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I FINALLY had a decent half marathon running on FAT!

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  • wow 667! That is great. I agree with Jenry-walking is great. I sometimes time walk breaks at water stops-then I don't get it all over me and look foolish But mostly I do this on trails-it is kind of social at water stops on long trail runs and they usually have fruit and peanut (not so good) or almond butter.

    Sometimes still my last 2 miles of any longer distance is kind of pathetic. I get home, eat something, shower and put it in my running bank to cash in on the benefits later. They will be there collecting interest!

    We had great taco bowls last night-I love these because everyone eats them-the 3 kids and my husband and me. Everyone can go through the line and put whatever they want in their bowls. I made 3 lbs of taco meat so there is a ton for lunches this week. I browned the ground beef and I used trader joes taco seasoning-it is spicy. I used 2 packs even though weight wise it called for 3 but even for me it is too spicy. I do not drain the beef, I add 1 cup of beef broth and 2 cans of organic tomatoes with green chilies. It is pretty soupy but I let it simmer for 3 hours!!! It is good. I actually run the tomatoes through the vitamix and add onions because my kids freak out with chunks of stuff in the food. I hate that.

    Toppings-cheese for kids, sour cream, avocados, jalapenos, fresh salsa that I make. All the basics. I get organic corn tortillas for the kids to roll a few up if they want. Not a corn fan but I think it is better than flour on their systems.

    Then I scooped up 4 bowls in individual containers and topped them and they are in the fridge ready to go for adults this week. Sometimes my oldest will grab one for breakfast but that is rare.

    Being busy during the week and running so much, it is a relief to get in the door and have meat just ready to go. The quicker I get this in me the less likely I am to turn to something crappy to eat, like ice cream. I can't believe I haven't had any in so long!!! I even made my pumpkin ice cream for the kids and didn't eat it-it's not that bad but I did not want to trigger my cocaine like response to it. I use 1 can pumpkin, 1.5 cans coconut milk, I add about 1/4 cup coconut sugar and blend in the vita mix and then run through the ice cream machine--it is so good and really pumpkin-y.


    • Originally posted by relaygirl View Post
      Sometimes my IT band feels like it is vibrating-like a harp string. It is a very "nervy" feeling.
      That's what mine feels like today after my half yesterday. Very unhappy little IT band. Going to see doc for some ART tomorrow. That'll be painful, but I know it helps. It was so bad yesterday that it was actually PINCHING the nerve, and then it felt like my knee was going to collapse. It never did, but it sure stopped me in my tracks and had me cringing/almost crying at times. I can know bend my knee without too much argument from the connective tissues.

      Originally posted by meloroaster View Post
      @Jenry ...i am NOT really into changing things to more barefoot than the pacegloves/NB minimus. they are plenty flat and keep me and my feet happy. i really do think you just have to spend the time to figure out which model works best for you. like i said, plenty of middle of the road options that don't have to be Vibram. I think the main thing is to not just assume tons of cushion is a good thing...especially if you are prone to chronic injuries.
      I was looking at the Pace Glove this last weekend b/c I'm trying to find something a bit warmer for the winter months that won't be too far away from my vibrams. The pace gloves had the same amount of cushioning as the vibram - only difference is that the toes weren't separated. I'm hoping to find a clearanced pair online.

      Originally posted by Jenry Hennings View Post
      The British english for cemented road
      That's all we have to run on around here... even our bike paths are asphalt/cement.

      Originally posted by ssn679doc View Post
      I use a walk-run method to get through my long runs. Usually a 1 minute walk at each mile marker. Yesterday, I completed 16 miles... first time I have run that distance in nearly 15 years.
      Nice work!!!


      Yesterday, I ran a half marathon (13.3 miles total) on a banana. I got to the race and learned I had forgotten to eat breakfast so I swiped a banana from the post-race area. I gobbled it down quickly and ran the race with nothing else. I *did* use a Gu at mile 11 as my calves were threatening to cramp, but I probably could have made it without it - I was just being overly cautious.

