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Gravyboat's Log, Stardate 59575.1

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  • Oof, 40% carb? Nature's Variety is 80% protein! I hope you can make the raw food thing work.
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    • Hey Gravy!

      Yea! Another cat owner going raw! I have one 100% raw cat and going raw saved his life - Rudi has been raw for about 3 years or so, and outside of some fluids for kidney stuff, is on no meds and gets around great...

      Once your ladies are transitioned to the taste/texture/smell of raw, here is the formula for long-term raw feeding - first, you will need a source of taurine, and I use beef heart. I can get it here at the local beef processor for just one dollar per heart - maybe you can sweettalk one of those butchers at the West Side Market... Second, you will need to have a source of minerals - in nature that would be bones, but in a pinch egg shell calcium or no-salt skin-and-bones-included canned fishes will work. Third, you will need to add some kind of organ on a regular basis - just a dab will do ya' (mostly liver). And fourth, don't be shy about adding in fatty cuts of muscle meat and connective tissue (like gristly bits).

      There is a place down this way in Columbiana called "A Place for Paws", and they make raw mixes for cats and dogs. They also ship frozen all over the place, but between shipping and the cooler charge, I don't think that is the kind of money you want to spend at the moment - but they give so much information on the web site you could make your own mixes just from their ingredient lists. When I wanted some hand-holding, I personally went there and they counselled me to no end - really nice people and really committed to raw feeding. A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - Home

      When I transitioned Rudi to raw, he took to it like a duck to water. He had been trying to steal every bit of raw he could for his entire life, and when I finally found out about the oblicate carnivore/grains bad for cats thing, it made me sick to my stomach that I had been feeding my beloved cat crap all those years while he was trying to show me what he really wanted.

      When I got tired of driving up there to buy frozen 2-lb containers, I started making my own, and would chop up a big package of chicken thighs and beef chuck (chopping the chix bones with my cleaver) along with some liver and heart, and mix it up in a huge bowl, portion in those little snack-size baggies that I then stored in a big gallon freezer bag in the freezer. Now after 3 years, Rudi is a bit cantankerous about his raw preferences: no veggie bits of any kind, no seed oils, no eggshell calcium (I have tasted it myself, and I don't think it tastes much like anything except chalk, but Rudi hates it), no chewing bones, no chicken skin, and beef preferred. Since he hasn't been eating bones, so I will be off to Columbiana for another couple of containers soon (they grind their bone so fine I defy any cat to find it...), just so his food stays in some kind of balance. His all-time favorite meal is simply straight beef heart.

      There are neat websites about making BARF (Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) for cats, and as long as they have a mix of muscle/organ/bone/fat&connective tissue/heart you really can't go wrong for the long haul.

      Hope any of this helps.
      I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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      • Thanks, Crabbcakes. I have already read A TON about it, so I knew all that already, but it's good in case anyone else who reads here is interested. I tried to get my hands on some liver and kidneys this week, but the grocery store nearest me (which often carries "weird" meat cuts) was out of organs. So I will probably have to take a regular pilgrimage to the Westside Market for that stuff. It shouldn't be too expensive, but it won't be $1/heart, either.

        I know about the proper 80-10-5-5 ratio and whatnot, but I'm not worrying about bones and organs too much at this point. I just need them to get used to the texture of flesh right now and off the crack --- I mean, dry food. They are not going to die of vitamin deficiencies in a week or two while I get them acclimated, you know?

        I'm trying several different meats right now just so they can pick which one they like better. I have pork butt, sirloin steak, turkey wing, chicken thigh, and sardines for them right now. Beeps is eating the sardines with great gusto, bones and all, so that's good. Octavia won't even try them, but she likes egg yolks, so I've been giving her yolk when I don't feel she's eaten enough meat and she won't eat any more.

        I'm starting a diary to keep track of what they eat and refuse every day so I can track patterns and see what to buy in the future. They still require a LOT of coaxing at this point to even try the meat. I have to sit on the floor and sing to them (which they love) while giving them tiny little pieces one at a time along with a few dry food crunchies, and go "GOOD GIRL!!! AWWW, GOOD GIRL!" every time they actually eat one. It should get easier. At least they're even eating it at all. It could be worse.

        Octavia LOVES peanut butter, so I'm kiiinda tempted to get some and smear it on the meat to make her eat it. I think I've seen tiny individual serving packets of it at the store, so that might be an option. The main battle right now is getting them to even taste the meat at each mealtime so that they get used to the flavor and associate it with food. They really do not want to eat it, so I'm doing all I can to make it as tempting and as much of a positive experience as possible.

        _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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        • I pretty much had the feeling that you already did the reading, but just in case you hadn't heard about some things...

          In the case of my boys, a couple of them would rather starve to death than eat raw meat, after having kibble all their lives. If your girls don't go raw all the way for a while, don't be too surprised. But on the other hand, don't give up, either. If I hear of any new tips, I'll be sure to let you know.
          I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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          • 198 today. Yay. Scratched my eye in my sleep so now it won't stop watering. Boo.

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            • Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
              198 today. Yay. Scratched my eye in my sleep so now it won't stop watering. Boo.
              Isn't life like that a lot? Big WIN and then just a little kick in the butt to keep us humble or something...
              I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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              • Yay for 198! Boo for eye.

                *gives eye the stinkeye*

                Wait, does that even make sense?
                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                Owly's Journal

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                • The more you know~~~*

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                  • So, good news: Octavia apparently loves beef baby food. It's just water and beef puree, and food stamps cover it, and she eats it right up. I got her to eat almost 2 oz of it after she refused to eat beef chunks for breakfast.

