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  • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
    are you in the southern hemisphere?
    Yup. Of course, we get the worlds most awesome christmas holidays, so there's that...

    Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
    question for you guys.

    <snip>

    what should i do *if* he tests me here again?
    This is a tricky one. You've correctly identified it as a boundry issue and I think I would have done something similar to the conversation you had with him. That said, I kinda think that there are two parts.

    Firstly, I would take this opportunity to praise my eldest repeatedly for doing the right thing, emphasising that 'big people look after little people', and that I was proud of him, and that this was responsible adult behaviour.

    Secondly, in the conversation with the offending child, I would emphasise the same rule, that 'big people look after little people', and that I was disappointed in him and that he wasn't behaving like a big boy at all. I guess it's easier for me because I'm a man, and a simple frown or glare can sometimes carry with it a threat of violence. I also wouldn't take him off quietly to have the conversation. Ideally you would do it in front of his parents, since I wouldn't want them to think that you are spiriting their boy away to punish him. You actually want them to know what happened, how you feel about it,and what you said to their son.

    If they object then that gives you the opportunity to *calmly* relate the facts of the situation and the rule of yours which you believe has been has been transgressed. Building up a history of letting them 'own' their kids transgressions sets the stage for your future actions if he does something like that again. If they never know about this incident, then any future escalation you engage in will likely seem excessive and a bolt from the blue for them.

    Regarding what you do in the future if he tests you again, I think that the only thing which you can do is go through his parents, ultimately with something similar to 'I feel that your son bullies my children and I don't think they should have to put up with that.'. As long as you have reasonably and unemotionally explained to them the rules that have been broken on previous incidents, I think most reasonable parents will find your actions acceptable.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
      so do you have any ideas about how to help my son and daughter deal with this? we've told them again and again to use force if necessary (and how to do that) but i think they know that they're outmatched and so they don't.
      This is foreign ground for me (no kids and wasn't allowed to recommend this to students obviously). My impulse for my own imaginary child would be role-playing these situations, with puppets or people or something, and giving the child the practice at yelling stop touching me or whatever message needs to be conveyed. And I might buy a punching bag for physical practice and to create a muscle memory, with the explanation that this is a last resort measure. But if someone WILL NOT STOP touching your body even though you've told them loudly and clearly to stop, Parent Panda has no problem with you hitting that person. Adults can't be everywhere and adults can't solve every problem.

      When you're young and angry and scared of a larger and more aggressive kid, often your parents' advice from calmer times flies right out of your brain. I'd hope that I could create some script the child was very familiar with both in words and actions to deal with this kind of situation. There was a particular boy who made my life a nightmare in school and to this day, I wish I had just punched him. But he was a lot bigger than me and more aggressive, and I was frightened of this over-privileged and well-muscled jackass and worried I'd get in trouble. Nice kids don't hit! But using my words certainly wasn't helping, turning the other cheek encouraged him, and the school didn't have any kind of bully policy. I should have just decked him, because I think that's the only thing he was capable of hearing.

      (Sorry, this probably wasn't helpful at all. I'm out of my territory on this.)
      JOIN THE PANDA SHOW!!! Primal With A Side Of FABULOUS and PANDALOONERY!

      Comment


      • This is a really tough situation since you are going into business with his parents and you already question some of their parenting. I don't envy your situation here at all because it means that you do need to engage. Damaging the relationship between the families will damage business. I'd try some of the ideas listed above as I think this kids may just need some simple ground rules and redirection/praise to improve. Sometimes only kids are not taught not to mess with little kids as the dynamic never presents itself or the parents are oblivious.

        Comment


        • What Panda said was how I was raised... don't ever start a fight, but you are welcome to try and finish it sort of thing.

          In the hallway at school when I was in about 5th grade a boy behind me, I believe a year older, in line at the water fountain groped my butt just as I started to lean over to get my drink. I told him very firmly NOT to touch me again. Then turned around and started to get my drink... and he just couldn't listen to a girl I suppose. He groped again. I came around with a fist and sent his glasses most of the way down the hall, and his nose was well busted and bleeding.

          I got suspended. Because "no matter what we just can't hit people", even though I had explained that he was touching me inappropriately.
          I did NOT get in trouble at home for this action, and just had a few days off school to ride horses and such.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
            Firstly, I would take this opportunity to praise my eldest repeatedly for doing the right thing, emphasising that 'big people look after little people', and that I was proud of him, and that this was responsible adult behaviour.
            check. kid #1 knows where he stands on this one. we were very careful when #2 came around to set clear expectations for the behavior of older siblings. of course he gets angry and they have their little disputes but i'm very proud of his leadership and patience.

