Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best martial art?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Back to the topic, what do you think are the best styles for real life?
    In real life you will sooner or later deal with certain hysterical woman that fights like cats using their long nails trying to mess up your face! So, a good martial art that can immobilize and pacify a very upset woman with long nails without hurting her, may be very useful, so go for judo, JJ, or BJJ...
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
      In real life you will sooner or later deal with certain hysterical woman that fights like cats using their long nails trying to mess up your face! So, a good martial art that can immobilize and pacify a very upset woman with long nails without hurting her, may be very useful, so go for judo, JJ, or BJJ...
      Or be nicer to your women and still pick Jiu Jitsu (Gracie-/Brazilian-) or Judo.
      The Champagne of Beards

      Comment


      • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
        I'm going to step back from my comments on Shou Shu. I had an in-built faith with my uncle being a black belt, and I haven't done much training with it yet. I'm going to do some research.

        Edit: And for the record, my change of heart was after watching the demos you posted. I simply hadn't done my homework yet.
        Well done. Many would've just carried on arguing their point or just quietly walked away.

        To be fair though, most "demos" at a public events look fake, as that's exactly what they are. They are usually choreographed adverts to demonstrate the most fanciful and exciting aspects to attract new students.
        If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

        Originally posted by tfarny
        If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Misabi View Post
          Well done. Many would've just carried on arguing their point or just quietly walked away.

          To be fair though, most "demos" at a public events look fake, as that's exactly what they are. They are usually choreographed adverts to demonstrate the most fanciful and exciting aspects to attract new students.
          Alright, so as I said, I am questioning my sources right now. I think my logic had been sound. It's just a few, assumed truths I'm relying on from other people that could be throwing my conclusions out of wack. That's the only way it can be for me when I have not spent extensive time in a wide variety of martial arts or in street fighting to confirm or deny these facts. So some situational facts that I state are open to debate.

          There is one key point I'd like to make about sparring.

          It's late, and I just forgot the specifics of the discussion I had over this earlier.... Well, stay tuned.
          Last edited by wiltondeportes; 05-31-2013, 04:54 AM.

          Comment


          • The "best" martial art has to be one that makes use of a weapon. As a general rule, weapon beats no weapon. If you find yourself legitimately fighting for your life, grab a pool cue, rock, keys, whatever is handy, before your opponent does. This has 4 effects: threatens your opponent so he might back down, gives you greater reach, protects your own hand since the object will be doing the hitting, and hurts more.

            Most effective martial art? Probably point shooting.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by prufock View Post
              The "best" martial art has to be one that makes use of a weapon. As a general rule, weapon beats no weapon. If you find yourself legitimately fighting for your life, grab a pool cue, rock, keys, whatever is handy, before your opponent does. This has 4 effects: threatens your opponent so he might back down, gives you greater reach, protects your own hand since the object will be doing the hitting, and hurts more.

              Most effective martial art? Probably point shooting.
              It also escalates the fight in the eyes of your attacker and the law.

              Not saying it's necessarily a good idea when it's possible, but you're imagining a telegraphed pre-attack sequence that I think is rare in real life attacks.

              The best martial art is one that prepares you to deal with a situation that doesn't go as planned. Teaches you how to get out of a bad situation/position, rather than assuming you can prevent them in every instance.
              The Champagne of Beards

              Comment


              • Originally posted by prufock View Post
                The "best" martial art has to be one that makes use of a weapon. As a general rule, weapon beats no weapon. If you find yourself legitimately fighting for your life, grab a pool cue, rock, keys, whatever is handy, before your opponent does. This has 4 effects: threatens your opponent so he might back down, gives you greater reach, protects your own hand since the object will be doing the hitting, and hurts more.

                Most effective martial art? Probably point shooting.
                This is the problem I have with most modern "martial arts", they are anything but martial. They are either watered down to be socially acceptable, sportified, or just cover a single aspect (I.e. unarmed combat, or worse only one aspect if that like standup or ground game only).

                Then you have a major difference between "martial arts" and self defence. Knowing how to fight under controlled conditions is one thing, getting jumped in a car park late at night is completely different.
                Last edited by Misabi; 05-31-2013, 06:20 PM.
                If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                Originally posted by tfarny
                If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Misabi View Post
                  This is the problem I have with most modern "martial arts", they are anything but martial. They are either watered down to be socially acceptable, sportified, or just cover a single aspect (I.e. unarmed combat, or worse only one aspect if that like standup or ground game only).
                  I totally agree with you on this.

                  Originally posted by Misabi View Post
                  Then you have a major difference between "martial arts" and self defence. Knowing how to fight under controlled conditions is one thing, getting jumped in a car park late at night is completely different.
                  A true "martial art" is self defense. The word martial means "suited for war". Controlled conditions would go back to your last paragraph about martial arts being sportified (nice word by the way).

