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Best martial art?

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  • #16
    haha an exception would be Mexicans. I would do anything that I could to avoid fighting even one mexican
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
      haha an exception would be Mexicans. I would do anything that I could to avoid fighting even one mexican
      Then stay out I Mexico I guess.
      The above should be viewed as complete and utter nonsense.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
        BJJ is great to know, but severely lacking if that's all you know. ESPECIALLY against multiple attackers, and especially if they're armed with anything more than fists.
        What isn't? If not Jiu Jitsu, then what?!

        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
        Working someone into an arm bar isn't much good if his friends are stomping you at the same time.
        What is good if someone's friends are stomping you? I have to repeat the question above.

        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
        BJJ is great, but don't make it your only tool.
        If you're going to fight in contemporary MMA, some striking and some wrestling training are quite definitely in order. Otherwise, your argument is kind of like saying a Chevrolet is not a good car because it can't drive over water or fly through the air.

        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
        I prefer being very well trained with empty hands, edged weapons, and firearms.
        All those are great ideas. Just don't imagine that you're going to turn into Rambo without quitting your job and devoting all your time to training tactical stuff.

        Originally posted by quikky View Post
        How does Jiu-Jitsu handle concrete/asphalt? I'm curious about that because when you're sparring you can be aggressive with takedowns on a padded mat, but can you pull off the same thing outside on the street on asphalt, especially if the opponent is heavy?
        I thought we were talking about self-defense. If you get put on your back, regardless of the surface, don't you think it's a helpful skillset to be able to fight from there and get up from there? And to have done so thousands of times agains larger, stronger, resisting opponents?
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
          If those 5-6 guys are like, a biker gang, or a drug operation or something, then you should probably avoid them, but every physical confrontation that I have ever seen involving groups of men are really conflicts with 1 or 2 loud men in a group of spectactors who know how to display juuuuust enough aggression to say, after the fight, that they kicked someone's ass. They scatter when you identify and drop their inspirational leader type personalities.
          typically true. and trust me on this one, I've been in my fair share of fights. but i'd rather be called a pussy because I wouldn't engage a couple of losers outside of a bar, then find out the hard way when a half dozen of their buddies come bursting out the door, full of liquid courage and gang mentality

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          • #20
            Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
            this is a valid point. however, lets not forget that life isn't a movie scene. you aren't going to chuck norris your way out of a mob of people no matter what you know. rule # 1- avoid the conflict. rule # 2- avoid the damn conflict. if it seems like you are going to get stomped by a crowd, get the f outta there. don't be a tough guy. if some dude and his buddies are starting shit, and you're all by yourself, let him "win" the verbal confrontation. let him be the big man. who really cares? you could have 15 years of martial arts experience, 5-6 guys are still going to kick your ass. and if they're armed with bats, tire irons, knives, etc, then you're screwed. one of my biggest problems with teaching anyone martial arts/boxing/etc is that they are lulled in to a false sense of security with it.
            I agree--I stay the hell away from "fights" or situations that might lead to them. My days of caring what some drunk frat guy thinks about me are long behind.

            I do, however, train like hell for the off chance that someone intends to do me very real harm or death, when all the avoidance in the world would have no effect on the situation. In that case...

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            • #21
              Sure, but I am arguing that the ability to effectively switch on primal, murderous aggression is really the deciding factor. Probably a disproportionate amount of men with this tendency pursue martial arts training, so its skewed, but that is really what wins fights.

              my dad told me about a neighborhood guy that he saw get jumped and knocked to the ground, and was getting stomped. He had no formal martial arts training, but tenaciously clung to his rabid desire to harm the men around him, and just dropped all of them with a series of kicks to the knees and groin.

              Attacks create openings. If someone is attacking without a real desire to destroy you, really they are just inviting you to destroy them.
              edit (most attacks are not born of this destruction murder motivation, but are socially demanded, face-saving, frat-boy, poser tough guy showing off)
              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

              Jack london, "Before Adam"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                as opposed to what, just standing there and getting the crap kicked out of you? a few scrapes on the knees, elbows, and back would be worth it if it meant my overall health and well being was protected
                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                I thought we were talking about self-defense. If you get put on your back, regardless of the surface, don't you think it's a helpful skillset to be able to fight from there and get up from there? And to have done so thousands of times agains larger, stronger, resisting opponents?
                I am not arguing for or against Jiu-Jitsu, it's a legitimate curiosity that I have. Correct me if I am wrong, but the premise is to get your opponent on the ground. If this is a self defense situation, the ground will probably be concrete/asphalt. My concern is with throwing yourself on such a surface and hurting yourself badly.

