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  • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
    Why do you want to be masculine? Is that a synonym for strong to you?
    Kind of? Not really? I don't know? It's important to distinguish "masculinity" from "like a man", I think. I don't think men are necessary strong. I think a lot of women are stronger. I really think people are just people; some are strong and some are weak, and it doesn't have much to do with what genitals you have.

    That said, when I personally think of "masculinity", I think of traits such as: terse, resilient, dutiful, hard-working, physically capable, earthy (like, callused hands stained with dirt/oil from a long day's work), the "strong, silent type", etc. Basically think of the best traits of male manual laborers. Think of male camaraderie. Think of quiet, understated, yet unbreakably-strong masculine affection, and everything that can be said with a nod and a pat on the shoulder.

    That is stuff I identify with.

    Then there are "feminine" qualities, like: being nurturing, caring, understanding, graciously enduring hardships imposed on you by others, trying hard to make others happy, social, makes friends easily, talkative, has domain over the home and family, gentle, small, pretty, delicate, etc.

    That is stuff I don't really identify with. And when I have tried to be that sort of person, I have felt like a total imposter.

    Anyone can be either of those things or a mix of the two, no matter your sex. Of course, it's socially celebrated to be the one that corresponds with your sex. Which is why I have spent so many years trying to stuff myself into the feminine box, even though I feel like I don't belong there at all.

    I am also into history, and basically if you were a woman back in the day, you were at home doing housework and raising children. I don't see myself in that at all. If I lived in the past, I would have wanted to do "manly" things, like be a blacksmith or a lumberjack, or train for armed combat. And I am into historical clothing, so if I was looking to dress up for the ren fest or something, I would be looking at mens clothing, basically, because that's the clothing that corresponds to what I am most interested in.

    The masculine clothing I am looking forward to getting when I have reached my weight goal is also historical, "classic"-type stuff, because I like historical clothing. I want to do something called dapper style. Lots of tweed blazers and sweater vests and well-tailored pants, and a lot of interesting color combinations, which is my absolute favorite. I love playing with colors and textures, which is why I have been able to find joy in feminine clothing for so long. I am not a jeans-and-tshirt kind of person and never have been, and when I had short hair in the past, I was pretty much limited to that because of my size and because I had no money for anything nice. So it sucked and I hated it. I felt ugly partly because I had zero creative outlet in my clothing. So that is something I want to do different this time.

    Why not be strong and feminine and badass?
    Because I'm not happy being feminine, and I see "feminine strength" as kind of a joke, honestly. Blame it on my being a crusty old rad-fem, but I believe femininity was created for women to make them weak. Particularly the physical aspects of femininity (small, thin, no visible muscles, delicate clothing that you can't run in, toxic makeup in which you can't touch your face without smudging things, etc). Setting aside the fact that most "feminine" things are done in order to "please your man"... Why would I want to do things that make me actually weaker? Why would I want to have to worry about that crap? For social approval, and that's about it. And I've decided that that's not a good enough reason anymore.

    _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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    • Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
      Because I'm not happy being feminine, and I see "feminine strength" as kind of a joke, honestly. Blame it on my being a crusty old rad-fem, but I believe femininity was created for women to make them weak. Particularly the physical aspects of femininity (small, thin, no visible muscles, delicate clothing that you can't run in, toxic makeup in which you can't touch your face without smudging things, etc). Setting aside the fact that most "feminine" things are done in order to "please your man"... Why would I want to do things that make me actually weaker?
      So you don't see Michelle Jenneke as being sexy or feminine? She's not small, thin, no visible muscles, makeup etc.

      At the end of the day the LGN factor is more important than accessorising the right clothes IMHO. I think that being physically capable and having muscles is quite an attractive trait in a woman.
      Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
      Why would I want to have to worry about that crap? For social approval, and that's about it. And I've decided that that's not a good enough reason anymore.
      I agree with you about that. You should do things that make you like yourself.
      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

      Griff's cholesterol primer
      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
      bloodorchid is always right

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
        The masculine clothing I am looking forward to getting when I have reached my weight goal is also historical, "classic"-type stuff, because I like historical clothing. I want to do something called dapper style. Lots of tweed blazers and sweater vests and well-tailored pants, and a lot of interesting color combinations, which is my absolute favorite. .
        In the midst of a serious topic, all I have to add is unf, work that look, it's the hotness.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
          So you don't see Michelle Jenneke as being sexy or feminine? She's not small, thin, no visible muscles, makeup etc.
          There are pages and pages of dudes drooling over her for being super hot, and she's smiling real pretty and wiggling her hips around in skimpy clothes like a fucking stripper. How do you think I'd categorize that? Masculine?

