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    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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    • ah, see our efforts to be extreme so that we could lose the fat bit us in the butt.

      I would still love to know why I don't seem to register ketones. I will test tomorrow morning as it looks like (assuming the rest of my day goes well) I am very low carb and low cal today. We shall see what it says. I keep forgetting to get more blood sugar testing strips though.
      Chris
      "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
      Unknown

      My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

      My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

      Comment


      • I think we are all making this too hard (and I'm the leader of going down the "hard" trail). As opposed to NK (which I think is STRICT), there's also Barry Groves Eat Fat Get Thin, which I frankly think is like Primal and SPEED (except we need to adjust that crazy protein requirement on SPEED - that seems high for women at higher weights!).

        1. Looking back at your data, at what calorie level do you lose weight? I thought you were losing at 1700 calories? [Maybe not] Personally, I'd pick the highest number and go down from there If I estimate your BMR, and I assume little to no activity (it's what I assume), then I get 2121. If I then do a 20% reduction, I get 1697 calories.... If you go all the way down to a 40% reduction, you are at 1272. Honestly, when I was at your weight, I could lose at around 1700 calories. When I was in the 170s/180s, then I needed around 1400, 160s, 12-1300, and now (based on my results and past history) less.

        I still think, and my own experience going from 240 to 160 (albeit in the slowest path possible), this is more important than the macros for weight loss (although the macros then make life bearable).

        * What level of protein do you need? I've seen every number in the world. I stress protein because I don't want us losing any more LBM (and by this, I don't just mean "muscle", but bone, etc.) than necessary. Mark says .7-1 g of LBM. Optimal diet says +/- 10% goal weight. Assuming 150 lb goal weight....that puts you between 61 and 75 using OD. For Mark's formula, assuming you 114 lb LBM (who knows if my estimate is close), that would put you between 80 and 114 g per day or between 319 and 456 calories (of pure protein grams per day). I think we need to be mindful of protein, not get too much, but recognize that without nuts or dairy, fat is more challenging to get and protein may have to go a bit higher.
        * Next, assume you get between 15 and 20 g carb per day, which is another 80 calories.
        * Let the rest be fat.

        Anyway, some food for thought. I think we could all use to lighten up a bit about pure macros and target the calories in a way that makes sense...while keeping the general macro goal in mind.

        Here's a sample of a 1,500 calorie day (about a 30% reduction) - which seems like it would keep you totally satisfied and happy, but still with a pretty good loss.

        Breakfast Calories Carbs Fat Protein
        Eggs - Whole, raw, 3 large 221 1 15 19
        Purity Farms - Organic Ghee Clarified Butter, 3 tsp. (5 g) 135 0 15 0
        Pork - Cured, bacon, cooked, pan-fried, 2 slice cooked 84 0 6 6
        440 1 36 25

        Lunch
        Beef - Ground, 85% lean meat / 15% fat, patty, cooked, broiled (hamburger), 1 patty ( yield from 1/4 lb raw meat ) 193 0 12 20
        Santa Fe Ole - Green Chile Sauce, 1 oz 10 2 0 1
        Cucumber - Peeled, raw, 1 medium 24 4 0 1
        Homemade - Grass Fed Beef Bone Broth, 8 oz 69 1 4 6
        296 7 16 28

        Dinner
        Chicken - Thigh, meat and skin, cooked, roasted, 3 thigh, bone removed 459 0 29 47
        459 0 29 47

        Snacks
        Endangered Species Chocolate Co - Individually Wrapped Gourmet Chocolate Supreme Dark 72% Cocoa Content, 4 pieces 200 19 16 3
        Sunbutter--Organic - Sunbutter--Unsweetened, 1 Tbs. 110 3 10 3
        Add Food* 310 22 26 6



        Totals 1,505 30 107 106
        -- Ruth

        Comment


        • Wow what a good friend you are Ruth! I totally agree. I am getting to a place where i believe that within reason the macros really make the most difference when we are talking about satiety and thus hopefully keeps us out of a binge situation.
          Chris
          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
          Unknown

          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

          Comment


          • I am back!! Tonight I am suppose to have internet installed at home, which will make things so much easier and not make me put things on hold until I can get to a wifi. Where I live though, still not TV unless we want satalitte which I do not.

            Ok.. finally found my speed book. Actually, I saved me download pag from SPEED and downloaded it again. Thank goodness because I coul;d not find my external harddrive where I have a copy! I also found my SPEEd journal.

