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  • Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
    DDs for me work if I have a good UD. I don't know how people who eat lots of carbs do this...it nearly drives me insane on a DD...the cravings! I have concluded, however, that I cannot do a strict EMF + UD/DD successfully. I cannot eat enough calories on an UD (with all of my restrictions!) to make it through a DD. Which isn't to say that I don't eat more fat than the average bear -- I do (fact is, at about 65%, I'm at the low end of most EMF protocols). But, to get the calories right, I either have to have more carbs or more protein (or some combo of both). But, since I gave EMF 3 full months and didn't get anywhere, I'm willing to be a bit more relaxed about it...assuming I see some "new" weight loss.
    What does JUDDD say about Macros because I agree, I can NOT follow both protocols on UD. dd's everything is low I try to get my percentagees right but ud's are a mess.

    Originally posted by demuralist View Post
    Ruth, it is my memory that you were not reaching your calories on your ud's, is that true. Because if it is that may be the key according to my supporters at the JUDDD thread. Because I seem to remember that you were doing pretty well with your dd's. I also seem to remember that although you were unimpressed your weight seemed to have a downward trend.

    And yes, my current criteria for my WOE is doable for life (I don't feel deprived nor does it make me crazy trying to keep up with the details) and downward trending scale numbers. I am confident that a version of JUDD is doable for life, I just need to figure out which version also leads to the downward trending scale numbers.
    I think set appointed days and the way you set up the weekends will make this more doable for me as well.

    Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
    I have been frustrated...but mostly because I have not lost any NEW weight. It's the exact same weight I've been playing with since before Christmas. After 4 weeks of UD/DD, I "lost" 2 pounds, but never getting back to my lowest low in the last 3 months. I stalled completely in Week 3 and gained in Week 4 (my typical pattern). [Maintenance week 5 is not looking so good after my birthday "refeed", even though my average calories over the past 7 days...even past 2 days...is perfectly respectable and in range.]

    Having said all that............ DDs are (generally) very easy for me, assuming I have a good UD. But, I cannot eat up to my UD calories (which you'll note is when I was losing weight...but was also in my usual 2 week loss pattern) and keep a true EMF protocol. I do think it could be a problem, based on what the very successful JUDDD forum ladies say, that I am not eating near my UD calories. I have to decide -- either eat more protein (and/or carbs) or know that I'm not "truly" doing the JUDDD protocol (I'm only doing some other version of very lo cal). It's why I'm attempting a maintenance week - I need a break to get my head on straight
    I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to do Primal the way Mark wrote it but I GAIN horribly.

    So whats the answer? More protein or more carbs?
    Karin


    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

    What am I doing? Depends on the day.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
      DDs for me work if I have a good UD. I don't know how people who eat lots of carbs do this...it nearly drives me insane on a DD...the cravings! I have concluded, however, that I cannot do a strict EMF + UD/DD successfully. I cannot eat enough calories on an UD (with all of my restrictions!) to make it through a DD. Which isn't to say that I don't eat more fat than the average bear -- I do (fact is, at about 65%, I'm at the low end of most EMF protocols). But, to get the calories right, I either have to have more carbs or more protein (or some combo of both). But, since I gave EMF 3 full months and didn't get anywhere, I'm willing to be a bit more relaxed about it...assuming I see some "new" weight loss.
      What does JUDDD say about Macros because I agree, I can NOT follow both protocols on UD. dd's everything is low I try to get my percentagees right but ud's are a mess.

      Originally posted by demuralist View Post
      Ruth, it is my memory that you were not reaching your calories on your ud's, is that true. Because if it is that may be the key according to my supporters at the JUDDD thread. Because I seem to remember that you were doing pretty well with your dd's. I also seem to remember that although you were unimpressed your weight seemed to have a downward trend.

      And yes, my current criteria for my WOE is doable for life (I don't feel deprived nor does it make me crazy trying to keep up with the details) and downward trending scale numbers. I am confident that a version of JUDD is doable for life, I just need to figure out which version also leads to the downward trending scale numbers.
      I think set appointed days and the way you set up the weekends will make this more doable for me as well.

      Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
      I have been frustrated...but mostly because I have not lost any NEW weight. It's the exact same weight I've been playing with since before Christmas. After 4 weeks of UD/DD, I "lost" 2 pounds, but never getting back to my lowest low in the last 3 months. I stalled completely in Week 3 and gained in Week 4 (my typical pattern). [Maintenance week 5 is not looking so good after my birthday "refeed", even though my average calories over the past 7 days...even past 2 days...is perfectly respectable and in range.]

      Having said all that............ DDs are (generally) very easy for me, assuming I have a good UD. But, I cannot eat up to my UD calories (which you'll note is when I was losing weight...but was also in my usual 2 week loss pattern) and keep a true EMF protocol. I do think it could be a problem, based on what the very successful JUDDD forum ladies say, that I am not eating near my UD calories. I have to decide -- either eat more protein (and/or carbs) or know that I'm not "truly" doing the JUDDD protocol (I'm only doing some other version of very lo cal). It's why I'm attempting a maintenance week - I need a break to get my head on straight
      I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to do Primal the way Mark wrote it but I GAIN horribly.