                    This greatly relieves me, because I have such a hard time getting her to eat ANYTHING. She barely ate dry food even when I was free-feeding. I almost never saw her actually eat, and she never ate much. I was thinking that when I started doing actual meals, she would eat more, but if anything she's eating less. I seriously need to take her to the vet.. She does act hungry, and has been waking me up insistently (understatement) since I switched them from free-feeding. This morning she didn't even wait for the sun to rise before she started purring right in my face.... Genevieve has a big appetite and she doesn't even wake me up, but Octavia (who won't eat) does. But then I go get them food and I warm it up, and I put it in front of them, and Octavia looks at me like "What the hell is this?" and walks away.

                    I can cajole Beeps into eating meat if I put dry food in it, and now she's actually eating around the dry and going right for the meat, which is awesome. But Octavia just walks away and I have to repeatedly call her back. I KNOW she's hungry, but she won't eat! So it's nice to discover something she actually will eat. I haven't tried sneaking any chunks into the puree yet, but that's the next step. I also got some chicken baby food, which I suspect she will also like.

                    I'm kind of wondering if she might have dental problems that make her not want to chew. Because her favorite foods are peanut butter, egg yolk, and now baby food. None of these things require chewing. That would not explain her chronic indigestion, though.

                    Again, I need to take her to the vet. I found one nearby that apparently is cheap and I think does discounts for low-income folks like myself. But apparently they don't do appointments, so you just show up and take a number, and the wait tends to be over an hour.. That would be totally fine if it were just me, but it won't be, because I don't drive. So I am going to have to somehow talk my only local friend, who is extremely busy, into sitting in a vet waiting room for over an hour. She's not going to be happy, and I'm going to feel guilty, and ughhh. People with middle-class incomes who have cars have it so fucking good they don't even know.
                    Last edited by Gravyboat; 09-22-2012, 09:17 AM.

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                    • Good news on the puree!

                      If your cat has some rotten teeth, they might not chew their food, thus indigestion. I realize cats don't need to chew that much, but crunching it up probably helps them a bit. Does she have bad breath or drool?
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                      • She does have bad breath, but it doesn't smell like "infection smell" to me. She doesn't drool unless she's REALLY happy.

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                        • Hmm... I think that stinkeye my have colloquial roots in the south, particularly the poor south (Tennessee Area?).

                          I know that it's a phrase that I have been familiar with as long as I can remember, and particularly remember some instances of people using it when I was a pretty small kid.
                          Since Bloodorchid is from the same area as I am I wonder is she has the same experience... now I have to ask.

                          Of course the lexicographers wouldn't really be able to trace it back that way since they look for it in print.
                          It also makes me wonder if the athletes that were originally being quoted as using it were southern?
                          Or if it's just a more general wider misuse/appropriation of the old-school "evil eye" like my husbands Sicilian grandmother would have made the had gesture at people for (mano cornuto- to ward off bad luck or evil eye).

                          Though it seemed to me that when sh aimed this gesture at people she was giving them a bit of the stinkeye herself. LOL
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                          • Oh, PS: 197 today.

                            And, it's a carb-up day because I've been visually blacking out when standing again, and carb days help with that. I've been eating less than 10g carbs per day lately, and I haven't done a carb day for 3 weeks, so it's time. It means I'm going to bloat for a few days, but I can deal with that.

                            I'm baking a gluten-free apple cinnamon loaf right now and eating bananas. Might go get some fries or chips later. Or some rice krispies or something. It's weird to think I can no longer eat most cereal because most of it has gluten. Not like I love cereal, but it's just weird to consider that I will never again be able to eat it.

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                            • To me carb-ups don't even sound that great anymore. Unless you count full fat/real sugar ice cream. LOL

                              I don't normally eat VLC purposefully, but it happens sometimes as my choices of carbs are restricted because of other dietary necessities (LowOx issues). And then I get tired... and when it's time to add some carbs.. I'm all blah... it sounds better than it tastes.

                              And then there is the bloat, and I hate that.
                              Last week I ate rice a few days. Not even big portions... for the carbs. And I felt bloaty all week from it.
                              Bloaty from white rice?
                              Ugh...
                              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                              • I do purposely eat VLC because it's the only way I lose weight. But eventually I always start to black out when standing, whether from not eating enough because I'm just not hungry, or because not enough sugar. I dunno. But carb-ups help, so I do them.

                                I normally save carb-ups for days when I'm going out for food with someone and want to be able to eat freely from the menu. But that hasn't happened in a while, so I'm taking matters into my own hands.

                                I'm with you, though. It's not especially satisfying. Maybe it would be if I could gorge on maple glaze doughnuts (YESSSSS) and cake and ice cream (YESSSSSS), but I have to avoid wheat (and, to some extent, dairy) like the plague, so it severely limits my options. There are some good things, but it takes some thinking to avoid wheat/dairy. Split pea soup with ham, enchiladas with rice and beans, chili cheese fries, frozen yogurt, loaded potato skins, baked apples with caramel... etc.

                                But unless I'm eating out (which I currently cannot afford to do), I pretty much just keep it simple: bananas, juice, potatoes of some sort. Because I always cook enough to feed an army, and it seems pointless to buy ingredients for stuff I can only eat for one day, then I have to throw out any leftovers. Maybe I should just freeze leftovers. But I dunno, it seems too tempting for days I don't feel like cooking. Better to keep the contraband out of the house.

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