            Secondly, in the conversation with the offending child, I would emphasise the same rule, that 'big people look after little people', and that I was disappointed in him and that he wasn't behaving like a big boy at all. I guess it's easier for me because I'm a man, and a simple frown or glare can sometimes carry with it a threat of violence.
            hmm...good point. i could talk to him about the important role of older kids around younger kids. i think he's used to getting lectures and having it go in one ear and out the other, so this might be a tricky thing to do.
            I also wouldn't take him off quietly to have the conversation. Ideally you would do it in front of his parents, since I wouldn't want them to think that you are spiriting their boy away to punish him. You actually want them to know what happened, how you feel about it,and what you said to their son.
            i did this for two reasons. first because i was very angry and i knew that the parents wouldn't mind much. and second because of the parents' reaction. i hate to say this, but if the parents know what's going on, the kid gets a spanking or punishment, is told to apologize, and then the problem's "solved." but of course it isn't, because the kid just tries to be sneakier the next time. i didn't want to make a scene and i wanted to deal with it personally. of course, this is stepping over a line, and i'm still uncomfortable with that fact. but his father saw me while it happened, and i talked to his father later about what happened, and what i did and said. after the fact, his father was okay with it and said that he saw something was going on and decided not to step in. i wasn't trying to be sneaky so much as deal with it myself and in a way that the kid would have no distractions. but when i pulled him aside, it was very public and i could tell all the other kids were looking at him.

            Regarding what you do in the future if he tests you again, I think that the only thing which you can do is go through his parents, ultimately with something similar to 'I feel that your son bullies my children and I don't think they should have to put up with that.'. As long as you have reasonably and unemotionally explained to them the rules that have been broken on previous incidents, I think most reasonable parents will find your actions acceptable.
            hmm...this is tricky. this has been going on for years and i have tried various ways of dealing with it. sometimes we simply avoided social engagements with them, sometimes i told my kids to deal with it (because sometimes they do start complaining about every minor infraction), sometimes i've stuck up for my kids, of course we've tried directly talking to the parents...we've tried a variety of things. at times i've wondered if it was just a (long) phase, but it's becoming clear that it's not. My husband is coming home soon (from living in a different state), and he has intended to take a more prominent role in this whole equation, which i think could ultimately be more effective than anything i could do. maybe we need to put a date on it; if this behavior does not end or improve significantly by (the end of the summer?) we will need to have a (very awkward) conversation with his parents and him about the situation. if it was a straight talk about bullying, i just don't see that as going over very well. and simply saying "don't do it" won't work because i don't think he knows what he *should* do. which leads me back to the book idea, because he does like to read. if there was a way to talk to his parents and recommend a book, i would definitely take this route. but i really don't think they are into reading parenting books, and i think trying to talk about it at all is like walking in a minefield.
            my primal journal:
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
              hmm...this is tricky. this has been going on for years and i have tried various ways of dealing with it. sometimes we simply avoided social engagements with them, sometimes i told my kids to deal with it (because sometimes they do start complaining about every minor infraction), sometimes i've stuck up for my kids, of course we've tried directly talking to the parents...we've tried a variety of things. at times i've wondered if it was just a (long) phase, but it's becoming clear that it's not. My husband is coming home soon (from living in a different state), and he has intended to take a more prominent role in this whole equation, which i think could ultimately be more effective than anything i could do. maybe we need to put a date on it; if this behavior does not end or improve significantly by (the end of the summer?) we will need to have a (very awkward) conversation with his parents and him about the situation. if it was a straight talk about bullying, i just don't see that as going over very well. and simply saying "don't do it" won't work because i don't think he knows what he *should* do. which leads me back to the book idea, because he does like to read. if there was a way to talk to his parents and recommend a book, i would definitely take this route. but i really don't think they are into reading parenting books, and i think trying to talk about it at all is like walking in a minefield.
              Well, if it's been going on for years than I think the only things you can really do is equip and empower your kids to respond to him, or don't hang out with them. So the only really positive things you can do is prep your kids.

              It's a very tricky line. Kids do stupid and thoughtless things when they are hanging out with others, and mine are no exception. I think that ultimately it comes down to redemption. If you think that yoru kids can cope,or the boy can grow out of it, or you still have some traction with him in terms of bahaviour change, then it's probably worth explicitly demonstrating grace to your kids and persevering with the relationship.