      So whats the answer? More protein or more carbs?
      Karin


      Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

      What am I doing? Depends on the day.

      Comment


      • JUDDD says what you eat for the calories don't matter basically. That your ud should be essentially what ever you were craving as long as you fall within your calorie limits. Personally I think that long term that would bite me in the butt.

        I am not having trouble getting my macro percentages, but I don't have any real dietary restrictions as pre-tracked- I am not as successful at eating them correctly, yet. But I truly think that doing the liquid diet on M/W/F is going to make it easier as I can just adjust the ingredients of the smoothie as needed. I like it, so far, much better than trying to just eat the 500 calories.

        p.s. straight Primal didn't work for me either, or I would not have kept experimenting. Although now I am curious as to what I was doing when I got down to the 250 mark since I have been on MDA. I was doing Paul McKenna (mindful eating) to hit the 230 mark on Spark People.

        p.p.s. I just checked, March 2012 was while we were doing SPEED My macro %'s were closer to 50% fat, 35% Protein, and 16% net carbs, my calories were anywhere from 1400 to 2100. So maybe I should ease up on the macros and just focus on the JUDDD
        Last edited by demuralist; 04-08-2013, 09:06 AM.
        Chris
        "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
        Unknown

        My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

        My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

        Comment


        • Well then on my ud's, I am not going to stress or worry. On those days I am eating more veggies (you heard it here Chris). The majority of my overage on carbs come from there since I am dairy free (I have to remember CM has carbs too). I think ud's are just basic primal days- thought pretty low carb for me.
          Karin


          Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

          What am I doing? Depends on the day.

          Comment


          • yeah!!!!

            Actually that is what I am going to do as well, go for the low starch veggies on ud's.

            On my W/F dd's I will do bone broth/bouillon/butter for "lunch" - while I am at home it doesn't appeal, so I will make another smoothie. I am curious to see how my morning smoothie-which had no veggies in it and an egg-holds up versus my lunch and dinner ones-which I am going to use egg whites and veggies in, spinach at lunch and cukes at dinner. I wanted to allow myself a cup of tea with HWC at the end of the night.

            I am having a pretty good day so far. I am keeping with my (non)food plan, I have done the laundry including DH's dress clothes, I have gotten my hair colored, and I did my errands (grocery, post office, bank, and drop off something at church). I would feel fantastic if my TTOM would stop pounding my abdomen and lower back!
            Chris
            "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
            Unknown

            My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

            My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

            Comment


            • Ok, so I walked in the door from rifle irritated. Ms. "organizer" wants us (DS and I) to come help park cars tomorrow because we haven't parked this year yet. I already told her we volunteer in other ways and we would not be parking cars, we have already done more than our share. DS has been a member of the team for 5 years and helped park cars every other year (most of the team members are only there 1 or 2 years). Parking cars is a fund raiser. Anyway, we run a "Friday Knights" fun night once a month for team building, I have painted 3 murals for them as well as painting the range itself (I donated the paint as well), I have sat in practices for the first 3 years so that the team could practice (there has to be a female coach present if female members are there). We have organized the family get to know ya every year, which requires not only coordinating food and drinks but also setting up a range in the gym on the 3rd floor-carrying all the backstops up the stairs.

              I ate a piece of cheese and some celery. Total emotional eating, but luckily I stopped before it went too far. I am actually impressed that is all I ate. So see, I am improving!
              Chris
              "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
              Unknown

              My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

              My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

              Comment


              • SW 2/26/13 =274.8
                CW=270.0 down 3.2 and second day of TTOM
                Sleep= 7:21 93% efficiency
                Urine Ketones= didn't bother
                Blood Ketones= LO
                FBS= out of sticks
                Calories = 661
                Net Carbs = 14g/8%
                Fat= 55g/72%
                Protein= 33g/19%
                KR = 1.46 I think this is supposed to be about the same as "optimal ketones" so 1.0 to 3.0?

                So I begin to wonder if some people just don't show ketones either in urine or in blood? We shall see what a full week of this does, but I think I am just wasting stix.

                Yesterday was not exactly as planned, but it was still reasonable. And I let go of significant water weight! Spent most of the day going to the bathroom.

                Today is an ud, so life is easy.
                Chris
                "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                Unknown

                My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                  Ok, so I walked in the door from rifle irritated. Ms. "organizer" wants us (DS and I) to come help park cars tomorrow because we haven't parked this year yet. I already told her we volunteer in other ways and we would not be parking cars, we have already done more than our share. DS has been a member of the team for 5 years and helped park cars every other year (most of the team members are only there 1 or 2 years). Parking cars is a fund raiser. Anyway, we run a "Friday Knights" fun night once a month for team building, I have painted 3 murals for them as well as painting the range itself (I donated the paint as well), I have sat in practices for the first 3 years so that the team could practice (there has to be a female coach present if female members are there). We have organized the family get to know ya every year, which requires not only coordinating food and drinks but also setting up a range in the gym on the 3rd floor-carrying all the backstops up the stairs.