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                • #23
                  I have practiced TKD and several styles of kung fu but am now doing Krav Maga after a brief stint of jeet kune do. Krav is the best IMO because of it's simplicity and effectiveness. I am talking purely from a self defense perspective.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by quikky View Post
                    Correct me if I am wrong, but the premise is to get your opponent on the ground.
                    Okay, now I understand the confusion. Actually, this is not actually the premise. The premise is to be able to survive and defend yourself if and when a bigger, stronger opponent manages to put you on the ground against your will.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                      I agree--I stay the hell away from "fights" or situations that might lead to them. My days of caring what some drunk frat guy thinks about me are long behind.

                      I do, however, train like hell for the off chance that someone intends to do me very real harm or death, when all the avoidance in the world would have no effect on the situation. In that case...
                      right on! and like the old saying goes, "expect the best, but prepare for the worst."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                        my dad told me about a neighborhood guy that he saw get jumped and knocked to the ground, and was getting stomped. He had no formal martial arts training, but tenaciously clung to his rabid desire to harm the men around him, and just dropped all of them with a series of kicks to the knees and groin.
                        Pretty sure your dad was just telling you about the first time he saw Roadhouse

                        Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                        Attacks create openings. If someone is attacking without a real desire to destroy you, really they are just inviting you to destroy them.
                        So aggression/killer instinct is the only thing that matters? Size, strength, and skill are all unrelated to the topic at hand?

                        And your expertise on the matter stems from a story your dad told you about a fight he saw once?
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          Okay, now I understand the confusion. Actually, this is not actually the premise. The premise is to be able to survive and defend yourself if and when a bigger, stronger opponent manages to put you on the ground against your will.
                          So what's the plan of action in Jiu-Jitsu when someone is just throwing punches at your face? Don't you end up taking the fight to the ground?

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                          • #28
                            So aggression/killer instinct is the only thing that matters? Size, strength, and skill are all unrelated to the topic at hand?
                            Pretty much- I am arguing that aggressive instinct is THE SKILL that one possesses that wins a fight. The rest of the details, in my experience, are incidental.

                            But like I said- a lot of people who have this skill PURSUE MARTIAL ARTS, so you see people with an aggressive instinct using judo or karate or boxing or MMA or whatever, but they only even developed these forms in the first place because their bodies move forward when threatened, while most people's retreat.
                            "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                            Jack london, "Before Adam"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I am trying to recall a time that I saw someone with some kind of superior technical training use some kind of superior technique against an angrier, more aggressive opponent and win, and I can't recall a single example.

                              Lots of memories of various thugs beating asses nonetheless though.
                              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                              Jack london, "Before Adam"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by quikky View Post
                                So what's the plan of action in Jiu-Jitsu when someone is just throwing punches at your face? Don't you end up taking the fight to the ground?
                                You ultimately might have to, but it's certainly not the "plan of action."

                                If I had to generalize a "plan of action," I'd say it's to keep enough distance that they can't hit you. There's a sort of half stomp/half sidekick to the thigh/knee that's very effective for this. It's one of the first several techniques in Royler and Renzo's book. Royce used it in early UFC's. Rickson used it in Pride and other Japanese fight organizations. I have used it in amateur MMA in at least 3 of my 4 fights.

                                Sometimes you're late and that's not an option. Sometimes you have to clinch. Clinching means getting so close to the person that they can't hit you. If you can get an underhook and an overhook and get to the side, you can make the guy basically carry your weight around while being unable to hit you. You can push him up against a wall or a car or a telephone pole if he's not so big and strong. And if you can't, you can put him on the ground if you have to. Not yourself.

                                There are self-defense techniques where you place a limb on the ground, but I'd say they're all for "late-sequence" events (e.g. you missed other opportunities to stay out of problem spots) and you never fall to the ground, you always place whatever body part it is down in a controlled manner.

                                You seem to have a cartoonish view of Jiu Jitsu like the strip mall dojos with the 7 foot trophies in the front window.

                                To turn the tables, what martial art/combat sport offers a better plan of action for that scenario? If not Jiu Jitsu, then what?
                                The Champagne of Beards

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