              If he's a net negative in your family life and you don't see that changing in the foreseeable future, then it's probably best to quietly cut ties with them. I don't understand the dynamics between your family and theirs well enough to say which is the best approach.
              Last edited by magicmerl; 06-29-2012, 06:38 PM.
              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

              Griff's cholesterol primer
              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
              bloodorchid is always right

              Comment


              • Bah!! I've spent 15 minutes on this problem (erased a few times and started over), and i can't seem to find my mistake.
                DSCN0318.jpg

                (of course, by the time someone responds, i'll have found it. that's the way it always works)
                my primal journal:
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

                Comment


                • LOL...
                  I peeked earlier... then ran far far away.
                  That looks like an unhappy mess to me.
                  Makes me long for poetry reading/writing in Lit class.
                  Last edited by cori93437; 06-30-2012, 11:18 PM.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                  Comment


                  • hmm...definitely prefer this mess to poetry.
                    my primal journal:
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

                    Comment


                    • Poetry is easy once you kick rhyme scheme out the window... as all NEW/learning poets should... because otherwise they sound like they are writing for a really bad Hallmark ripoff company.

                      Now the strictly metered styles... MUCH less easy to do well.
                      And occasional cause for happy hair tearing.
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
                        hmm...definitely prefer this mess to poetry.
                        That takes me back. I used to really like Trig, although it's surprising how little use it is in everyday life....
                        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                        Griff's cholesterol primer
                        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                        bloodorchid is always right

                        Comment


                        • I can't imagine needing it much. i'm told it's foundational for understanding calc, which apparently i'll use a lot if i become an engineer.
                          my primal journal:
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

                          Comment


                          • I think that math is elegant, but i love the "fuck it" written at the bottom. That's classic.

                            For my own part, what I finally understood just last week was really how elegant this process is. I wish that our teachers had explained it as I now understand it.

                            Maybe it's obvious.

                            My friend's son (age 10) was set to the task of determining the volume of an orange. I thought this was an interesting project, but then my husband looked at me and said "that requires calculus."

                            He then set to the task of taking the boy through the steps of determining how do discover the volume -- using the basics of geometry that the kid had.

                            He then stepped him through how those basics of geometry move into trigonometry, and then how that steps gently into calculus.

                            Yes, that's when I figured out how really brilliant math is.

                            This boy got so excited about it, that he set out then to do an apple, which he determined was five cones with cut off bottoms plus one sphere, and when he could figure out the geometric properties of each, he could then take the step into trig (with DH's help) and then again into calculus.

                            his current project is a 'basket of fruit, including the basket' where he is deducting the negative space volumes from the total volumes based on an average of what the negative space looks like in between fruit in a bowl.

                            He is so far being awarded top marks, though the teacher can't figure out where he managed to step beyond the basics of geometry, because they have only started to touch on that in class. It's not because all of his calculations are correct, but because he is thinking about math in a different way.

                            And his father noted that his son has *never* been so excited about any school subject. But now that he's been introduced to what calculus can tell him, he's looking into calculating as many odd objects as he can.

                            Yes, I can imagine that an engineer definitely needs to know it.

                            And, it sparked my interest. I liked math as a kid because of the logical progression of a given problem, but only focused on memorizing the basic formulas and how to apply the relevant factors into the problem -- you know, in order to pass exams. I never really grasped the practicality of it beyond basic maths to manage one's books, for example.

                            Now, I see something organic and holistic. And I love it.

                            So I'm re-teaching myself from geometry upwards, because everyone needs a hobby. LOL

                            Btw, did you figure it?

                            Comment


                            • pretty cool story. i like showing my son how some of his math work feeds into what i'm doing. of course it's becoming more and more difficult, but at least i can offer a little perspective.

                              no, unfortunately i did not figure it out.
                              my primal journal:
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                                My friend's son (age 10) was set to the task of determining the volume of an orange. I thought this was an interesting project, but then my husband looked at me and said "that requires calculus."

                                He then set to the task of taking the boy through the steps of determining how do discover the volume -- using the basics of geometry that the kid had.

                                He then stepped him through how those basics of geometry move into trigonometry, and then how that steps gently into calculus.
                                I would have put the orange into a measuring jug and measured how much water was displaced....

                                Want to post what the original problem was? From what I recall most of trig was knowing several formulas and knowing how to rearrange equations.

                                And really, whats a forum buddy for if not to help one solve trigonometry problems?
                                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                                Griff's cholesterol primer
                                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                                bloodorchid is always right

                                Comment

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