      I did not drink much water during the race either. Only enough to wash down the sugary sticky mess that comes with Gu.

      I finished the race in 2:30, which is a typical time for me recently. My IT band is inflammed and on occasion it pinches a nerve, but I'm surviving. I can walk, so I'm happy. Top of right foot feels bruised, which is odd. I wonder if I had my vibrams strapped too tightly.

      I felt my body switch fuels at about mile 8 - it was interesting and so hard to explain without saying "I hit my second wind". It just that I felt depleted and then all of a sudden, I felt energized. Very strange but totally cool feeling. I experienced it once before on my first half this year at about mile 6.
      Primal since March 5, 2012
      SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)


      • so one more comment re. running fasted...i still don't get it.

        i guess for me the intent is always related to the run itself...long run (in which case walking is TOTALLY acceptable and permitted, especially if it means i can go longer - and it is also sometimes weirdly slow), tempo, sprints etc. i fuel appropriately.

        i guess i'm not sure if the end goal is weight loss or endurance or mental (i.e., getting through feeling tired, hungry, uncomfortable). i get the wanting to test things out (i am also a scientist!) but it sounds to me like to want two things: to eat healthy/paleo and run strong. so i would focus on that.

        there are fueling options that are much healthier than Gatorade/Guu gels etc. you can mix your own (i've tried this) with different ratios/combos of water, coconut water, honey/maple syrup, lime juice, himalayan sea salt. you can also try Vega Gels which are paleo and fueled by coconut oil, fruit and electrolytes. i've used Vegas on long runs and they are good as long as you are used to the coconut oil...cause as a friend found out, if your not used to it you might get poopie pants! (runners are not afraid of talking about this!).

        alternately, try just coconut water. there are some sugars/carbs but not a lot so you will remain basically fasted but at least prevent muscle fatigue and dehydration because the electrolyte balance is amazing. this is what i will use in the future for runs (not races) under 2h. for half marathon races i would use 1 Vega gel.

        but also i'll reiterate that if you are doing long runs to increase your endurance, slow it down, even walk sometimes. maybe even take a 5 min break in the middle. it's amazing how much your muscles can recover in little time and with just some water. but running totally fasted for long distances...i just don't get it.

        my 4 cents!


        • I never would have done it, except on two occasions for various reasons, I have honestly just forgotten to eat. One time before a 9 miler, I forgot to eat b/c I was busy getting my kids dressed and out the door to Grandma's and simply spaced it. Grandma isn't Paleo, so there were no quick food options at her house (at mine there were boiled eggs and precooked (by me) bacon that I could quickly eat but I was no longer at home and wasn't going back home to run so I just ran as is). It worked out nicely and as odd as it sounds, I felt better running fasted. And I wasn't hungry for like 3 hours afterwards either. It was very strange. It was probably one of my best long runs. I did stop mid run and drink some water and rest momentarily.

          Yesterday, I was rushed before my half and scared to death that I wasn't going to get to the race site early enough for packet pickup. This race was weird in that the half didn't start til 9, but packet pickup ended at 7:45. Before the half they had a 1 mile and 1/2 mile fun run for kids. I was running behind and worried about what I was forgetting to take with me and didn't even think about food. Energy-wise, that was a fantastic run. Both "fasted" runs have been awesome. \

          I think, but can't be certain, if you're running fasted, your body doesn't have anything else going on. No digestive stuff to work on so it can focus solely on providing the fuel it needs to run. It's not "multitasking" if you're fasted.