                  Let me elaborate on the sport vs *martial* art difference. Everyone talks about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being so great. In a real life fight to save your life, wouldn't you just fish hook, eye gouge, testicle crush, and hair-pull the crap out of someone who tried to submit you with a BJJ move? Or if you had a weapon or even just a useful object nearby: stab them, crush them with a rock, hit them with a bat or heavy stick? Furthermore, if you had more than person on your side, they could easily beat the crap out of the guy on the ground performing his BJJ moves.

                  At least if he was on his feet and keeping his distance, his body is not immediately vulnerable to neither devastating moves that I already mentioned nor a 2nd person messing him up with superior position (2nd person standing and stomping, kicking, punching him who is on the ground).

                  It's clear to me that the ground is the last place you want to be in real life. It only works in cages where they outlaw the most brutal shots. I will accept that many fights DO end up on the ground, but I believe your goal should be to stand back up instead of fight it out down there.

                  Comment


                  • Back to Shou Shu...

                    First of all, Shou Shu was originally in total control of the originator, Al Moore Sr. He was the only person who tested people for belts. He kept a strict quality standard. He died in the early 2000's as an elderly man.

                    Way before that, maybe in the 80s or early 90s, Al Moore Jr was creating a different brand of Shou Shu in Southern California. It was very McDojo with price gouging and overall weaker teaching. They watered down the art; Shou Shu was being taught simply as Kenpo Karate with ommittance of the fighting theory that makes the whole thing Shou Shu.

                    Aside: True Shou Shu is taught with Kenpo techniques and glimpses of fighting theory (of the 7 different styles that the art combines; these 7 styles are called animals but they could just be numbered 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 for all it matters) until you reach black belt level. At this stage, you begin to learn the full depth of each of the individual styles within Shou Shu, one by one.

                    The Southern and Northern had a fierce rivalry. Al Moore Jr and his disciples in the south wanted more money. Moore Jr tried many times to take control of schools in the north. I don't know all the specifics, but it was very ugly. Al Moore Sr and his disciples in the north wanted to stay true to the art, and they of course wanted the control over their own schools.

                    By the time Al Moore Sr died, Al Moore Jr had control of maybe half of the Shou Shu schools in California. Today, all but a couple of the Shou Shu schools are based upon the Southern school of thought. I go to one of maybe a couple that have stayed true to Al Moore Sr. If you encounter a person on the internet reciting their experience, keep this story in mind. They could have encountered all the "McDojo" B.S. that Shou Shu is apparently known for on the internet from a school under Al Moore Jr's tutelage.
                    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-01-2013, 12:18 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                      I totally agree with you on this.


                      A true "martial art" is self defense. The word martial means "suited for war". Controlled conditions would go back to your last paragraph about martial arts being sportified (nice word by the way).

                      Let me elaborate on the sport vs *martial* art difference. Everyone talks about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being so great. In a real life fight to save your life, wouldn't you just fish hook, eye gouge, testicle crush, and hair-pull the crap out of someone who tried to submit you with a BJJ move? Or if you had a weapon or even just a useful object nearby: stab them, crush them with a rock, hit them with a bat or heavy stick? Furthermore, if you had more than person on your side, they could easily beat the crap out of the guy on the ground performing his BJJ moves.
                      Wait, are we talking in a scenario in which the Jiu Jitsu fighter is the attacker or the attacked? It's very easy to imagine you could do all that hair pulling/rock crushing/and eye gouging if you've never grappled, but in reality, you probably wouldn't have that much freedom to move your arms and legs in the ways your imagining. Go down to your local Gracie Jiu Jitsu academy and give it a shot some time. Ask about how to handle whatever eye gouging scenarios you can think up.

                      Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                      At least if he was on his feet and keeping his distance, his body is not immediately vulnerable to neither devastating moves that I already mentioned nor a 2nd person messing him up with superior position (2nd person standing and stomping, kicking, punching him who is on the ground).
                      If you think any martial art you learn is going to give you an awesome chance to win a fight against multiple attackers, you're still confusing an actual situation with a Bruce Lee movie.

                      In Jiu Jitsu, we place the emphasis on what happens once a fight goes to the ground because the majority of real fights take place there. Your repeated mis-statement that the self-defense curriculum of Jiu Jitsu has to do with pulling guard and attempting armbars is still a straw man.

                      Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                      It's clear to me that the ground is the last place you want to be in real life. It only works in cages where they outlaw the most brutal shots. I will accept that many fights DO end up on the ground, but I believe your goal should be to stand back up instead of fight it out down there.
                      And one of the things we drill every single day I step on the mats is how to get up from the ground when an opponent/attacker is trying not to let you. Again, your objections are based on a set of incorrect assumptions about Gracie Jiu Jitsu, not the actual curriculum. In fact, I'd make the argument that this is where Jiu Jitsu > Judo as self defense, because we don't turn our backs and wait for the referee to re-start us when we're in a ground position for a short period of time.