            I started SPEED at 304.5 (OMG talk about your up and down), I do not see data for my macros there but I do see data when my weight went to 290. It was 1508-1658, 50g carbs (WOW that seems so high when I look at it now), 157g protein and 92g fat. It looks like I quit losing and possibly its because protein was too high?? When I was on EMF I was eating @ 1700 calories and losing.

            So perhaps I need to start at @1700 calories, 20g carbs, between 80-114 g protein and the rest fat. Oh good heavens I need to do some calculating... is it 4 calories per g of protein and carbs and 9 per fat gram?

            Ruth- you are awesome for looking into all this! Love ya sistah!
            Karin


            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

            What am I doing? Depends on the day.

            Comment


            • Karin that sounds like a totally reasonable place to start. And yes it is 4 calories/g for both protein and carb and 9/g for fat.

              I wonder if you did a couple of days (or a week) where you kept to the 1700 calories and the 20g or so carbs but let the fat and protein fall where they will and see where you land naturally and if that would give you a downward trend on the scale? Then you would have some data points, and if you lost week on top of that you would know you don't have to be so hard nosed about the macros.

              Hope I am not confusing the issue here.
              Chris
              "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
              Unknown

              My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

              My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

              Comment


              • Thats a good point Chris. Easpecially because when I calculated the macros I set about my calories would run 1228-1364 which is too low to start. I think I do not lose with calories that low, at least now.
                Karin


                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                Comment


                • Here's my theory. You would initially lose weight at between 1200 to 1300, but you might well be pretty unhappy. But then you would plateau. And probably hard. We all do.... Only, at that point, you now don't have a lot of wiggle room. That's okay if you're getting close to goal, you can go down a hair. Or, you can wait it out, and I suspect it would be a decently long wait. But, I know us all, we have no patience to wait out a plateau, especially since we are not looking at those last 10 "vanity" pounds (oh, how I wish...). [BTW, I was using too low of a weight for your BMI...a 25% reduction is 1775 calories, so I think 1600-1700 calories is a really good place to start.]

                  Woo hoo on the internet.
                  -- Ruth

                  Comment


                  • And I agree with Chris. Keep the carbs between 20 and 30 and just let the protein and fat fall out at first and see if you lose weight. If not, then you could tweak macros (and you'd have a good comparison of where you naturally fall out).
                    -- Ruth

                    Comment


                    • If you don't like JUDDD, it's just too hard to keep up. Maybe you have too much stress in your life for Down Days to even be feasible. Good luck finding what works and is sustainable.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sabine View Post
                        If you don't like JUDDD, it's just too hard to keep up. Maybe you have too much stress in your life for Down Days to even be feasible. Good luck finding what works and is sustainable.
                        there is probably some merit to the stress and that making this harder than it probably should be.

                        Ruth- I think you are right with the lack of wiggle room going too low. I had not thought of it like that before. So, until Next Friday I am going to stick with carbs between 20-30, let the fat and protein fall where they may and shoot for 1600-1700 calories to start.
                        Karin


                        Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                        What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                        Comment


                        • yep, and to start I would lean toward the high end, for the same reason Ruth mentioned. wiggle room for plateaus. Also, there is no hurry for the weight loss, as long as the trend is steadily down, and higher calories allow for more enjoyment and variety, especially in the beginning. I think one of the things I tend to do is jump in really hard and then it starts to feel extreme and little cheats begin. Getting low carb for me was way easier the second time I did it because I just kept slowly going lower. The first time I jumped in and felt like crap for months.
                          Chris
                          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                          Unknown

                          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                          Comment


                          • Ok.. so today is really my official start of the new plan. My birthday may skew things a bit as we are going out for Mexican (I think) or Montana Mikes. Montana Mikes would be more friendly to my plan. Tomorrow we are going to an archeology thing (I dont know if festival is the right word) which sounds like fun.

                            I am still fighting this cold and downing the hot tea.

                            TGIF! More later!
                            Karin


                            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                            What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                            Comment


                            • Your birthday won't mess things up at all. Say you eat 2,000 calories...just "make up" those 300 during the week sometime - 100 calories a day - you can do that.

                              Hope the cold gets better! I hate spring colds.
                              -- Ruth

                              Comment


                              • Yep, what she says. There is no such thing as messing up, just working out the average. This is a life plan not a document etched in stone right?
                                Chris
                                "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                                Unknown

                                My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                                My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                                Comment

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