          I think it also helps your body learn to adapt to a low glucose state as well. If all it has for glucose is what's stored in the muscles, it has to find the fuel elsewhere. First you'll get hungry (as I did yesterday at mile 9) but eventually it'll switch over to burning fat. There might be more to it than this and I don't recommend going out for an 11 miler fasted. Fasting is something I think people should build up on - for instance, 3 miles fasted, then 5 miles fasted, then 7 and so forth... My experiences were literally accidents and nothing more, but proved to be mighty nice runs for me. And slow, of course. If you wanted to race fast, I'd suggest food before hand/during, whatever. But at my pace, I can run fasted and feel fine.
          Primal since March 5, 2012
          SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)


          • It's weird, days when I expend a ton of low level energy, eg my daily 2 hour run plus work at a hotel in catering (in the worst shoes for 8 hours.. Knee pain city!) i forget about hunger and could comfortable continue working all day fasted. But that would literally mean 1 meal a day after a 24 hour fast and I'm just not that sadistic..


            • Should mention a midday coffee helps a bunch!


              • coffee always helps screw adrenal fatigue, because I am not giving it up.

                About fasted or not fasted. I just want my fuel to be no big deal. Same with hydration. I want the run, no matter how long, to be seamless in my day; for it not to be an "event". I feel a body that is well fed for weeks ahead of time-whether intermittent fasting or not and well hydrated way before the race day-should race fine. I don't know how long it took me to get to that point, but I am there. Do I feel fatigue? yes. does that mean I need more food? Most of the time, no.

                I love the rocket fuel feeling. I totally get that every long race run now. I don't notice it during the day so much because I am running than driving to another doggy client, then running, etc. I think it was at the beginning of this thread that I said I had this--like I was flying through the woods. The skirt helps with that too.


                • This thread has been fun and helpful. So to give a little info about why I want to give running fasted a try. I ran 5 Rock and Roll Marathons in the 10 years that I took up serious running. My best time was 4:40 and you should have seen the stuff I was carrying to accomplish this. I was running on Clif Bloks while drinking Clif shot electrolytes. I sweat profusely when I am out on the road, which is probably due to my Mexican and Japanese heritage. I took it upon myself to stay hydrated and fed to accomplish this time. However, I felt like poop afterwards. All my training runs were great, clocking in a 4:14 22 miler. Averaging just under a 10 minute mile. Anyway, I stopped running the Marathon because it seemed to take a toll on me and I am running for longevity and don't want to damage my heart now that I am 51yo. MDA and PB got me to a point in my weight and health, due to eliminating grains and junk, that I haven't been at for 20+ years. I run Halfs and train with a running group for the first half of the year. Ultimately, I want to be able to run lighter and hopefully faster.

                  I ran 4.2 miles at lunch today while continuing to be fasted, having only one BP Coffee and one regular cup of coffee. I came back feeling good and hope I can get this fasted ability to transition into my long runs on Saturday. This Saturday, I will run 10 miles and will be fasted on BP coffee but I will carry a stinger gel and a bottle of water with nuun. For me, losing electrolytes through sweat is what kills my runs and I need to supplement during the run especially here in So Cal.
                  Thanks again for the tips and recipes! I had Spaghetti Squash with a meat and tomato sauce. I also cooked up some delicious bone broth.
                  Last edited by Hispanicgamer; 10-21-2013, 05:50 PM.


                  • Feeling good after a long run is important to me too. I hate getting done with a run and feeling like I need to sleep for hours (and sometimes doing just that). During my more recent training attempts (this year vs 2011), I feel energized after my long runs and rarely ever take a nap (only doing so if there's nothing else going on and both kids are napping). I credit the PB and Paleo for that... but the days I ran fasted I felt my most energized post run - and it's soooo nice to not have to carry a bunch of crap with me while I'm running. Hispanicgamer was right on in that regard. I still wear my belt for water b/c I don't like actually carrying things in my hands when I run.
                    Primal since March 5, 2012
                    SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)


                    • Ah ok i think i finally (kinda) get it. You want to run without being so dependent on all those 'products' and basically be more efficient in your fueling. AWESOME!

