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I FINALLY had a decent half marathon running on FAT!

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  • #16
    relaygirl,

    I don't mean to sound like a moron, but I new to idea of fat adaptation. How do you know that you are now fat adapted? What feels different? Thanks for any insights you can provide.

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    • #17
      there are several posts about it-search fat adapted beast. I am n=1 so this is where I am now:

      I used to eat primal but would eat mostly protein-with good fats and some carbs. I would eat several times a day, I was still hungry. Now, I eat mostly fat-grass fed butter, mct oil, coconut oil, coconut, avocado, then protein and carbs. About 150 grams of fat a day.

      For racing I would have to carb up primally-more fruit, more starches. Now I just keep things regular-a serving of fruit a day, a couple of sweet potatoes a week. I eat a lot of veggies. But I do not eat more because I am running long. I essentially can race high even in a fasted state. cross fit too. I drink bullet proof coffee 2 x a day in the morning then start eating at 1:00. I am now doing this even on race days.

      Last month I experimented with race nutrition-but I am finding at 13+miles I do not even need anything during the race. This weekend I am going to bring a little baggie of almonds and dried unsweetened cranberries and I think I probably wont even eat it. I do need salt-so I only need salt tablets and a nuun.

      Aside from racing-before I used to have to really watch my fruit consumption-I hardly ate any. I would gain weight. Now, with emphasis on the fats, it is protein that will make me gain. I do not eat tons of fruit, but there is no real spike in my blood sugar when I eat it. My LP IR score was a 4 last month.

      I am really never hungry but I used to be hungry all the time-even with eggs and bacon for breakfast. And this is why I had to find a way to race, eat and live without cravings--just eating primally, it never cured my cravings and food addiction. Essentially doubling my fat and lowering the other values I have done this. I am sure it is a leptin issue.

      I feel like I am running on rocket fuel about 5 miles in. I can't wait to get up 20+ miles and see how it goes.

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      • #18
        Great thread and thank you for your running training updates.... keto trail running is absolutely doable. 10Ks, that's another question.

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        • #19
          @abqandrea I don't like 10K's-I am not efficient in that short of a race. I looked back at my times and I had a 42 minute 10K a few years ago. I had no idea-I had forgotten. That is a pretty okay time for an oldish woman.

          So I ran a few earlier this year just kind of sloppy-49-50 minutes (before the fat increase). When I saw that I had run one at 42 minutes I worked hard to try to run another one at that pace. I ran one just under 44 min in May and I felt like my body had been beaten and kicked. I thought-why do this to myself; this is not fun.

          That was the beginning for me to change my attitude about racing and running and being fit. I want to be able to be active for the next 50 years so I am not going to brutalize my body again. Well, kind of --that is when I added a day of cross fit and the 10 lbs.

          I had a moment and a few 3rd places finishes. It is enough. I am not even a lifelong runner-I was obese for many years and I just started running in 2009. I want to enjoy myself.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by relaygirl View Post
            there are several posts about it-search fat adapted beast. I am n=1 so this is where I am now:

            I used to eat primal but would eat mostly protein-with good fats and some carbs. I would eat several times a day, I was still hungry. Now, I eat mostly fat-grass fed butter, mct oil, coconut oil, coconut, avocado, then protein and carbs. About 150 grams of fat a day.

            For racing I would have to carb up primally-more fruit, more starches. Now I just keep things regular-a serving of fruit a day, a couple of sweet potatoes a week. I eat a lot of veggies. But I do not eat more because I am running long. I essentially can race high even in a fasted state. cross fit too. I drink bullet proof coffee 2 x a day in the morning then start eating at 1:00. I am now doing this even on race days.

            Last month I experimented with race nutrition-but I am finding at 13+miles I do not even need anything during the race. This weekend I am going to bring a little baggie of almonds and dried unsweetened cranberries and I think I probably wont even eat it. I do need salt-so I only need salt tablets and a nuun.

            Aside from racing-before I used to have to really watch my fruit consumption-I hardly ate any. I would gain weight. Now, with emphasis on the fats, it is protein that will make me gain. I do not eat tons of fruit, but there is no real spike in my blood sugar when I eat it. My LP IR score was a 4 last month.

            I am really never hungry but I used to be hungry all the time-even with eggs and bacon for breakfast. And this is why I had to find a way to race, eat and live without cravings--just eating primally, it never cured my cravings and food addiction. Essentially doubling my fat and lowering the other values I have done this. I am sure it is a leptin issue.

