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I don't get why you would need carbs for endurance running (except)

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  • #16
    thanks for all the replies tim, daemonized.

    So I got another quick question, if I workout, meaning lift mon tues wed. and do HIIT every other day except sunday, am I still not getting carbs if I eat things like broccoli, cauliflower, avocados, etc?? I mean, all those vegetables do have carbs, would those be enough to keep my glycogen stores at a good level, or would you recommend things like sweet potatoes, fruits, etc.?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by samiamm View Post

      So I got another quick question, if I workout, meaning lift mon tues wed. and do HIIT every other day except sunday, am I still not getting carbs if I eat things like broccoli, cauliflower, avocados, etc?? I mean, all those vegetables do have carbs, would those be enough to keep my glycogen stores at a good level, or would you recommend things like sweet potatoes, fruits, etc.?
      As mentioned in your other thread, there is no reason to be conducting your training schedule this way. World class athletes give themselves more rest time!

      Downtime is build time.
      http://stackingplates.com/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by samiamm View Post
        That sounds great creek!!
        You must be in pretty good shape, however, I think most people on here, even the "slow pace endurance runners" succeed a heart rate of 135-138. What do you think about your glycogen stores emptying if you're doing HIIT at about 90-95% of your heart rate?
        No, but I used to be in really good shape a decade or two back ;-) To know 20 years ago what I know now...

        The point to this kind of heart rate training is to stay at or just under your max aerobic heart rate. If you do, the speed will come. If not, you can still get fast - but you'll never get your heart rate down while doing it. If your heart rate is up, you're burning glycogen quickly. 90-95% of your max will annihilate glycogen stores in a matter of minutes - anywhere from 3 to 10 depending on which study you're reading. My "speed" day is typically tabatas, which I personally find more effective than longer HIIT sessions.

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        • #19
          This fella seems to do well as a fat burner. How a low carb diet affected my athletic performance (Part 4) | Peter Attia | The War on Insulin. I would say its not about just using fat or just using glucose. They are both fuels, but were a low carb or keto adapted person seems to thrive is that they have more metabolic flexibility. They can burn fat at higher levels of intensity and can conserve the glucose for when it is really needed. A carb burner is just not adept to using fat as fuel so is stuck shoveling in the carbs all race long.

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          • #20
            I don't know what you mean by "they can burn fat at higher levels of intensity" but there comes a certain point of intensity where no one can use fat as the fuel, and have to rely on carbs/glucose.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by samiamm View Post
              I don't know what you mean by "they can burn fat at higher levels of intensity" but there comes a certain point of intensity where no one can use fat as the fuel, and have to rely on carbs/glucose.
              If you don't know what I mean then I don't know what to tell you. That is about the simplest terms I can put it in for you. I would suggest you follow the link and look through the website to learn a bit more about how the metabolic process works in an athletic setting.

              Edit: That actually sounds a bit snarky, and not how I meant it. Just see Owly bellow for further explanation.
              Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-14-2012, 08:45 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                If you don't know what I mean then I don't know what to tell you. That is about the simplest terms I can put it in for you. I would suggest you follow the link and look through the website to learn a bit more about how the metabolic process works in an athletic setting.
                I think it was that your sentence was confusing and could be read as meaning the athlete would burn fat at the highest intensities (the aerobic cap), which of course does not make sense, nor does it reflect the content of your link. From what I understand from reading the post you linked, the author found that being ketoadapted allowed him to burn fat at higher levels of intensity than he would have been able to burn fat prior to ketoadaptation. This absolutely makes sense and is part of the theory of "train low, race high" that is used by some marathoners. The author still agrees that glycogen is needed at the very highest levels of exertion, which I think was where some readers of your statement got confused--I'm assuming this is what you were referring to as the times when glycogen is really needed.

                That would still support the idea that someone doing HIIT or other very intense activity is going to need those glycogen stores for peak performance, while it would appear that endurance athletes can train their bodies to run primarily on fat as fuel for their races and that ketoadaptation may help with this process and may improve athletic performance in the endurance context (although most of the top athletes who use "train low, race high" are carb loading before race day because the extra fuelling helps provide better speed when it counts).
                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                Owly's Journal

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Owly View Post
                  I think it was that your sentence was confusing and could be read as meaning the athlete would burn fat at the highest intensities (the aerobic cap).....
                  ....The author still agrees that glycogen is needed at the very highest levels of exertion, which I think was where some readers of your statement got confused--I'm assuming this is what you were referring to as the times when glycogen is really needed.
                  Sorry if I was not clear. As you say train low and race high....and, "the author found that being ketoadapted allowed him to burn fat at higher levels of intensity than he would have been able to burn fat prior to ketoadaptation". That was actually my main point. Of course you reach a threshold where you become dependent on glucose, so you assume correct. I just redirect all questions to your answer to explain what I meant . Of course I was relying heavily on people following the link and putting more of that together on their own rather than spelling it out so well myself.

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                  • #24
                    Heh, it probably helps that I live with a long-distance runner and have been reading way too much about race fuelling lately since I'm the primary cook and grocery shopper in the house.
                    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                    Owly's Journal

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