                      I totally agree that too many people get caught up in the marketing, especially when running marathons. I am like you and have kinda decided marathons aren't really for me (although i don't mind a slow run of marathon distance...esp if on trails) and am sticking with halfs. I think the best approach is like you said...self experiment. But i would tweak the goal to be more towards efficient running and fueling as opposed to fasted. although maybe fasted is a good starting point...then slow add a few small things if you feel you need something mid-run (like coconut water, honey/lime water etc). This way you can figure out what works best.

                      I remember at a sprint tri once (i.e., only 1.5h of activity) someone was eating a protein bar on the cycle. !??!?! There was lots of puking at the finish line! We don't NEED that much food in us for those shorter distances but people do get caught up in all the 'junk' and marketing. Gels can work wonders, but i've found them most useful when used appropriately. Otherwise they just make me feel sick.


                      • hispanicgamer- what about running fasted during the week and then eat normally Friday, Sat-just through the long run just while you are adjusting?

                        I feel great. I have no idea what I weigh but I am getting back into my clothes. Yay!!! WHY DO I DO THIS TO MYSELF??? I am done with it. I need to focus on how good I feel and how kick a** I am running and not get bogged down with the rest of life and turn to ice cream because it sucks. Its not that bad, but taking care of 3 kids is driving me insane.

                        It is going to be 30 on my overnight leg for the relay! I am bringing my fleece lined leggings. No rain in the forecast though and I know the colors are going to be awesome because it is pretty down here in Georgia.

                        I am really relaxing about food this time. I am not going to add but a few hundred K of balanced P, F and C over night-the rest I am going to keep as basic as possible. I am going to buy a big stainless thermos though to accommodate my coffee-when I can get it I am going to fill up the big thing to make sure I have 'enough'.


                        • I hope that you have a view despite it being overnight when you run. And by view, I mean looking down on a city full of lights or something pretty like that. 30 degrees is freaking cold!!

                          I hear ya on the diet issues. I veered way off course for a couple of weeks and have put 10 lbs back on as a result. *facepalm* Today's Day 3 back on track. We'll get back to where we were in no time flat.
                          Primal since March 5, 2012
                          SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)


                          • jenn-stick to your plan because in a week you will already feel better. My husband told me I looked thin today. I guess I diligently started back 5 weeks ago? And I have on one of my favorite running tops-extra tight, long sleeve chocolate brown with the pink heart on the sleeve. I am so happy. Although I am not going to be wearing the running tights without an extra long top

                            I've got my meatballs and boiled eggs! I will have chili and broccoli for breakfast before I leave. There is a whole food at the race start so I might go through the hot bar and cold bar there if I feel like spending the money.


                            • How do you all treat ITB syndrome? I have read quite a few articles on using foam rollers, ice, rest, NSAIDs, squats etc as methods to treat ITB syndrome. In my previous running "career" when I was on active duty, I was training for the same marathon I am training for now. I developed pain in the R knee, on the outside of the knee, and it got so bad that it was hard to walk. I stopped running, and never went back to it until last year.... Just curious if anyone has experienced ITB syndrome, and what they did to treat it.


                              • Originally posted by ssn679doc View Post
                                How do you all treat ITB syndrome? I have read quite a few articles on using foam rollers, ice, rest, NSAIDs, squats etc as methods to treat ITB syndrome. In my previous running "career" when I was on active duty, I was training for the same marathon I am training for now. I developed pain in the R knee, on the outside of the knee, and it got so bad that it was hard to walk. I stopped running, and never went back to it until last year.... Just curious if anyone has experienced ITB syndrome, and what they did to treat it.
                                As i type, I have a pain in my ITB, although it's not full blown. I personally walk around about 80% in bare feet/socks at home, but as I work in traditional smart shoes, I find more niggles. My answer? Change your shoes if possible. Carry on with what you're doing, as many of these running problems stem from weak lower limbs and feet so strengthening them would be logical. I run a lot, as previous posts would tell, but only get pain when i wear smart, un-natural shoes.
                                If by 'active duty' you mean military, and I can speak from experience when i say the boots and weight and heel striking marches are NOT helping shit!