                      The sport aspect of Jiu Jitsu is not a perfect analog to a real fight, but it's the best anyone has come up with. The points system is based on the hierarchy of positions in a real fight where someone wants to cockpunch/eye gouge/otherwise be really unfriendly to you. It's hard to punch a guy in the dick when he's on your back or mounted or holding you in side control. It's possible to defend yourself from these if you have developed any guard game whatsoever, but it's less advantageous, so you receive no points (you DO get points for sweeps. Getting OFF the bottom and TO the top.)

                      Really, your'e a smart enough guy to do a little research before you go spouting off these conclusions based on incorrect assumptions. This is tired though. It has been elucidated all over the interwebz. I'm done spoon-feeding it to you.
                      The Champagne of Beards

                      Comment


                      • On what Shou Shu does for sparring....

                        -Reactionary fighting: like sparring but a little different. You face defenders who come at you irregularly, and you could do this against many defenders or just one. The point is to eliminate the mental freezes you would have in a real fight if it doesn't go as planned. Defender. Sparring loses the depth in your strikes and you become sloppy.
                        -Recoiling weapons: teaches you to continuously move your centerline (our vocabulary for center of your body, you spine) and throw strike after strike.
                        -Full sparring: generally once a week, schools have traditionally put on groin and head protection and allowed full sparring. This is for the more advanced students. You have to build up to sparring so that your sparring isn't slop. This slop is what the poster earlier was referring to when he said that in his real life situation, his technique fell apart. If you spar with sloppy technique (even if you practice proper form in isolated exercises, your real life reactions will be sloppy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          Wait, are we talking in a scenario in which the Jiu Jitsu fighter is the attacker or the attacked? It's very easy to imagine you could do all that hair pulling/rock crushing/and eye gouging if you've never grappled, but in reality, you probably wouldn't have that much freedom to move your arms and legs in the ways your imagining. Go down to your local Gracie Jiu Jitsu academy and give it a shot some time. Ask about how to handle whatever eye gouging scenarios you can think up.



                          If you think any martial art you learn is going to give you an awesome chance to win a fight against multiple attackers, you're still confusing an actual situation with a Bruce Lee movie.

                          In Jiu Jitsu, we place the emphasis on what happens once a fight goes to the ground because the majority of real fights take place there. Your repeated mis-statement that the self-defense curriculum of Jiu Jitsu has to do with pulling guard and attempting armbars is still a straw man.



                          And one of the things we drill every single day I step on the mats is how to get up from the ground when an opponent/attacker is trying not to let you. Again, your objections are based on a set of incorrect assumptions about Gracie Jiu Jitsu, not the actual curriculum. In fact, I'd make the argument that this is where Jiu Jitsu > Judo as self defense, because we don't turn our backs and wait for the referee to re-start us when we're in a ground position for a short period of time.

                          The sport aspect of Jiu Jitsu is not a perfect analog to a real fight, but it's the best anyone has come up with. The points system is based on the hierarchy of positions in a real fight where someone wants to cockpunch/eye gouge/otherwise be really unfriendly to you. It's hard to punch a guy in the dick when he's on your back or mounted or holding you in side control. It's possible to defend yourself from these if you have developed any guard game whatsoever, but it's less advantageous, so you receive no points (you DO get points for sweeps. Getting OFF the bottom and TO the top.)

                          Really, your'e a smart enough guy to do a little research before you go spouting off these conclusions based on incorrect assumptions. This is tired though. It has been elucidated all over the interwebz. I'm done spoon-feeding it to you.
                          This is a discussion, not a dissertation on 30 years of martial arts study. You're confusing hypotheses and conclusions.

                          As for Shou Shu and ground techniques, Shou Shu does teach some ground. Is it as advanced as BJJ? No, I believe BJJ is the best grappling art out there. I'm familiar with only a few that can compete with BJJ. Sambo and Judo are good too.

                          Let's put off the argument of striking vs grappling for a second. Comparing Shou Shu and BJJ is going to be apples and oranges until we decide that. I will concede BJJ is the superior ground game if you will concede Shou Shu is the superior standing game.
                          Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-01-2013, 04:20 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post

                            Let's put off the argument of striking vs grappling for a second. Comparing Shou Shu and BJJ is going to be apples and oranges until we decide that. I will concede BJJ is the superior ground game if you will concede Shou Shu is the superior standing game.
                            You have no idea what you're talking about. BJJ is the superior ground game, and the superior not-getting-put-on-the-ground game. Shou shu is LARP.
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              You have no idea what you're talking about. BJJ is the superior ground game, and the superior not-getting-put-on-the-ground game. Shou shu is LARP.
                              Can your BJJ match his tiger style?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                                Meaning if you're attacked by someone so much bigger and stronger and more talented than you to the point that Jiu Jitsu doesn't save you, please explain what can.
                                Sprinting

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X