            I feel like I am running on rocket fuel about 5 miles in. I can't wait to get up 20+ miles and see how it goes.
            I look forward to your report. Your post sounds familiar to me. I've never raced, but I have been getting more and more hungry. I've been eating a little more fruit and it doesn't seem to be hurting me. But maybe I need to once more try the more fat thing because I'm getting really hungry the more I run. I, too, feel a surge like rocket fuel a few miles in. I figure that's when my body has finally relented to burn its own fat. Sadly, my body seems to want to hold onto all its fat no matter what I do. Even burning a little bit off doesn't seem to phase my body. It knows how to make me put it all right back on.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #21
              Hey y'all-I have been so busy I could not post--the race went great considering.

              Lots of issues leading up to it-6 y.o. with strep on Friday, I get strep on Sat-along with 12 y.o. birthday party which goes to 11:00pm the night before the race and consists of 12- 12 year olds and 200 wings and 4 hours of manhunt.

              I was exhausted and sick. I was up all night with my 6 y.o. At about 3am I just stared at the clock and was going to give in and not run. This is so not like me. I was just literally sick and tired. But then I was thinking...out loud and my husband was telling me to shut up...that my friend had run Nashville 2 weeks ago and she was hurting so bad. I could probably tough this out. I have run through worse.

              So I got up an hour later had 4 advil, got in my sparkly running skirt and pink knee highs with the hearts on them to project an image of light hearted happiness that I was not feeling and ran my ass off. I had diarrhea twice from the sickness-quite the contrast from the sweet runner girl image. The illness really was bruising my gut. I never have stopped in a race to use the portapotty-they are not pleasant on the race course. Besides that I was fine--I ran nice and steady for 5 miles, went to the portapotty and then ran fast for 4 more, went to portapotty and then rocketed to the end.

              I ran in 1:58. Pretty good for sick, tired and diarrhea. I bet I could of run 10 min faster if I was healthy.

              As far as food goes--pre race night before was...wings from the Manhunt party. I had a bulletproof coffee the morning before the race. MCT oil and advil did not help my upset stomach, I am sure. I have been running well on BP coffee though up to this point. I had nuun in my water and that was it. I had a banana after the race. Then just normal 2 paleo meals that afternoon-fruit, veggie and meat.

              I came home and slept, ate, slept.

              This weekend is my 1st relay. I have 20 miles total--but now my friend who was hurt in Nashville is still hurt and can't run her legs. Between a super woman runner in our van and my lowly self (because I am the van captain) we are going to take her legs. So I probably will end up with 28 over 4 legs. Hopefully superwoman can take 2 and me just take 1.

              I just came from the local running store and bought a whole bottle of salt caps.

              My goal for this weekend is to fuel efficiently--not to over eat. I have pigged out in past years on these things--there is so much crap in the vans. I will have fruit, fat and protein between each leg. Boiled eggs, berries-which i drizzle with CO and then freeze. We will probably stop at some Kuntry Kitchen along the way--that gives you an idea of where this race runs through--do you hear the banjos?

              Okay, so that is it.

              sbhikes-I am trying to train low--I really like your maffetone thread. This is all such trial and error.

              I cannot burn my belly off either. I was overweight for many, many years. I think this is the consequences of that. It would take plastic surgery to get it off, I think. I am so very muscular everywhere else. I am sure I have a 6 pack under there somewhere. I really don't know what else to do. I can't carb refeed-it just makes me want to keep up the carb fest for an extended amount of time.

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              • #22
                Hey y'all-not sure if anyone is tracking my fat adaptation running or not. I had my 1st relay this season last weekend and we did not come in last!!!

                It took my women's team 30 hours. I had 25 miles (with added leg for injured runner). I ran every few hours. I brought a fruit bowl, fresh ground almond butter, cut up veggies (really hard to eat in the middle of this), I had a nice lunch with boiled eggs and asparagus cooked in CO after the 1st leg. After the 2nd leg we stopped at a diner and I had a hamburger, peaches and a steamed veggie medley. I was never really hungry but ate steadily. I did drink one Propel-not the best but it was okay. And lots of coffee with cream when I could get it.

                I ran pretty well and ran 9 min miles across all legs and the last leg which was only 5 miles I ran in 38 min--better than I have run all fall and it was at the end. I was trying to go nice and easy to keep my energy up with no sleep. I was the team captain so I had no rest.

                There was a mostly mens crossfit team from florida which provided nice 20 year old eye candy for some of the race but they were so much faster than us it didn't last long enough. I crossfit a lot but I do not look like that.