                  I ate a piece of cheese and some celery. Total emotional eating, but luckily I stopped before it went too far. I am actually impressed that is all I ate. So see, I am improving!
                  I applaud your self control!

                  Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                  SW 2/26/13 =274.8
                  CW=270.0 down 3.2 and second day of TTOM
                  Sleep= 7:21 93% efficiency
                  Urine Ketones= didn't bother
                  Blood Ketones= LO
                  FBS= out of sticks
                  Calories = 661
                  Net Carbs = 14g/8%
                  Fat= 55g/72%
                  Protein= 33g/19%
                  KR = 1.46 I think this is supposed to be about the same as "optimal ketones" so 1.0 to 3.0?

                  So I begin to wonder if some people just don't show ketones either in urine or in blood? We shall see what a full week of this does, but I think I am just wasting stix.

                  Yesterday was not exactly as planned, but it was still reasonable. And I let go of significant water weight! Spent most of the day going to the bathroom.

                  Today is an ud, so life is easy.
                  Who knows about ketones- they are often elusive to me. Yeah for the loss though!
                  Karin


                  Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                  What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                  Comment


                  • Hooray for losing water weight! I know my pants don't feel right, even if it's "just water".

                    Over on Low Carb friends, I think so people had a dickens of a time ever getting into NK...even after a few weeks of very low protein and carbs. I don't know. If you continue to see a downward trend, though, not sure it matters?

                    I think I would have done more than you after Rifle practice (almost over, though, right?)....
                    -- Ruth

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                      JUDDD says what you eat for the calories don't matter basically. That your ud should be essentially what ever you were craving as long as you fall within your calorie limits. Personally I think that long term that would bite me in the butt.

                      I am not having trouble getting my macro percentages, but I don't have any real dietary restrictions as pre-tracked- I am not as successful at eating them correctly, yet. But I truly think that doing the liquid diet on M/W/F is going to make it easier as I can just adjust the ingredients of the smoothie as needed. I like it, so far, much better than trying to just eat the 500 calories.

                      p.s. straight Primal didn't work for me either, or I would not have kept experimenting. Although now I am curious as to what I was doing when I got down to the 250 mark since I have been on MDA. I was doing Paul McKenna (mindful eating) to hit the 230 mark on Spark People.

                      p.p.s. I just checked, March 2012 was while we were doing SPEED My macro %'s were closer to 50% fat, 35% Protein, and 16% net carbs, my calories were anywhere from 1400 to 2100. So maybe I should ease up on the macros and just focus on the JUDDD
                      I wonder if semi-low carb, moderate protein, slightly higher fat + JUDDD is going to really help? [I don't know about the carbs for me, but I think that's a different issue]
                      -- Ruth

                      Comment


                      • I know, I am thinking that I need to figure out why I stopped SPEED, if I just got impatient because I hit a slow down or I just started tweaking because I am apt to do that when I weigh daily. I think for right now I am going to focus on JUDDD and reasonably low carb, as you say, moderate protein, and bumping the fat up a bit from the SPEED numbers, but not be fanatic about the macros. Basically just give up on the NK for now and if it happens then it happens.
                        Chris
                        "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                        Unknown

                        My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                        My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by demuralist View Post


                          Today is an ud, so life is easy.
                          For me, today is easy because it is a Down(not eating) Day!

                          Comment


                          • I know, right. I got down to 155 on SPEED in decently short order. I think I stopped because: (i) I did a crazy round of traveling and gained weight (couldn't maintain my SPEED calories on the road -- and not enough time at home to plan foods to take, etc.); (ii) got so low fat that I lost my satisfaction/satiety with eating; (iii) started tweaking (I think that was about the time I started reading about Dr. Wahl's -- I thought all those extra veggies would help, but I don't think so); and (iv) started working out a ton, and couldn't find the right calorie levels (and, lots and lots more travel).
                            -- Ruth

                            Comment


                            • So I just went back into my journal and it looks like I just evolved out of SPEED? I don't really remember even the "rules" of it. I will go back tonight and read the pertinent part of the book.

                              The thing that is bothering me right now on EMF, is the near total lack of veggies. I really need to think about this, because veggies don't have an ill effect on me, and I really like them, and they are nice plate fillers.
                              Chris
                              "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                              Unknown

                              My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                              My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                              Comment


                              • I think what EMF taught me is that fat is not the enemy. It provides satisfaction, helps food digest, etc. NK, however, I think was too extreme for me...or, I don't think I ever really got into it, not without just eating gobs of fat and hardly anything else. I do remember that on SPEED, I let the fat go too low, because I wanted volume. On SPEED, I think it taught me that calories DO matter -- for me, at least. JUDDD gives me the ability to relax a little, but still have calorie control. Had I been doing UD/DD when doing SPEED, I wonder if I would have survived my travel...
                                -- Ruth

                                Comment

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