          It's obviously not a rigid, exhaustive list of traits. Although I would argue that she is pretty small and thin.

          _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

          Comment


          • I just tried to think of the opposite of what you listed as what was wrong with being feminine, and she sprang to mind. I agree that the overreaction to her 'wiggling' is a little silly. I only was aware of her because of a gif that Saiorse posted in another thread.

            It seems like you think that the woman is subjugated in most relationships.
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

            Griff's cholesterol primer
            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
            bloodorchid is always right

            Comment


            • Originally posted by unsuperb View Post
              In the midst of a serious topic, all I have to add is unf, work that look, it's the hotness.
              I hope I am able to. I'm amassing a collection of pictures of women who pull it off real well, and hopefully I can be one of them. It'll help a lot when my hips/chest are smaller.

              _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
                I hope I am able to. I'm amassing a collection of pictures of women who pull it off real well, and hopefully I can be one of them. It'll help a lot when my hips/chest are smaller.
                I'm of the opinion that fashion can be made to fit anyone; clothes can be altered or made to flatter any figure, it's just knowing what suits your shape. When I was fat n' sassy (as opposed to not-quite-so-fat n' sour, currently), I fully took advantage of things that flattered my body, even though I wasn't 100% in love with my appearance. I could totally picture you now is some dapper apparel . . . and possibly a fedora (but maybe that's because I can't pull them off).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                  So you don't see Michelle Jenneke as being sexy or feminine? She's not small, thin, no visible muscles, makeup etc.
                  . . .
                  It's kind of funny that you use an athlete as your example given that a huge issue, imo, with women in athletics is the commodification and sexualization of their bodies. In order to avoid being viewed as a dyke, hyper-feminization occurs, which she so clearly demonstrates. She's wearing very little, is wearing make-up and has a manicure, wears a little bowtie in her hair (which is long), and what the shit is up with that dance? None of this enhances her performance (beyond possibly on a psychological level). And in the range of body types that exist in athletics, she's on the small size. Using this chicka SAMANTHA WRIGHT - YouTube would make a better case, but it's all kind of silly.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by unsuperb View Post
                    . . .
                    It's kind of funny that you use an athlete as your example given that a huge issue, imo, with women in athletics is the commodification and sexualization of their bodies. In order to avoid being viewed as a dyke, hyper-feminization occurs, which she so clearly demonstrates. She's wearing very little, is wearing make-up and has a manicure, wears a little bowtie in her hair (which is long), and what the shit is up with that dance? None of this enhances her performance (beyond possibly on a psychological level). And in the range of body types that exist in athletics, she's on the small size. Using this chicka SAMANTHA WRIGHT - YouTube would make a better case, but it's all kind of silly.
                    Word.

                    _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

                    Comment


                    • So you're wanting to feel attractive, but not in a way a man would like. Yes?
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by unsuperb View Post
                        In the midst of a serious topic, all I have to add is unf, work that look, it's the hotness.
                        May I just add another unf to the pile, regarding the 'dapper' look.

                        I had to think about the hair for a bit, because my particular brain structure prefers to process changes slowly, but I've decided that I *like* your pixie cut. It has a cute, smart attitude to it.

                        About long hair and men, I don't know. My hair's long, and I don't attract men - I'm thinking it's most likely due to my body size. Most men in the world would rather do anything else than talk to me, I've noticed.

                        Comment


                        • Just wanted to remind you that you rule. I don't have much to say on all this, but your thoughts on what having short hair means to you is making me re-think what my hair (currently, pink and about mid-cheek in length) means to me and how I present myself/how I feel about presenting myself. You rule for thinking about these things. You rule for taking care of yourself. You rule for giving a damn, even if it means there is anxiety and insecurity attached to it. You are a strong person becoming stronger.
                          Depression Lies

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            So you're wanting to feel attractive, but not in a way a man would like. Yes?
                            I want to feel attractive in a way that I think reflects who I am inside: predominantly masculine. Which, yeah, most men aren't into. Some men are into it. But, frankly, I don't really give a fuck if men are into it, because my choices aren't about pleasing them, it's about being true to myself even if no one else likes it.

                            Originally posted by Spubba View Post
                            May I just add another unf to the pile, regarding the 'dapper' look.

                            I had to think about the hair for a bit, because my particular brain structure prefers to process changes slowly, but I've decided that I *like* your pixie cut. It has a cute, smart attitude to it.
                            I'm still deciding if I like it too, honestly. I sorta wish I'd left it a couple inches longer in the front, but it is hair and it will grow out.