                Okay, so next half is Saturday. But I am dressing up like Wonder Woman so the costume might hold back my time. But I am going to go for it an see what happens. No race food at all. I IF everyday with a bp coffee in the morning-so that is all I am going to have. I will just eat normally today and friday and see how it goes.

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                • #23
                  I'm not really a runner. Before, the only times I have run 10+ miles was for a ToughMudder and a Trail 20k- before each I carb-binged... really carb-binged.

                  Thanks for the detail in your posts... Your story inspired me and changed my approach - but have a half coming up in a few weeks and will now:
                  definitely wear a wonder woman costume.
                  try it without the carb crutch before (personally, I don't need or want anything but water during the race).

                  Thanks again!

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                  • #24
                    This is very interesting to me. In 2011, I ran 6 half marathons... each sucked (except one, where I had a 15 min PR, but bonked at mile 10). I spent all of 2012 in an injury recovery state b/c I spent all of 2011 on the injured but still running halves state. I am very VERY slowly building my base. Running about 2x per week for 15 minutes at a time right now. I needed glute strength. Finally may have my glutes "turned on" so building should be easier.

                    HOWEVER, I am not following the correct dietary plan and haven't been for about 2-3 weeks. I've noticed my ability to run with ease has dropped significantly since I've started adding the crappy carbs back in (sugar, baked goods, etc - gluten-free of course). I am getting back on track starting Sunday (birthday party on Saturday and I plan to partake in the gluten free stuff).

                    One thing I've noticed that amazes me is how great I feel the next day after running in a low carb state. My legs don't hurt! It's AMAZING how little lactic acid build up I have when I've been so used to 2nd day DOMS. I am eager to get back on track so running is fun and easy again. Next year, I plan to run some halves. I need to "redeem" myself on some courses that I should have run well on but didn't b/c of poor nutrition and stupid over-training injuries.

                    best of luck to you this weekend. PS - trails are the BEST!! I LOVE trails!
                    Primal since March 5, 2012
                    SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



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                    • #25
                      @dogfuel I am positive the wonder woman costume is key =)

                      @jenn26point2 I have only been running for 10 years but 5 years of it was fat. In 2008 I lost 65 lbs and low and behold...I was fast! I had no idea. I have run 47 half marathons in the last 3 years. Something about the distance just clicked with me. I am efficient at 13 miles. I run marathons occasionally and short races on trail especially. I also have been injured. I added in a lot of plyo and stairs on top of running and ended up with a heel stress fracture at the beginning of 2011--6 months in casts and boots. I swam during that time and lost a ton of weight-but it was my muscle weight. I was so long and lean...but not strong.

                      The crappy carbs will suck the life out of you. I deal with a food addiction. That is why I was so overweight years ago-eating in secret, like a drug to ease the pain of my life. So, not worth it. I was dealing with it better when I lost weight but I would still binge every few months and feel like sh*t. That is why at the beginning of the summer I started adding more fat-eating paleo for over a year and I was protein based, not fat based. Now, I concentrate on my fats and I don't binge--FREEDOM! The adjustment from more protein to more fat though was difficult for me and running. I am just now finding my groove. I hope I peak in January-I am doing the Miami to Key West relay and I can't wait. I want to fly on those bridges. Adding fat though and increasing crossfit I gained about 10 lbs of muscle. It is insane and slows me down right now.

                      Okay, just had dinner. I should have had a sweet potato but didn't get it in the oven in time. I had a big bowl of spaghetti squash with butter and coconut oil--I serve it with my friends farm fresh hot sausage, skinny green beans with a runny egg over the top. Damn it was good. I will eat more frozen organic cherries with coconut oil drizzled over the top later and then that is it until bp coffee in the morning pre race.

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                      • #26
                        I am excited to hear how your race went.
                        Primal since March 5, 2012
                        SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



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                        • #27
                          Hey y'all, I am indifferent about the race. I am glad I did not post right away because I was so mad. I ran 1:58 again. Which is just okay--I really wanted to inch toward where I was to prove to myself that I can run as fast and strong as I did before but eating fat. At least I looked cute. And I beat the couple team that was carrying huge cardboard cut outs of pac man and a ghost pushing a stroller--they were really fast for running with 4 foot pieces of cardboard, running as a pair and pushing strollers. Wow. There is always someone doing more than you.

                          So that said, there was improvement now that I am looking at it several days out. I ran 2 miles at 9's and then 7 miles at 8:20's. This is good. That is a long time to run that long and maintain a little speed. Then at 9 miles I just started to fade. It was just that heavy feeling. I was just jogging by the last couple of miles. At least it felt that way.

