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  • Need Help/Advice

    Hello All-

    I'm posting today because I need your help. I've been Primal now for about 2 1/2 months and loved it at first but now I think its a lifestyle I cannot continue. I started Primal because I wanted to trim up and play at a leaner quicker weight. I play Lacrosse in college and in my senior year I wanted to do all that I could to play my best. I started primal over the summer when I had to get surgery and would not be able to workout at all for a month or so- didn't want to get fat so I worked hard at the diet. I lost weight and felt healthy, my carb intake was sub 50 grams most days. I got back to school about a month ago and was finally cleared to start playing again. Training consists of a 2 hour practice 3 times a week and a 1 hour lift three times a week so I'm doing something 6 days a week. When I started playing again I noticed my body was permanently sore and not recovering well at all. I initially believed it was because of the time off and just kept pushing through. Nothing changed though- my legs continued to have no explosion and felt sore all the time. I then tried adding more carbs, through veggies and fruits and tubers, no grains! This did nothing- I was eating 100-200 grams a day in carbs but my legs just won't get better. It's seriously affecting my perfomance as I'm someone who needs to be fast and strong daily. I'm considering falling back into conventional wisdom and just eating lean meats and protiens along with whole grains. Also, when I added more carbs in I lost some of my definition and muscle tone which is a concern of mine. I'm not really sure what to do, should I start eating whole grain or wild rice, quinoa, more fruits, veggies, how much of each? I need to get my legs back but I also want to maintian my leanness. I shop locally and eat only from my farmers market. Any advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Typical daily diet:
    Lunch Breakfast: Either eggs or chicken with lots of peppers, onions, mushroom, kale, and 2 sweet potatoes
    Dinner: Fish or steak or chicken with lots of veggies: squash, zucchini, carrots, peppers, and fruit like strawberries or melons

    Only eat 2 times a day generally

  • #2
    You're an athlete, not a caveman. You have different needs. This diet is NOT helping you. There is no reason why you should be restricting carbs with the amount of activity you are doing. Stop listening to the crap you hear on the internet and PLEASE listen to your body.
    .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
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    • #3
      I wish I had better answers for you, but I've only been at this 6 weeks and I still have good days and bad days. However, the thing that stands out to me from you list of food is that unless you are drowning it all in a bunch of butter, oil, or bacon grease, you appear to be severely short on the caloric needs of an early 20's male who's training 9 hours a week. I know that "more fat" is the answer that most people throw at things around here, but I *think* there is something to it (if and when I get my cycling groove back I'll let you know). The bottom line is that if you are going to restrict carbs, you must increase fat and protein to make up for at least most of the calories.

      Something that I'm doing that I'm hoping will help, but about which I can't really get a yea or nay from the forum, is a post workout recovery drink. Joe Friel actually advocates this in The Paleo Diet for Athletes, but his eating plan does differ from the The Primal Blueprint in some key ways, such as saying "animal fat is the devil" about a thousand times throughout the book (exaggeration perhaps). He said you can use a commerial recovery drink with glucose and whey protein or give a "choose your own adventure" formula for homemade recovery drinks made from whey protein powder, frozen fruit, and fruit juice, with the amounts and proportions depending on your weight, exercise time, and intensity. You might find it helpful to take a look at that book while bearing in mind that animal fat is probably not actually the devil.

      Whether or not bacon makes you fast, I am still determining that.

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      • #4
        what works for me

        For me ( i know experiences can vary) eat more fat has been the answer when I am struggling...I am a crossfitter and triathlete and have felt times of decreases energy in WODs and in general, so using www.fitday.com i punch in all my food for a day or two and see what percentage of saturated fats is returned. If i am not pushing above 60% sat. fat I know a difference in fuel. However when I get and keep this number high I am feeling and performing great. an example of breakfast for me is 4 eggs cooked in butter, a heaping handful carrots and mixed greens drizzled with extra virgin olive oil, a pile of chicken prob around 6 ounces or 8, and a heaping handful of nuts.

        your results may very but i have been tweaking with it and it still works for me.. i tried the added carbs also and noticed reduced tone and sleepy more often....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SlowPoke2320 View Post
          Joe Friel actually advocates this in The Paleo Diet for Athletes, but his eating plan does differ from the The Primal Blueprint in some key ways, such as saying "animal fat is the devil" about a thousand times throughout the book (exaggeration perhaps). .
          eh?? What the heck do they paelo's think our ancestors ate then? fresh air? Of COURSE they ate animal fat...

          i'm confused though rphlslv - Althetes can't eat Primal?

          hmmm..
          Scottish Sarah

          Join our UK/ROI Primal group here! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...php?groupid=67

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          • #6
            Originally posted by queen_sheba View Post
            eh?? What the heck do they paelo's think our ancestors ate then? fresh air? Of COURSE they ate animal fat...
            As I said, the statement was exaggerated, but throughout the book, he keeps beating "lean protein" to death, and does say saturated fat is bad. He advocates olive oil, etc. for fat content, and what comes out in the end sounds a lot more like the Zone Diet to me. He adds in more carbs, albeit the fruit and sweet potato variety, and the fat loses it's place on the main stage and therefore is only about 40% of the sample meal plan calories.

