it would be worth the shot as long as it doesn't interfere with current meds you are taking. It worked the first night and I remember telling my friend that if it really takes 2-4 weeks to see significant improvement, I am going to be a rockstar in a month because I immediately felt better that first night. I had to play around with the 5HTP to see where my dose was. I took 100mg for a week then upped it to 200mg and I was having too many nightmares, so I brought it back down to 100mg and that is my sweet spot. I wake up refreshed, not hungover like you do on sleep aids. I have energy for my workouts, I don't feel like I want to stall in the middle of the day. OK, now I am rambling.
                            ~*Lori*~
                            my Primal journal : http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...-momofredheads
                            my food blog http://iamhungrywhatsfordinner.blogspot.com/

                            SW 231 as of 1/1/2012
                            CW 192

                            Comment


                            • I'm so glad for the successes y'all are having!

                              Me, last night I proved I can still eat a whole jar of (100% fruit) jam in one sitting. :headdesk:

                              Starting a Bulletproof Exec "rapid fat loss" protocol today, mostly b/c it eliminates the meats I'm eating as a possible source of bloating, so I can see if I can at least get this water/bloat weight off. Day one halfway down.

                              Results of my EMF experiment:

                              I had no idea each day whether dh had left the wifi on or off at night. DH ended up turning it off every night last week, with the idea that after a week of letting any old effect wear off, he'd start playing with it being on or off each night. However, we decided to end the experiment now that I'm doing the butter fast, b/c there are likely to be confounding effects from that.

                              I ended up with 2 of my first 4 days having episodes that I had tied to possibly being wifi-related. Headaches, unable to cope with the smallest daily stresses, wanting to curl up and hide when stresses came. The next 4 days had no episodes at all.

                              I can't say whether it's b/c I had had a chance for the wifi effects to wear off, but I can say that was the longest stretch I've had in the last two months without any episodes. The last time was the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th day of our trip to Snowshoe, WV, where we had wifi while we slept, but nothing at all on the mountain during the day, not even cellular signals.

                              Results are still tentative given this. After seeing what, if anything, the butter fast does, I will do another week where he actually randomizes having it on and off at night. I won't have to acclimate for a week first, b/c based on these tentative results, we've agreed that it's best to keep the wifi off at night for now.
                              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                              Comment


                              • Quick update:

                                - I tried a Bulletproof "Rapid Fat Loss Protocol" Fat Fast = 3 days of nothing but green tea & butter. Lost nothing. I had to have at least 1600 calories a day, though, to avoid grating hunger. I still felt starved, just not dead, at 1600.
                                - I decided that because my energy is increasing & mood is great, and b/c I am bouncing back and forth between no carbs & bingeing, and spring is nigh, I will just eat a normal person paleo diet. Or close, anyway. Just meat, veggies (avoiding the ones I know I don't digest well), even fruit. ONly whole fruit. No dried or jammed or juice forms of fruit, b/c I eat too much of them. Proved it again tonight - ate a whole $9 bag of "just Fruit" strawberries. 4 servings! My blood sugar was 181 close to an hour later. Yikes.

                                - My mood is stable at 7.5 or 8/10. Physical energy has been fabulous the last three days at 8.5 or 9/10!! It could be the increased DHEA (from 33mg to 50mg/day), lipoceutical glutathione (doubt it), or continued sleeping without wifi on & adding grounding sheet at night. Despite my doubts, it actually corresponds very closely to adding the grounding sheet. I'll do some blind testing of that later, as well as resuming my blind testing of the nighttime wifi.
                                - Headaches & "curl up in a corner" moments are still *gone*. Loving that.

                                - Bloating is the worst it's been in years. It's constant, and goes from bad to worse back to bad again. I am 146 now, still gaining, not losing. Obviously I gained water & some fat from the binges, but I did *not* eat 14lb of extra calories. Absolutely not. Perhaps the high carb days triggered insulin -> fat storage -> whatever, I don't know, but I feel horrible. My thighs are each up over 1.5", pants don't fit, muffin top back, huge huge bloat. I would love for this to go away, but I am feeling mentally & physically so well that I am not going to try to keep eliminating everything to eliminate the bloat. I know that "no carb" finally stopped working for this (oh, and I'm on ox bile, HCl, and protein enzymes), so I have to go back to a real diet some time.

                                I know that increasing the carbs isn't responsible for otherwise feeling better, b/c I was still no carb when the mood got so much better. I also didn't feel anything like this after bingeing, even though the binges included no wheat, straight out grains (some corn vinegar, I'm sure), or junk food.

                                I have no idea what to do about the weight game other than pray I have ended the cravings again. I have never, ever had unexplained weight gain before. I did not binge nearly bad enough or often enough to explain this. But here it is. Here I am.
                                5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                                Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                                Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                                Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                                ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                                Comment

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