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Saoirse's Primal Journal

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  • I am jealous of you all. We had a snow warning this morning and the hills were all iced up until the sun came up.

    Both littles came a crawled into bed with me at about 4am, since i am the resident heat source. It's cute and all, but disrupts the rest a little.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    • are you in the southern hemisphere?
      my primal journal:
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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      • question for you guys.

        I encountered a situation yesterday at a kids' birthday party that i'm not sure how to handle if i encounter it again. It was a water party: kids' swimming pool, hoses, slip and slide, etc. One child was sort of using it to be aggressive towards other children: pouring water on them when they didn't expect or want it, spraying them beyond the point of fun (from their POV), etc. We've known this kid for years, so not really a new dynamic at all. At one point in the party, my older son brought my baby (2 year old, nonverbal) to me with a story about how this 9 year old was looking for someone to "get" with water, and seeing no one else around, came very close to dumping a bucket of water on my baby. My son said that he came around the corner just in time to see this, smacked the bucket away, scolded the kid, and brought my baby to me. I know, it's easy for parents to believe certain things about other kids, but knowing this kid's behavior towards others I believe every word of it. I wasn't sure how to deal with the idea that this 9 year old is now considering my baby as a potential kid to pick on (he picks on every other kid including my 8 and 5 year olds, not a new dynamic, never really known how to deal with it).

        The way I dealt with it was, later in the party when he wasn't suspecting it, i walked up behind him, grabbed him by the back of the neck and led him to a secluded area of the yard. I know how his parents discipline him, and that they would be okay with this (or at least only mildly irritated about it). Most kids, I would talk to the kid and explain how that's not acceptable, and assume that they'd absorb the information. Honestly, most kids are so completely ingrained in the belief that babies are a special class of people that they'd never dream of doing anything like that.

        Anyway, so I led him away from the party, looked him straight in the eye, and put on my "I'm so pissed right now, i can only talk in this quiet, strained way" voice. In extremely few words, I basically said:

        "this is my baby. "
        awkward pause as i stared him down.
        "i heard that you were going to dump water on his head"
        more awkward pause.
        "you do not TOUCH my baby."
        stare.
        "are we clear?"
        he nodded.
        more awkward pause.
        "GO play."

        later, while sitting casually with the rest of the adults, i casually asked him if he knew what a swirly was. he didn't. so I told him what it was, then i looked him up and down and said:
        "hmm...i don't know if you know this about me, but i can pick up all three of my kids at once."
        "really, all at once?"
        "yeah. so i think i could pick you up."
        he laughed nervously and ran off to play.

        Soo...anyway. the point of my story is this: i know this kid likes to test boundaries. If he tests this boundary again, and I come up with nothing, that opens the floodgates for him to use my toddler as a potential bullying victim because he knows i'm full of shit. While staying within the boundaries of the law and human decency, what should i do *if* he tests me here again? Talking to his parents won't do any good; they'll just spank him and tell him to apologize, and then he does it again. Meanwhile, simply not being around him isn't practical because of how often we see his family.
        Last edited by Saoirse; 06-29-2012, 07:48 AM.
        my primal journal:
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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        • Life lesson 1, kid- do NOT mess with Mama Bear! I'm afraid I don't have any sage advice, but I like how you handled it so far
          http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

          Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

          And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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          • Tell your 8 yo the next time the kid bullies him or his siblings, tell him to please stop, I'd say 2 times, being very nice about it. Third time he hits the kid on the nose and keep hitting him until someone stops him.

            But I'm a bit weird about such things.
            If I just said LOL, I lied. Do or do not. There is no try.

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            • it's certainly less than i felt like doing. I wish it was socially acceptable for me to have a wrestling match with him, that sort of language seems to be the only one he understands. I don't generally hit children, but that's really what i wanted to do. maybe i'm overreacting?
              my primal journal:
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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              • Originally posted by justyouraveragecavemen View Post
                Tell your 8 yo the next time the kid bullies him or his siblings, tell him to please stop, I'd say 2 times, being very nice about it. Third time he hits the kid on the nose and keep hitting him until someone stops him.

                But I'm a bit weird about such things.
                i've told him, and he won't. to be fair, this 9 year old, H, is built like a 13 year old. my kid is no match for him. another(slightly larger) 8 year old, D, takes tae kwan do, and has been doing quite well at it. H pushed D over the edge to the point that D punched him in the throat. D is usually a peaceful, rational kid. anyway, that made H pause for a few minutes, but not for long. While i've stated it again and again to my 8 year old that he needs to physically stand up for himself, i'm not sure that the escalation of violence is the answer here. Maybe it would be if we could afford tae kwan do lessons.
                my primal journal:
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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                • I thought you handled the situation well. I'm afraid I don't have any good ideas for you, I have yet to see any bullying solutions that really work.

                  When my son was in 2nd grade we had a bully situation at the small private Waldorf school he attended and it was never resolved. The kid that was bullying my son was very sneaky, I caught him doing it to other kids and told him to knock it off. The school was very annoying about it, they acted all empathetic when we told them but did nothing about it. The kid and his parents were very popular and the teacher really liked the kid. We decided to leave the school for a variety of reasons but the bullying and how they handled it was certainly a factor. Years later I heard he was asked to leave the school due to his behavior.