            Honestly, the book kind of annoyed me, besides some sudden unexpected fatigue issues, I'm quite happy with PB, and animal fat is the reason for this. The words "lean protein" bring back too many nasty diet-y memories, and I could actually feel the anger rising in my chest when I read them. Nevertheless, I think the book does have some information of value.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by queen_sheba View Post

              i'm confused though rphlslv - Althetes can't eat Primal?

              hmmm..
              Yeah, I went a bit too far with my post.

              "Training consists of a 2 hour practice 3 times a week and a 1 hour lift three times a week so I'm doing something 6 days a week. "

              100-200 grams of carbs is not enough. You have to eat right to fuel your activities. Eat more carbs. If you don't want to become a fatass, watch the calories, because that is all that matters anyway.

              Let me explain you why. Your body needs carbs for exercise. If you don't eat it, it will turn protein into glucose to make up for it. Therefore you will have less protein to repair muscles.

              I know people here claim that your body don't needs carbs and yada yada, but that's bullshit. Your body doesn't need carbs in the sense that it can make its own, sure, but that happens at the expense of protein.

              There is no reason a healthy person should fear carbs. Period. I just don't want to see people go down the same road I did.
              .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
              ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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              • #8
                no i agree...i am planning ahead for ski season and thinking i wouldn't be able to sustain 50-75g of carbs a day! but i don't want to eat all the grainy shite...what would you recommned?

                like plenty avocado, tomato, sweet potato, carby fruits?
                Scottish Sarah

                Join our UK/ROI Primal group here! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...php?groupid=67

                Give me a poke on facebook http://www.facebook.com/#!/pistepals
                **Remember to tell me your forum name so I know who you are!**

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                • #9
                  i could probably also get some of those custom You bars and trailmix made with a good carb/protein content....
                  Scottish Sarah

                  Join our UK/ROI Primal group here! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...php?groupid=67

                  Give me a poke on facebook http://www.facebook.com/#!/pistepals
                  **Remember to tell me your forum name so I know who you are!**

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                  • #10
                    I disagree. I am training for the Chicago marathon and eat around 80g carb/day and am hitting times I never dreamed I could. It's not necessary to eat high carb for endurance training - your body is very efficient at using fat for fuel as long as you're feeding it enough.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by profdjj View Post
                      I disagree. I am training for the Chicago marathon and eat around 80g carb/day and am hitting times I never dreamed I could. It's not necessary to eat high carb for endurance training - your body is very efficient at using fat for fuel as long as you're feeding it enough.
                      Not for anaerobic activity.
                      .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
                      ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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                      • #12
                        Mentioned earlier, but you may want to check out The Paleo Diet for Athletes book.

                        If you want to add in more carbs in the form of grains, I'd go with rice and stay away from wheat/gluten. Robb Wolf may also have some good athlete info on his site. A lot of his podcasts have questions from crossfitters and other athletes....
                        Heather and the hounds - Make a Fast Friend, Adopt a Greyhound!

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                        • #13
                          I think you're too low on calories and protein. Add a PWO protein shake with a good hit of carbs (ie sweet potato or squash ~ 50g c), 5-10g creatine monohydrate and 2-3 tsp. cod liver oil. I typically add 2-3 raw, pasteured eggs as well, but that's your choice.

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                          • #14
                            You can't eat your way out of under-recovery. You have to recover.

                            Surgery is a major physical stress.

                            Sounds to me like your body is telling you you are overdoing it.

                            Please remember that peak athletic fitness is NOT the same thing as vibrant Primal health. (Read Mark's intro about his marathon training days) Peak athletic fitness is just this side of overtraining, injury, and illness.

                            You had a summer off after a significant bodily injury. Surgery is a wound. Your body eats up nutrients healing that wound.

                            Then you jumped in to training. You are probably underrecoverd.

                            Your body likely needs vitamin C, collagen (protein), Vit. D, fatty acids. Try bone broths!

                            Susie

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                            • #15
                              Eat more food!

                              You are doing a lot of activity. As previous posts stated, you do not need to up your carbs as much as you need to fuel your body more. Eat more times a day, eat more food in a sitting - do what you can to just fuel up your body. Also make sure you get plenty of rest in between.

                              I went through a similar phase - I broke my collar bone this spring playing Rugby. When I started lifting/running again, I was running out of steam fast. It wasn't until I cranked up my food intake that I regained my previous fitness - and surpassed it. I am now much stronger, and faster, leaner, without straying from primal at all.
                              Last edited by doghead; 10-05-2010, 09:51 AM.
                              - If it was cute and cuddly at some point, eat it. Ignore everything else. -

                              - Food is first, and foremost, nothing more than fuel. -

                              - The body is animal. The mind, however, is not. -

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