                          Thinking about that I am seeing that 9 miles is where I would have supplemented in the past for sure. Even last month I was using my homemade gel around 8 or 9 miles. Do I want to supplement now? I'm not sure.

                          I never supplement in training at all-even on 15+ miles. I just go with it. Eat before and eat after.

                          My next half as of right now is not until dec and I have a whole in dec-so I need to work this out. Not sure if I am going to run the whole.

                          So I am going to take this a week at a time--next Saturday I have a trail 10 miler. My husband won't let me line up competitively for these anymore because of dislocating my elbow 3 times this summer falling on trail runs. Go figure. But I will go into the race with no up loading the 2 days before-normal fat and food intake. I will eat a sweet potato the day before for sure-who knows, even if it is just mental it could help. I think I might have an egg, bacon, sp hash that morning too-instead of just the bp coffee.

                          Okay, now one more thing: recovery...there was absolutely no recovery issues. I had no soreness, no fatigue the next day, nothing. Probably could have run another one. I have cut the crossfit completely during this relay season so I think this is why. I am doing the 1x a week body by science thing. This is my 3rd week of it.

                          Today I did BBS workout with trainer. Wednesday I probably will do slow 7.5-moderate hills. Thursday I will do a hill repeat thing that is insane but good. Friday I will hike 6. Saturday 10 mile moderate trail race. I run. That is what I want to do.

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                          • #28
                            Okay, I had a good trail race this weekend-a 10 miler. I ate nothing special in order to prepare. Night before I did not even get my sweet potato in because they had gone bad. I had a bp coffee that morning--1 tbl MCT, 1tbl kerrygold vitamixed with my coffee. I ran nice and slow at the beginning because I am too old to get trampled in these things anymore. I hurt myself so many times this past year running trail. I line up at the back now and just have to deal with passing people.

                            So, I ran 1:42--which is good on trail. I used to run 10 min miles on trail, this, I think is just a bit over. I was 5th in my old age group out of 15. It was moderately hilly but the terrain was crappy. So, so many rocks. And it looped. And I fell on said rocks 2 times. But that is okay because nothing twisted and I am just obscenely bruised. And I did not rip my running skirt.

                            Race food: none. I did have a nuun in my water. 7 mile mark no fatigue just rocket fuel. I killed the last 3 miles. I wish it was a longer race just to see how far I could take it. I was flying through the woods. I did not wear my watch but I think I ran 9's the last 3 miles. I am good at skipping the down hills and I felt like I was just jumping them with springs on my montrails.

                            The great mystery is why last week was so crappy and this week was so good.

                            So I have my relay next weekend. I was knocked down to a doable 18 miles total. I am so glad. They gave the 20 mile set to someone else when I looked and saw 1 leg was 8 miles straight up the Smokey Mountains--I let the coach know that I was not the runner for that set of legs! I have done it before in the Blue Ridge, but with the uncertainty in my running right now, I did not want to let the team down with 12 minute uphill miles

                            I am sure my weight is slowing me down. I have gained muscle (everywhere) and fat (in my belly). My calves are hard as rocks but they are bigger than they were last year. I don't want them to get bigger! Am I the only person like this? I think eating the extra fat makes me build them bigger. Bigger than I need. I eat between 1500-2000 calories a day depending on what I am doing. I am sure I am getting a cortisol response (hence the belly fat). I know, I know chronic cardio.

                            I might back down on the fat and up my protein. I hate this. But it is a good time to do it because I am going in on a happy, grass fed cow.

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                            • #29
                              I was looking back after posting last night and thinking about what I haven't been eating since adding more fat. It is bone broth. I used to make it a few times a month. Maybe because of the summer or the fat, I don't know, I have gotten out of the habit of making it. I went to whole foods last night and got some bones! I paid more for the bones but I did not even want to wait a day. I probably have some mineral deficiency since I was having it regularly and i haven't in the last few months. So I will see if this helps--I have read that it helps with cellulite too.

                              Have any other runners upped the bone broth?

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                              • #30
                                Great job this weekend! Sorry you got banged up on the rocks. I was going through some old pics last week and ran across one taken at a trail race. That trail race is being repeated this weekend but I'm not ready for it. I could probably walk it, but it's an out and back course, VERY hard (uphill all the way out with one very technical hill that requires skill to go down). I wish I was in a state to be able to run it. I love running in the state park. I wish there were more trail races available around here.

                                Good luck at the relay next weekend. Is it a RAGNAR relay? I want to do one of those something fierce!!
                                Primal since March 5, 2012
                                SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



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