                  In our situation it didn't look like anything we did would change the kid's behavior. My husband tried talking to the Dad and the Dad refused to believe his kid was capable of doing such a thing. We tried talking to the school, that accomplished nothing, except that my son learned that the adults at the school were not there for him. In my son's case fighting back was not an option, the bully was much stronger (he also took martial arts) and my son at the time was very ill, he'd just been diagnosed with Cystic Fibrosis. It still makes me mad to think about it.

                  For what it's worth, I do think it helps that you let the kid know that you are on to him.
                  Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                  • I'm thinking of a combination of basic training methods and how Mom dealt with us. If you see him fairly regularly, maybe you see him often enough to be able to dangle a carrot for him AND threaten a stick?

                    Mom was really cool most of the time, but when we pissed her off, it could be scary- and I suspect part of that was because it wasn't a normal thing for her. I have no idea how he views you, but if you are cool/fun/interesting when he's being nice, and you do your crazy-eyed Mama Bear thing when he doesn't, the reinforcement comes from both sides. I'm thinking of that rather than being just scary- since it's easier to ignore things that DON'T change than things that do.

                    From a training standpoint, it encourages him to want to display the requested behavior, but it also sets very firm boundaries that that behavior is not acceptable at all.

                    I don't have kids and tend to avoid them- but it's a thought for thinking on.
                    http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                    Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                    And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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                    • I have sympathy for you, but absolutely no background to pull from to help you. Mom's solution was to ignore it and make us deal with it on our own, including protecting the younglings. Dad was always at work, cooking, or asleep. I have no spawn yet. I'd recommend none of those. Drssg seems to have the right idea, but I think I may not know the right position to take here even if it hopped up and cockslapped me in the face.
                      Here's hoping you find a solution.
                      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, steak in one hand, chocolate in the other, yelling "Holy F***, What a Ride!"
                      My Latest Journal

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                      • Urban forager- he's very sneaky. his little sis is too, but she's not quite big enough to bully (she's usually the victim). so then every time he's caught there's this sneaky/lying dynamic, and then punishment. sometimes the parents just blow it off like my kids shouldn't whine about being physically intimidated for disagreeing.

                        drssgchic- that's a good point. over the years, i've thought about how i could change the dynamic. i have to say, after our little "talk" he was very nice to my baby. At one point i even caught him splaying a sweet little game where he would slide a water balloon down to my babe gently, and then my babe would slide it back to him (on the slip n slide). I was intentional about casually remarking how nicely he was treating my baby. it won't last, he'll be back at it for long. Maybe part of the solution is being very intentional about building a good relationship with him, and i think my husband will need to play a bigger role in this. I've tried in the past, and at times it felt awkward. i don't know how to explain it, maybe i was reading into things.

                        naiad- lol @ cockslapped. thanks for the sentiment.
                        my primal journal:
                        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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                        • I know for the animals that I've met- if they have rules- or better yet, jobs- they feel more secure and are therefore better behaved. I hear this also applies to children.

                          Hey- speaking of jobs- would you trust the kid enough to "assign" him as your baby's protector at gatherings? Job description including both protecting the baby from others AND setting a good example (ie, behaving himself, you know, for the kid) It sounds like he has potential since he was taking the time to play a baby-safe game- he just hasn't had much encouragement.
                          http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                          Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                          And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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                          • Originally posted by drssgchic View Post
                            I know for the animals that I've met- if they have rules- or better yet, jobs- they feel more secure and are therefore better behaved. I hear this also applies to children.

                            Hey- speaking of jobs- would you trust the kid enough to "assign" him as your baby's protector at gatherings? Job description including both protecting the baby from others AND setting a good example (ie, behaving himself, you know, for the kid) It sounds like he has potential since he was taking the time to play a baby-safe game- he just hasn't had much encouragement.
                            I've seen this one work with a BIG kid... one who was not so much outright bullying as not understanding his size in relation to the size of other kids and being too rough.
                            It sort of comes down to helping the 'bully' change his own role and how he sees himself by giving him and 'important' lifeguard type job.
                            You don't tell him that it's HIS behavior that is the problem, you just point out what a huge size difference there is among some of the older and younger kids in general, literally point it out... a baby next to a jumping 5 year old is a great example. You point out that he is biggest of them all... kind of special... and that it would be really helpful if he watched out for the little kids in case the bigger ones got too rough with their play... and give rough play examples. Makes him into "Captain Good-guy" all of a sudden instead of always needing to go "Hey, Don't do that!"
                            All that internalized self control mumbo jumbo.

                            Oh... and of course it doesn't always work... depends on the kid and how far down the whole he/she is.

                            And...
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                            • It sounds like the lifeguard role in your situation could actually work. I would still keep a good eye on him. The bully we were dealing with was a master at manipulating adults into thinking he was innocent. He would often get other kids do stuff for him. We had a neighbor girl who also did that. My friend was her teacher and was wise her tricks; the teacher would often catch other girls doing her dirty work.
                              Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                              • Yeah, what Cori said.

                                Dang it Cori- I didn't before but I will now!
                                http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                                Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                                And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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