                            Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                            Just wanted to remind you that you rule. I don't have much to say on all this, but your thoughts on what having short hair means to you is making me re-think what my hair (currently, pink and about mid-cheek in length) means to me and how I present myself/how I feel about presenting myself. You rule for thinking about these things. You rule for taking care of yourself. You rule for giving a damn, even if it means there is anxiety and insecurity attached to it. You are a strong person becoming stronger.
                            Well I'm glad someone thinks that's a positive attribute! Sometimes I feel like I just work myself into a froth for no reason and I should really just calm down and stop overthinking everything. Like, why can't I just be satisfied with something and move on? But, I can't. It's just how I am. I don't like doing anything without thinking of every tiny implication. Every choice we make is seen by other people as an endorsement of some kind, and I just think it's really important to make sure I'm sending the right endorsements. But then, on the other hand, I think it's important that I not get too caught up in social signals and do what I think is true to myself.

                            So basically I end up hashing and rehashing every decision I make, and I almost never feel 100% decided one way or another. I almost never feel completely happy with my decisions in the end, I always just end up trying to stuff in all the loose ends and try to be satisfied with that. Unfortunately, I tend to be able to see things in lots of different ways, and every side of the issue has its own weight. So I tend to feel like I'm being pulled 8 ways at once just deciding what shirt to wear sometimes. And no matter what I decide, about anything, it's usually in opposition to something else I think is equally important.

                            For me, it seems like life is a never-ending search for choices that don't leave me feeling vaguely unhappy and conflicted. I'm not sure I've ever found anything that doesn't, but I do keep trying new things in hope.

                            And I hope that when I have reached my goal weight and I'm buying lots of nice new clothes, I am happy enough that I won't start waffling again like I always seem to. I think I'll be happy. But I never really know with me. Which is why I'm glad I'm doing this now, when I'll have built-in waffle protection (lack of pretty hair and fitted feminine clothes to fall back on). The last time I tried this, I panicked due to my horribly boring, extremely limited, ill-fitting, jeans-and-tshirt mens wardrobe, and started wearing my pretty, quality skirts again because they still fit me and I still had them. Not this time! I'll save up money to buy nice, beautiful, quality clothing that I actually like, and they'll fit my body better, and I'll be able to play with colors and textures, and it should be a lot more enjoyable.

                            I just have to save up the money somehow...

                            _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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                            • PS: 208lbs today. 34" / 46". Still squishy, though a lot less so than before.

                              _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
                                Well I'm glad someone thinks that's a positive attribute! Sometimes I feel like I just work myself into a froth for no reason and I should really just calm down and stop overthinking everything. Like, why can't I just be satisfied with something and move on? But, I can't. It's just how I am. I don't like doing anything without thinking of every tiny implication. Every choice we make is seen by other people as an endorsement of some kind, and I just think it's really important to make sure I'm sending the right endorsements. But then, on the other hand, I think it's important that I not get too caught up in social signals and do what I think is true to myself.

                                So basically I end up hashing and rehashing every decision I make, and I almost never feel 100% decided one way or another. I almost never feel completely happy with my decisions in the end, I always just end up trying to stuff in all the loose ends and try to be satisfied with that. Unfortunately, I tend to be able to see things in lots of different ways, and every side of the issue has its own weight. So I tend to feel like I'm being pulled 8 ways at once just deciding what shirt to wear sometimes. And no matter what I decide, about anything, it's usually in opposition to something else I think is equally important.

                                For me, it seems like life is a never-ending search for choices that don't leave me feeling vaguely unhappy and conflicted. I'm not sure I've ever found anything that doesn't, but I do keep trying new things in hope.
                                Welcome to my head? Well, how it used to be. After doing the primal thing for some time, and with the help of amino acids to help my depression and anxiety, I very suddenly started getting some relief from the constant self-questioning and doubt. I actually let go of some personal past turmoils. It was shocking. Now I'm not on anything for mood support, and the relief continues. So I get the "just how I am", but I believe if it's something you wish was different, it could be different. Part of the reason I am the way I am though is from growing up with the constant self-doubt. I am in the midst of growing my hair out, but every now and then I go through periods of "Do I really want to do this?" and question it all over again. It grows back, yes, but I know I hate the growing back period. Blah blah blah, not really coherently rambling here, anyway, I guess I'm wondering how much regular anxiety you feel (and felt before going primal) and if you've considered "treating" it beyond just a good diet.
                                Depression Lies

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