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Interested in Keto running

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  • Interested in Keto running

    I am interested to learn more about running longer distances while VLC and using fat as fuel. Anyone have a guide they can suggest? Or any experience to share?

  • #2
    The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by S Phinney and J Volek.

    I think Peter Attia does low carb running as well - eatingacademy.com

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    • #3
      I've got a copy of Ketogenic diets and physical performance by Stephen D Phinney as a PDF if you want it. Good stuff.

      Abstract

      Impaired physical performance is a common but not obligate result of a low carbohydrate diet.
      Lessons from traditional Inuit culture indicate that time for adaptation, optimized sodium and
      potassium nutriture, and constraint of protein to 15–25 % of daily energy expenditure allow
      unimpaired endurance performance despite nutritional ketosis.
      Last edited by chronyx; 05-15-2013, 11:23 AM. Reason: Edit: I think my Stephen D Phinney might be the same as upupandaway's S Phinney.

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      • #4
        I've got a copy of Ketogenic diets and physical performance by Stephen D Phinney as a PDF if you want it. Good stuff.

        Yes, would love a PDF copy... is email best way to send? PM me, if you have a chance. Thanks so much, really interesting stuff!

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        • #5
          Hi Firefinder, I am a low carb runner and I can recommend it. It's really tough to begin with as your body is not used to utilising fats for respiration. The first time I did a low carb run I bonked at about 6 miles (after a month of VLC eating)and had to walk. The next run I could maintain a slow and hard jog at 6 miles but hills were out of the question. now, nearly a year on I am running over 20 miles with no carbs.
          Mitochondria in the muscles can use fats but there are a few extra biochemical steps to release the energy. Once your mitochondria have built up in number and efficiency you are good to go but this adaptive process takes a while and you have to suffer the indignity of watching lesser athletes fly past you in the early stages of adaptation. Medium chain triglycerides are a great way to get your mitochondria onto the "diesel" and there are plenty in coconut milk. You can also buy them in a pure form but I'm not convinced of the need.
          Saying all that I am aiming to be metabolically flexible enough to burn whatever fuel is available to me so that I can eventually run the same on whatever fuel source is available to my body at the time.
          Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
          www.primaljoy.co.uk

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          • #6
            Will coconut oil help start the adaptation while going VLC? I am helping a friend / Iron Man Competitor who has a race at the end of this month. After that he & I are converting him to the primal WOE as he is unhappy with performance level and recovery times at 47 years old

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            • #7
              If that PDF is available I would like a copy as well

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              • #8
                Coconut oil is great for "persuading" your mitochondria to metabolise fats. A good "bonk run" helps the process too. Basically deplete your glycogen completely and then go for a nice, slow jog. Drink plenty of fluids and restock on salt. If your sweat is salty as Popeye's jockstrap you're doing it right
                Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
                www.primaljoy.co.uk

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                • #9
                  Sounds like our plan of roughly 3 weeks of VLC / and coconut oils with the 1st being rest only 2 nd being 50 % of max training building up to a

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                  • #10
                    Bonk by the end of week 3 should get him on the fat burning train

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                    • #11
                      All aboard! For most it's probably best to train low carb and then carb up before the race. There are also some benefits to running with carbs as part of training I believe. I tried a carb run recently and noticed that my muscles couldn't deal with lactic acid build up on the hill sections....it's all very much about listening to your body and self-experimentation for me; I wouldn't want to recommend any rigid programme for any particular athlete as we all respond differently. That said training low carb takes some time and you do have to go through some pain at the start.
                      Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
                      www.primaljoy.co.uk

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                      • #12
                        Thanks for your thoughts
                        You suffered from lactic acid from the carbs or from not having enough

                        Sent from my EVO using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MaceyUK View Post
                          All aboard! For most it's probably best to train low carb and then carb up before the race. There are also some benefits to running with carbs as part of training I believe. I tried a carb run recently and noticed that my muscles couldn't deal with lactic acid build up on the hill sections....it's all very much about listening to your body and self-experimentation for me; I wouldn't want to recommend any rigid programme for any particular athlete as we all respond differently. That said training low carb takes some time and you do have to go through some pain at the start.

                          Hi MaceyUK ,
                          I have switchet to low carb on the first of may, so far everything is fine. Just my running is still not up to what it used to be. How long did it take you to run well on Keto?
                          I am consuming about 20 net carbs a day. Is this too few carbs to train properly? I have a hilly half marathon in July and a Marathon later in the year. Right now after today's long run with a few hills thrown in I am doubting that I am doing the right thing here. My legs were heavy on the uphills. My heartrate seems to have gone up constantly. Is this normal and will it even out and improve?

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                          • #14
                            My running isn't as fast as it could be either...that's just the trade off I'm afraid. Carbs are like petrol and fats are akin to diesel really. It is possible to go a half marathon carb free but I struggle with anything faster than 8 min miles and with hills. What it does do though is give you the confidence to run fast with some carbs on board knowing that you can keep going when they run out. As far as shedding body fat is concerned it is amazing. I used to do lots of miles and couldn't get rid of my abdominal fat...now I have to force myself to eat extra to keep weight on.
                            I suggest you keep going but every 3rd week carb up on sweet potatoes or white rice and do some faster work, that way you get the benefits of training your metabolic pathways for both fuels and can have the confidence to do what you feel like doing without being a slave to gels etc. Our bodies respond in different ways but it's very educational to self experiment. Make sure that you are properly hydrated on low carb and take extra salt and potassium as you will need it. Bouillon is good and salty. Heartrate is hopefully your system trying to deliver more fats to the mitochondria in your muscles but could be due to pumping sludge if you are dehydrated.
                            And Ray...your muscles get used to dealing with lactic acid but no carbs means no lactic acid so they lose the ability. I did some interval training this week (400m repeats)with some glycogen on board to kickstart the system again.
                            Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
                            www.primaljoy.co.uk

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                            • #15
                              Thanks again Macey and that's what I was thinking less carbs,/ less lactic acid.
                              Will coconut oil give you an energy boost during your distance events? I was curious because of it being a MCFA and is converted easily into Ketones. I use it in the morning as a kick start and as a mid meal snacks and I do notice that even on 18 hr IF I have plenty of energy to do manual labor.

                              Sent from my EVO using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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